Argus Posted March 9, 2008 Report Posted March 9, 2008 Just like Christians. Go figure. It has been centuries since people tried to spread Christianity by the sword. Muslims have never given up that habit, and in fact, are growing more violent, and less tolerant of others. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 9, 2008 Report Posted March 9, 2008 Canada is a multi-cultural country that includes Muslims. What I said is, Canada should promote the immigration of a specific group of Muslim people who seem to be particularily talented at integrating with others. Compared to other Muslims, you mean. How about we just don't bring in Muslims at all? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted March 9, 2008 Author Report Posted March 9, 2008 Compared to other Muslims, you mean. Yes, compared to some Muslims who have already immigrated here, and there are other immigrants who could also benefit from exposure to tolerance. I envision Hui immigrants one day working for the various government immigration departments and agencies especially those that focus on integration. How about we just don't bring in Muslims at all? That's not a very realistic scenario and besides it just wouldn't be fair. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Argus Posted March 9, 2008 Report Posted March 9, 2008 Yes, compared to some Muslims who have already immigrated here, and there are other immigrants who could also benefit from exposure to tolerance. I envision Hui immigrants one day working for the various government immigration departments and agencies especially those that focus on integration. That's not a very realistic scenario and besides it just wouldn't be fair. I'm not interested in what's fair for foreigners. I only care what's best for Canada. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted March 9, 2008 Author Report Posted March 9, 2008 I only care what's best for Canada. We're on the same page then. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
MontyBurns Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 I dont understand why multiculturalists want to cater to a bunch of foreigners they know nothing about. What is wrong with western culture that needs to be replaced? Western culture/religion/traditions are as valid as any other cultures. It's almost like the left hates itself and wants to bring about western society's downfall. Quote "From my cold dead hands." Charlton Heston
Pliny Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 I'm not interested in what's fair for foreigners. I only care what's best for Canada. Originally posted by eyeball:We're on the same page then. I don't think so, eyeball but I do sense some sarcasm in your reply as though you know full well you aren't. Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
kuzadd Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 eyeball: interesting article, unfortunately I could not read it all. It was certainly hopeful and shows how bridges can be built between humans as opposed to burnt. We must never let a failure of creativity and imagination, come between the opportunities to build tolerant societies for us all. That applies to the people here, who demonstrate plenty of intolerance of their fellow human beings. One common ground that Islam and Christianity have is the worship of Jesus as a deity, this should certainly have appeal to each of the groups, unfortunately the so called "christians" display raging intolerance towards the religion of Islam, preferring to disparage it as opposed to seeing the numerous similarities. Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
Leafless Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 I dont understand why multiculturalists want to cater to a bunch of foreigners they know nothing about. What is wrong with western culture that needs to be replaced? Western culture/religion/traditions are as valid as any other cultures. It's almost like the left hates itself and wants to bring about western society's downfall. What multiculturist are you taking about as multiculturalism is derived from biculturalism and is a gift from Trudeau, primarily to force Quebec ideologies into Canadian society. Official multiculturalism is working like a cancer on Western culture/religion/traditions and it seems all national federal political parties are content with bringing down majority current Canadian Western beliefs. We need a government that will STAND UP FOR MAJORITY WESTERN CANADIAN CULTURAL BELIEFS or create one that will. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Little does anyone here realize that Canada is a multicultural country, and has been since it's birth. Multiculturism is part of Canadian Culture. End of thread. Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Little does anyone here realize that Canada is a multicultural country, and has been since it's birth.Multiculturism is part of Canadian Culture. End of thread. Yes, and no! We've always had a number of cultures in the country. We never had OFFICIAL multiculturalism until the Liberals dreamed it up! There is a HUGE difference! If you're going to cite polls or give opinion about how Canadians feel towards multiculturalism, if you're not precise then you are misleading. It has been my experience that Canadians in general are extremely tolerant of different cultures, as long as they do not conflict with core Canadian beliefs, such as the rights of women and the separation of church and state. They tend to get very INTOLERANT of official multiculturalism, which is a politically correct vehicle to use tax money as a bribe for photo-ops and election votes. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
kengs333 Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 One common ground that Islam and Christianity have is the worship of Jesus as a deity, this should certainly have appeal to each of the groups, unfortunately the so called "christians" display raging intolerance towards the religion of Islam, preferring to disparage it as opposed to seeing the numerous similarities. Um, no. If Muslims recognized Jesus for what he was, then they wouldn't be Muslims. Christ teaches about false prophecy, and that's what Islam is founded on. No different than Mormonism. I'm not sure exactly how one can deem such a factual assertion "raging intolerance"--the claim by Muslims that they revere Christ could be viewed as insulting by some Christians, but let's face it, the only "raging intolerance" that would occur in a debate between Christian(s) and (a) Muslim(s) over this issue would be from the Muslim(s). Quote
