Honda

[margrace]

Of course they are guaranteeing that there will be no lose of jobs. The only guaranteed jobs at Honda of course are Administration staff. All people who work on the lines are contract workers and when your contract is up you have to wait for them to call you back. No lose of jobs means that they just won't call them back when their contract is up.

And just ask around there are some people right now waiting to renew their contract.

[August1991]

Of course they are guaranteeing that there will be no lose of jobs. The only guaranteed jobs at Honda of course are Administration staff. All people who work on the lines are contract workers and when your contract is up you have to wait for them to call you back. No lose of jobs means that they just won't call them back when their contract is up.

And just ask around there are some people right now waiting to renew their contract.

Why should consumers have to pay a higher price for a car so that some employees receive a higher salary?

And what about the people in Alabama who will get jobs? Don't they count?

[scribblet]

I think it is only for some pickups, but it's their option.

Not sure but I did read that workers are hired on contract first, with options for full time later if they work out. That is sound policy as it is easier to not renew a contract then fire someone.

[AngusThermopyle]

Not sure but I did read that workers are hired on contract first, with options for full time later if they work out. That is sound policy as it is easier to not renew a contract then fire someone.

100% correct. I worked at Honda Alliston for a few years before moving out west. I hated the job but I have to give Honda top marks for treating their workers in an excellent fashion.

By the way, which truck plant and where is it located? If its the Alliston plant then its no big deal. They also make the mini van and the civic in Alliston. Considering that they're just finishing up the new engine plant in Alliston that will more than make up for the loss of the truck division.

Edited March 13, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[Topaz]

Why should consumers have to pay a higher price for a car so that some employees receive a higher salary?

And what about the people in Alabama who will get jobs? Don't they count?

Buzz has said over and over again, the price of a car is only 4% by the effect of wage increases. As you also now, the CEO's still are making wage profits themselves and are not hurting. By the time the UAW and CAW get done with their talks with the Big 3 their wages will be 12-14 hrly and they will be giving up more to keep their jobs which is always threaten by the companies. Its only a matter of time before you see all companies tell employees, you are going to make half as much as you make now or we will move to India or China. This will have a chain reaction when people start losing their homes because of cut in pay, can't make their bills and in the community will lose their tax dollars. The manufacturing sector is going to be in big trouble and the Feds don't seem to care much.

[oreodontist]

Buzz has said over and over again, the price of a car is only 4% by the effect of wage increases. As you also now, the CEO's still are making wage profits themselves and are not hurting. By the time the UAW and CAW get done with their talks with the Big 3 their wages will be 12-14 hrly and they will be giving up more to keep their jobs which is always threaten by the companies. Its only a matter of time before you see all companies tell employees, you are going to make half as much as you make now or we will move to India or China. This will have a chain reaction when people start losing their homes because of cut in pay, can't make their bills and in the community will lose their tax dollars. The manufacturing sector is going to be in big trouble and the Feds don't seem to care much.

What do you want the Feds to do exactly?

As for Buzz's comment , read what you wrote. 'only 4% of effect of wage increase'....that's like saying if you were standing in water over your head then 4% more doesn't matter. What matters isn't the 4% but the cost of labour now...it's too high to compete. 4% more is just another nail in the coffin.

Also, why do people wait for their situation to worsen? If things are dire I hope intelligent self-responsible humans are looking NOW at new careers or relocating. If as you said 'it's just a matter of time' ,then plan for it. something tells me, however, it will be all tears instead of taking the bull by the horns and noving on in life.

[guyser]

Of course they are guaranteeing that there will be no lose of jobs. The only guaranteed jobs at Honda of course are Administration staff. All people who work on the lines are contract workers and when your contract is up you have to wait for them to call you back. No lose of jobs means that they just won't call them back when their contract is up.

And just ask around there are some people right now waiting to renew their contract.

Should have stuck around and listened to the rest of the story, it was reported that Honda will expand the other lines, Civic and Acura to compensate.

The Alabama plant already makes other trucks/SUV for Honda.

[M.Dancer]

Should have stuck around and listened to the rest of the story, it was reported that Honda will expand the other lines, Civic and Acura to compensate.

The Alabama plant already makes other trucks/SUV for Honda.

What point would she have if she did that?

[guyser]

What point would she have if she did that?

Silly me....You are right

[madmax]

Why should consumers have to pay a higher price for a car so that some employees receive a higher salary?

The Price of the Car is dictated by the market. Not the cost to produce. You can produce a vehicle and sell it at a profit or a loss, but the sale of the vehicle is driven by demand.

No matter how much non value added salaried staff burden the overall cost in operations, they are not taking huge paycuts, nor is this a consideration when the operations choose to relocate. IF plants relocate, suppliers follow...it is just a fact, and their are many reasons behind choosing a location, and politics/money play a significant role in the decision.

