Canada's need for more diversified trade

[UShaditComing]

As the US becomes more and more an outlaw country it is essential that Canada starts diversiying it's foreign trade practices to other countries and away from the US. We Canadians should all know how we have been blackmailed by the US on softwood lumber and on beef by the US. We need to be able to say no to their future wars without having to suffer financially. Chretien and Martin had at least a bit of will to fight back but Harper is totally in tune with US wars and will not even try to resist, mainly because of the loss of trade is not worth taking the moral high ground for him.

The entire world is moving away from the US now and watching the declining US dollar versus the Euro is evidence that the US is in big trouble because of it's warring stance. A stance which is necessary for the US because it needs to lay claim of the resources of other countries simply because it can't pay for them any more. And Canada's dollar continues to follow the dismal decline of the USD because we are so closely linked with the US. When the US decides to go to war with either Iran or Venezuela for their oil, or whatever country they decide to bomb into submission, we need to be able to just say NO without suffering more trade sanctions.

There was a small move perceivable when the US played hardball the last time but it's not enough. Canadian manufacturers and produceres for foreign markets are quite aware of the problem because they know that the will of the Canadian people can not be changed quickly by Harper to go along with US aggression, soon enough to avoid another financial catastrophe. It is now that we need to move away from the US quickly and into more European markets as well as Asian markets and free markets throughout the world. Obama and a Dem congress in the US will not make the situation any better and traditionally it should only make it worse if past practices are followed.

And if we don't then we will be forced to follow and support the US wars and empire building and that could have very disasterous effects for Canada. Those oppressed by the US throughout the world will come to see Canada as just an extension of the US when US payback time comes.

Edited March 10, 2008 by UShaditComing

[August1991]

Quite apart from why we would want to do this, how do you suggest we achieve it? Should the federal government force Canadians to refuse a good deal with an American and instead choose to deal on worse terms with a different foreigner? What would this accomplish?

Canada doesn't trade with the US. Individual Canadians trade with individual Americans. Trade is an affair of individuals, not countries.

USHiC, if you want to trade less with Americans, you are welcome to go ahead and trade elsewhere. But I fail to see why you should have the right to forbid me or anyone else from trading with Americans if I choose to.

It is now that we need to move away from the US quickly and into more European markets as well as Asian markets and free markets throughout the world. Obama and a Dem congress in the US will not make the situation any better and traditionally it should only make it worse if past practices are followed.

Canadian buyers and sellers regularly deal in all these markets. Why should someone like you have the right to tell them where they can deal?

[UShaditComing]

Quite apart from why we would want to do this, how do you suggest we achieve it? Should the federal government force Canadians to refuse a good deal with an American and instead choose to deal on worse terms with a different foreigner? What would this accomplish?

Canada doesn't trade with the US. Individual Canadians trade with individual Americans. Trade is an affair of individuals, not countries.

USHiC, if you want to trade less with Americans, you are welcome to go ahead and trade elsewhere. But I fail to see why you should have the right to forbid me or anyone else from trading with Americans if I choose to.

Canadian buyers and sellers regularly deal in all these markets. Why should someone like you have the right to tell them where they can deal?

Nobody is trying to tell you what to do or trying to force you to do something. The whole idea is for businesses who trade with the US to start to wise up and look out for their interests especially and hence Canada's interests by trying to diversify to other trading partners. That way when the US wants us to sign on to another of their wars and we don't want to, the US punishment will be less effective.

get it now silly boy?

Or just start to play hardball with them on our oil but that takes more guts than Harper will ever have. Diversified trade will work and was shown to be effective for some companies after the last trade scuffle with the US because some manufacturers did look to more favourable places in Europe.

Edited March 10, 2008 by UShaditComing

[guyser]

Why should someone like you have the right to tell them where they can deal?

Because he apparently thinks he is smarter than the rest of us.

He may think so....

[guyser]

See....?

Nobody is trying to tell you what to do or trying to force you to do something. The whole idea is for businesses who trade with the US to start to wise up and look out for their interests especially and hence Canada's interests by trying to diversify to other trading partners.

get it now silly boy?

Of course, how brilliant. No executive would have pondered other markets outside the US.

Speaking of wising up huh? ...silly boy.....

[Leafless]

See....?

Of course, how brilliant. No executive would have pondered other markets outside the US.

Certaintly seems that way though, doesn't it?

Speaking of wising up huh? ...silly boy.....

Maybe there is nothing to wise up to, nothing, silly boy.

Unless we can pawn off the entire country as the world's most wanted buffer zone.

[August1991]

Nobody is trying to tell you what to do or trying to force you to do something. The whole idea is for businesses who trade with the US to start to wise up and look out for their interests especially and hence Canada's interests by trying to diversify to other trading partners. That way when the US wants us to sign on to another of their wars and we don't want to, the US punishment will be less effective.

get it now silly boy?

Or just start to play hardball with them on our oil but that takes more guts than Harper will ever have. Diversified trade will work and was shown to be effective for some companies after the last trade scuffle with the US because some manufacturers did look to more favourable places in Europe.

Uh, nobody is telling anyone what to do?

As guyser has noted above, that's exactly what you are doing in your OP. You want to stop a Canadian making an otherwise good deal with an American and force them to deal elsewhere. For some reason, you seem to think that this will make Canada better off.

I reckon that Canadians are better placed to judge what deal is best for themselves. If Canadians want to diversify, that's their own choice and they are best placed to diversify their own way. It is schemes such as yours that impoverish a country. Thank God you have no power.

Edited March 10, 2008 by August1991

[UShaditComing]

Of course most countries are going to look to the Us first because it's our closest market. But the whole point of this thread, which flies over everyone's head is that the Us is going to have some more wars and if we don't play war withe them we will be looking at more dirty tricks of the sort we saw with softwood lumber. Therefor it makes sense for Canadian industry to look further afielf for trading partners which won't try to play dirty tricks.

As time goes on US manufacturing and production of all goods will become more and more unviable and they will also be asking for more breaks in cross border trade with Canada and all their trading partners. China has played it smart and even though the US is their biggest trading partner, the US trade deficit with China is huge and therefore China has the upper hand. China also has other trading partners and has maintained a position wherein it could fight back against the US effectively.

For further evidence of the US being in dire straits look at the situation they have gotten themselves into with illegal aliens from Mexico. Nobody has a solution to the problem because it's a necessary problem. US agriculture alone is not viable without cheap Mexican labour and so they know that they can't send them back to Mexico or they would sink a quarter or more of their economy.

In a nutshell, the American way is not working and for an understanding of why it's not working read Will Hutton's, A Declaration of Interdependence.

Edited March 11, 2008 by UShaditComing

[bush_cheney2004]

Chretien and Martin had at least a bit of will to fight back but Harper is totally in tune with US wars and will not even try to resist, mainly because of the loss of trade is not worth taking the moral high ground for him.

Of course....all those CF-18 attack sorties in 1991 and 1999 were by rogue pilots operating on their own. Ditto JTF-2. LOL!

The entire world is moving away from the US now and watching the declining US dollar versus the Euro is evidence that the US is in big trouble because of it's warring stance.

No...investment in America has never been stronger. Auto plants are popping up in right to work states.

A stance which is necessary for the US because it needs to lay claim of the resources of other countries simply because it can't pay for them any more. And Canada's dollar continues to follow the dismal decline of the USD because we are so closely linked with the US.

The Canadian dollar reflects a rising valuation against the falling US dollar...pay attention!

It is now that we need to move away from the US quickly and into more European markets as well as Asian markets and free markets throughout the world. Obama and a Dem congress in the US will not make the situation any better and traditionally it should only make it worse if past practices are followed.

Check out Canadian mining interests througout the world....I wonder what Canada needs all that ore for if not a market that will consume it?

And if we don't then we will be forced to follow and support the US wars and empire building and that could have very disasterous effects for Canada. Those oppressed by the US throughout the world will come to see Canada as just an extension of the US when US payback time comes.

Too late....if Canada's economic experience has been a disaster, then you don't know what success is.

[UShaditComing]

The Canadian dollar reflects a rising valuation against the falling US dollar...pay attention!

Actually it's you who is not paying attention, or maybe you just don't understand. The CAD reached parity with the USD way back in Sept 07 and has been bouncing back and forth from going 10 cents up to being down about 6 ceents and is currently close to par. While the USD against the Euro has gone from $1.40 to $1.54 over the same time period. If you live in the land of the gun you would do well to buy Euros. Isn't that nice of me to give you financial advice for free!

Me pay attention, you clown?