Vehicles made in other juridictions often sell their automotive goods for as much or more then the automotive goods made here. Vehicles have been made here for decades upon decades, however, even now we see Toyota hesitating, because of other market conditions which dwarf the labour costs of the Salaried and Contract Employees.

Also

Any savings that go into obtaining better prices from tier one suppliers are not passed on to the consumer, but go into the coffers of the Manufacturer.

Dealers are not making alot of money from selling the car above their wholesale price, regardless of manufacturer and production origin. The way Auto Dealerships make their money today is in the financial upselling of various warranty packages/tire protections/ etc.

The only time dealers are given opportunities to make money off the vehicles, is when the manufacturer is overloaded with a model and needs to move it, and their is a pecking order for this.

What I am saying to you, August 1991 is that when the time comes when people are not able to pay

$20,000 to $70,000 for an automobile, could you possibly see prices drop. But this is unlikely, nor would it be good for dealers or manufacturers regardless of origin.

However, with the move to hybrids, the cars will be in demand and prices will rise as long as people are willing to pay for it. Balancing this out will be technological advancements that lower the costs to produce these cars.

Unfortuneately, not everything works as good as an electronics model, which has held true (IMHO) since edison.

Such as a computer, where in months to a years time you can buy a new computer with more power and cheaper then the one you currently purchased.

There are more factors involved in Automotive Manufacturing and more reasons, that you won't receive a price advantage because of a change in the wages of an employees.

Next Posting.....

Quality, Marketing, and the changing consumer

[madmax]

100% correct. I worked at Honda Alliston for a few years before moving out west. I hated the job but I have to give Honda top marks for treating their workers in an excellent fashion.

Why did you leave Honda? Was it that bad of a job? Or just better opportunities in the West?

[AngusThermopyle]

I hated working in a factory with limited opportunities for advancement and work that required little to no physical or mental skills. Out west here I have a management position with a great deal of opportunities and a requirement to think and problem solve on the fly. I also like being less than an hour away from the mountains, not to mention the fact that the people in this small town are far more down to earth and practical than the majority of the people I had contact with in Ontario.

Almost forgot to mention. It was a great way to put distance between myself and my ex.

Edited March 13, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[fellowtraveller]

What do you want the Feds to do exactly?

Charge tariffs and duites on all vehicles that do not manufacture those vehicles in Canada and ship their profits offshore, outside North America.

Like Japan does to our auto manufacturers.

[M.Dancer]

Charge tariffs and duites on all vehicles that do not manufacture those vehicles in Canada and ship their profits offshore, outside North America.

Like Japan does to our auto manufacturers.

I will tell you what effect that will have. If they can't make money here, they won't try to. People will still buy Hondas and Toyotas because they want them, just as people still but Mercs and BMWs....and instead of giving a few thousand Canadians high paying jobs, they will be unemployed.

[Topaz]

What do you want the Feds to do exactly?  As for Buzz's comment , read what you wrote.  'only 4% of effect of wage increase'....that's like saying if you were standing in water over your head then 4% more doesn't matter.  What matters isn't the 4% but the cost of labour now...it's too high to compete.  4% more is just another nail in the coffin. Also, why do people wait for their situation to worsen? If things are dire I hope intelligent self-responsible humans are looking NOW at new careers or relocating.  If as you said 'it's just a matter of time' ,then plan for it.  something tells me, however, it will be all tears instead of taking the bull by the horns and noving on in life.

OK, let redo the answer. Its only 4% of the price of the car. If you think its all wages upping the price then the price should fall because the wages are going to be only half of what they make now. IF the Feds brought back the Auto Pact and  made it mandatory to make them here then Canada would have more jobs in the auto sector. Let me ask something, would you work for .45cent a hour?? How low should peoples wages be?? In Canada, we do make good quality auto, better than the US.

[oreodontist]

Charge tariffs and duites on all vehicles that do not manufacture those vehicles in Canada and ship their profits offshore, outside North America.

Like Japan does to our auto manufacturers.

Sorry, I live in Alberta and have no intention of paying more for a car so that unions can continue to milk the auto companies in Ontario. I'll buy the car that is the best value forthe dollar whether it is built in Canada (hopefully) or in Timbuctu.

[scribblet]

100% correct. I worked at Honda Alliston for a few years before moving out west. I hated the job but I have to give Honda top marks for treating their workers in an excellent fashion.

By the way, which truck plant and where is it located? If its the Alliston plant then its no big deal. They also make the mini van and the civic in Alliston. Considering that they're just finishing up the new engine plant in Alliston that will more than make up for the loss of the truck division.

It is the Alliston, but they will now raise production of Civic sedans.

[scribblet]

Sorry, I live in Alberta and have no intention of paying more for a car so that unions can continue to milk the auto companies in Ontario. I'll buy the car that is the best value forthe dollar whether it is built in Canada (hopefully) or in Timbuctu.

I'm not in favour of unions milking the employers, which I think does happen with the auto unions. Not that I think management isn't overpaid either, but I've heard some of the stuff that goes on in those union plants, and the amount of goofing off etc. by employees.

I did hear that GM is trying to buy out most of it's employees so that they too can re-hire people on contract like Honda does. If this would result in a much lower priced vehicle, which would free up more money for the rest of us poor slobs, I might think it okay - but would it lower the prices?

There has to a happy medium some where between the overpaid auto union workers and the soon to be low end non union workers.....

[Topaz]

I'm not in favour of unions milking the employers, which I think does happen with the auto unions. Not that I think management isn't overpaid either, but I've heard some of the stuff that goes on in those union plants, and the amount of goofing off etc. by employees.

I did hear that GM is trying to buy out most of it's employees so that they too can re-hire people on contract like Honda does. If this would result in a much lower priced vehicle, which would free up more money for the rest of us poor slobs, I might think it okay - but would it lower the prices?

There has to a happy medium some where between the overpaid auto union workers and the soon to be low end non union workers.....

You may get a cheaper price car and you'll get what you paid for! Ever had a car made in Mexico? A friend of ours did, the car started to fall apart after a year! Were do you guys get this "overpaid" thinking? How much are people making out in Alberta or Saskatchewan in the oil industry?

[JaysFan]

Charge tariffs and duites on all vehicles that do not manufacture those vehicles in Canada and ship their profits offshore, outside North America.

Like Japan does to our auto manufacturers.

Here here!

Unfortunately though, the current government doesn't have the spine to do something like that.

[oreodontist]

You may get a cheaper price car and you'll get what you paid for! Ever had a car made in Mexico? A friend of ours did, the car started to fall apart after a year! Were do you guys get this "overpaid" thinking? How much are people making out in Alberta or Saskatchewan in the oil industry?

We're making a bundle. It's called free enterprise. Not based on tariffs. Lots of free market jobs for the hard working ... And yes, I would buy a car made in Mexico or elsewhere if it's better value for the dollar.

[August1991]

The Price of the Car is dictated by the market. Not the cost to produce. You can produce a vehicle and sell it at a profit or a loss, but the sale of the vehicle is driven by demand.

...

What I am saying to you, August 1991 is that when the time comes when people are not able to pay

$20,000 to $70,000 for an automobile, could you possibly see prices drop.

Blah, blah, blah.

Madmax, I suspect that almost everyone posting here has shopped around for a car at least once in their life. And they've sought the best deal - lowest price, best car. There are more forums on the Internet about cars and car prices than about politics.

Consumers shopping for a car is just the start of the process. All the way along the chain you'll find the same story of sharp eyes looking for a deal. If Toyota wants to move some production to Alabama, it's because they found a better deal.

Charge tariffs and duites on all vehicles that do not manufacture those vehicles in Canada and ship their profits offshore, outside North America. Like Japan does to our auto manufacturers.

If your friend jumps off a cliff, would you jump off a cliff too?

Sorry, I live in Alberta and have no intention of paying more for a car so that unions can continue to milk the auto companies in Ontario. I'll buy the car that is the best value forthe dollar whether it is built in Canada (hopefully) or in Timbuctu.

Oreodontist not only gets it right for himself, he gets it right for Canada too.

If the government forces people to buy Canadian made cars simply because they are Canadian, or taxes people to subsidize Canadian made cars, then the government is simply encouraging shoddy work. That, in the long run, is not good for Canada.

If you want to buy a Canadian made car, then by all means go ahead and do so. But I fail to see why you should have the right to force me or anyone else to also buy a Canadian car if I don't want to.

[blueblood]

You may get a cheaper price car and you'll get what you paid for! Ever had a car made in Mexico? A friend of ours did, the car started to fall apart after a year! Were do you guys get this "overpaid" thinking? How much are people making out in Alberta or Saskatchewan in the oil industry?

I have had the ultimate displeasure in owning Canadian made farm machinery from a Canadian company. It is low quality, high maintenance, crap. Union made to boot. That was the last time I bought from them, unfortunately that company went out of business. God help the big 3 if Toyota makes a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton diesel.

[M.Dancer]

You may get a cheaper price car and you'll get what you paid for! Ever had a car made in Mexico?

Yes. Our Sunfire was partially assembled in Mexico. It is on it's 10 year. No rust and no problem with it what so ever.

[White Doors]

I'm quite happy with my GM vehicles. Nothing against the imports, I just like GM's better.