I predict the Euro to be $2.00 against the USD by the end of the year and if you don't think that's going to show the writing on the wall for the US economy then you really are out of touch with reality.

Edited March 11, 2008 by UShaditComing

[bush_cheney2004]

Me pay attention, you clown?

True...I don't think you can afford to even pay attention. Parity is the first step up sonny.....keep those oil prices rising..ya hear!

[M.Dancer]

Of course most countries are going to look to the Us first because it's our closest market.

Countries look to the US because they are our closest trading partner?

Why would that have any impact on US trade with other nations?

The more I read of you the more I think you are deep over your head...

[rover1]

I think that we would do well to consider trading with others based on commercial considerations and not political ones.

My observation is that trying to inject moral issues into trade has not been successful and leads to little but frustration.

I may or may not approve of some political measure taken by the US or Zimbabwe or some other, but they are unlikely to listen to me, and I'm not sure that they should. If they want my goods, and they can pay, it is good enough. Not that I have no views on political matters, it just that, for the main part, linking trade to these things doesn't work and leads only to bad feelings.

There may be some specific issue, from time to time, where a country wishes to state it's opinion in this way, but they should be aware that it is unlikely to influence the situation. and there is a cost involved. Such interventions should be infrequent, and they are as likely as not to affect the intervener negatively.

[jdobbin]

...it is essential that Canada starts diversiying it's foreign trade practices to other countries and away from the US.

I agree that the Canadian government needs to look at other export markets. Now that forces are mounting to re-open NAFTA, it is important for the government to lead new trade missions to other countries.

It won't be easy not will it occur without controversy.

More importantly, the federal government should lead an internal trade discussion that eliminates barriers between provinces and assists with internal trade. For example, the federal government should make the Trans-Canada Highway one of it main responsibilities for linking east and west. Likewise, the feds would be very helpful in funding an east-west power grid.

Lots of jobs would be created by such work and long term private business growth would result.

Edited March 11, 2008 by jdobbin

[UShaditComing]

I think that we would do well to consider trading with others based on commercial considerations and not political ones.

My observation is that trying to inject moral issues into trade has not been successful and leads to little but frustration.

I may or may not approve of some political measure taken by the US or Zimbabwe or some other, but they are unlikely to listen to me, and I'm not sure that they should. If they want my goods, and they can pay, it is good enough. Not that I have no views on political matters, it just that, for the main part, linking trade to these things doesn't work and leads only to bad feelings.

There may be some specific issue, from time to time, where a country wishes to state it's opinion in this way, but they should be aware that it is unlikely to influence the situation. and there is a cost involved. Such interventions should be infrequent, and they are as likely as not to affect the intervener negatively.

Here's one example of how I see it rover. The Us had to cheat on softwood lumber and finally after having decision after decision go against them in the courts and not living up to the decisions, they were able to negotiate a deal which was more favourable to them because Harper's gang caved to them. In the meantime the B.C.softwood lumber industry started to die because of the US's unfair trade practices which were proven to be unfair. And now that they have won the fight by not holding up their end of the NAFTA agreement, B.C. is exporting raw logs to be manufactured in the US. And there went B.C.'s sawmill jobs. Those cutting the logs in the forest have no scruples of course and only are interested in making money on the logs. In many cases the timber rights are owned by individuals from the US anyway.

You're damn right Nafta needs to be renegotiated!

[August1991]

Here's one example of how I see it rover. The Us had to cheat on softwood lumber and finally after having decision after decision go against them in the courts and not living up to the decisions, they were able to negotiate a deal which was more favourable to them because Harper's gang caved to them.

I don't understand you, USHIC.

The US government made it difficult for Americans to buy Canadian lumber. That is precisely what you want in your OP. There, you suggest that Canadians should diversify and trade with people in other countries and not sell to or buy from Americans.

In effect, the US government was doing what you want to do: stop or diminish trade between Canadians and Americans.

According to your logic, we should applaud the Bush Administration for the softwood lumber dispute and encourage more such disputes.

Edited March 12, 2008 by August1991

[Shady]

Personally, I think UShaditComing should diversify his forum posting. It would be wise for him to post in overseas forums.

[UShaditComing]

Personally, I think UShaditComing should diversify his forum posting. It would be wise for him to post in overseas forums.

I'll consider that advice shady. The opposition on the two or three that I already own completely is a little lacking for sure.