JB Globe Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 I'd like to point out that Muslim-Canadians already are integrated (note past tense) and we should work on continuing this trend. There are already many Canadian Muslim women who are working for women's rights in their communities, tackling tough questions, and redefining their religion for Canadian society. Zarqa Nawaz (aka - Little Mosque's creator) is one of them, I'd suggest you check out her doc on women and Islam, and her personal experiences - "Me and the Mosque" I'd also like to float the idea that there are many Canadians of European descent who are more integrated with the Canada of 50 years ago than the Canada of today. They need to be integrated into the Canada of 2008 just as much as NEW immigrants (including muslim immigrants) do. We'd not hesitate to call a man who believes a woman's place is in the home a dinosaur, so I don't see the problem in doing the same to someone who espouses white nationalist views. This isn't 1959, you can't turn back the clock. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Yes, and no!We've always had a number of cultures in the country. We never had OFFICIAL multiculturalism until the Liberals dreamed it up! There is a HUGE difference! If you're going to cite polls or give opinion about how Canadians feel towards multiculturalism, if you're not precise then you are misleading. It has been my experience that Canadians in general are extremely tolerant of different cultures, as long as they do not conflict with core Canadian beliefs, such as the rights of women and the separation of church and state. They tend to get very INTOLERANT of official multiculturalism, which is a politically correct vehicle to use tax money as a bribe for photo-ops and election votes. There is no difference to me at all if the claim is official or unofficial. You can see multiculturalism as soon as you walk out your door. JB Globe, I like your interpretation of it. They are already integrated and getting more integrated all the time. It's like moving into a new neighbourhood, get to know your neighbours. They might be different, but it would be boring as watching paint dry if we were all the same. Quote
White Doors Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 One common ground that Islam and Christianity have is the worship of Jesus as a deity yikes. are you serious or do you just not know the meaning of deity? lol Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
kengs333 Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 This isn't 1959, you can't turn back the clock. Actually, yes you can, and that's what's happening by allowing large numbers of Muslims into Canada. I don't disagree that some Muslims readily integrate and assimilate into Canadian society, but has is always the case when there is an influx of a large group of people into a country who have a common ideological background fundamentally different to that of the existing norm, Canadian society always has to deal with consequences in the long term. In my opinion, Canada is still marred by the immigration of large numbers of Americans and stridently socialist Eastern Europeans to the Prairie provinces. Islam will change Canadian society, particularly that of south-central Ontario, and it will not always be for the good; Islam has its own issues and you're naive to think that they will simply evaporate at the border. Sadly people like you fail to realize that Canada, despite its faults, does not have an inherently bad society that constantly needs to be revamped, that there are institutions and traditions that are worth preserving, and that the constant influx of people who hold fundamentally different ideological outlooks (this is NOT about race) can and has been detrimental to Canada as a whole. Quote
kuzadd Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 yikes. are you serious or do you just not know the meaning of deity?lol deity 1.A deity or god is a postulated preternatural or supernatural being, who is usually, but not always, of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by human beings. 2.any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force http://islam.about.com/od/jesus/Prophet_Jesus_Isa.htm Prophet Jesus ('Isa) Muslims believe that Jesus, son of Mary, was a noble and honorable prophet of God. Learn more about the life and teachings of Jesus, according to the Muslim faith. Q. What does the Qur'an say about Jesus? From Huda, Your Guide to Islam. A. In the Qur'an, stories about the life and teachings of Jesus Christ (called 'Isa in Arabic) are abundant. The Qur'an recalls his miraculous birth, his teachings, the miracles he performed by God's permission, and his life as a respected prophet of God. The Qur'an also repeatedly reminds that Jesus was a human prophet sent by God, not part of God Himself. For more detailed information about what Muslims believe about Jesus, please visit the FAQ index page. Below are some direct quotations from the Qur'an regarding his life and teachings. "Behold! the angels said, 'Oh Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter, and in (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity.He shall be (in the company) of the righteous... And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'" (3:45-48). "He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (19:30-35). lol? Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
Leafless Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Little does anyone here realize that Canada is a multicultural country, and has been since it's birth.Multiculturism is part of Canadian Culture. End of thread. Multiculturalism indeed has been part of Canada since its birth and has allowed immigrants to be assimilated into the Canadian/Western culture to become honourable Canadians. In 1971 official multiculturalism was unleashed with the intent being to allow minoritiy groups, Quebec, Aboriginals and immigrants, with policies to allow them to retain their cultural identity. So in effect GostHacked, 'official multiculturalism' is primarily a cultural weapon, invented by the Liberal party of Canada, to destroy the established culture of multicultural Canada. This is in effect, a war on multicultural Canadians and their established culture. Quote
MontyBurns Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Muslim countries do not seem to be overly willing to tolerate white Europeans. Why do we go out of our way to accomodate them? Can you imagine muslims in Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc. going to bat for you? ... Forget it. Are we all such a bunch of cowards that we cant even stand up for ourselves? It seems like in Canada everybody is deathly afraid of the feminists, political correctness, racist labelling, etc. Canadians should start acting like men again and stop acting like a bunch of feminized political correctness wussies. Then I can finally be proud to be Canadian. Quote "From my cold dead hands." Charlton Heston
guyser Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 In 1971 official multiculturalism was unleashed , with policies to allow them to retain their cultural identity. Curious what policies have been implemented to "allow them to retain their cultural identity"? Quote
Peter F Posted March 11, 2008 Report Posted March 11, 2008 Canadians should start acting like men again and stop acting like a bunch of feminized political correctness wussies. Then I can finally be proud to be Canadian. ...except for the women, of course... Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
jefferiah Posted March 11, 2008 Report Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) deity 1.A deity or god is a postulated preternatural or supernatural being, who is usually, but not always, of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by human beings. 2.any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force http://islam.about.com/od/jesus/Prophet_Jesus_Isa.htm Prophet Jesus ('Isa) Muslims believe that Jesus, son of Mary, was a noble and honorable prophet of God. Learn more about the life and teachings of Jesus, according to the Muslim faith. That's inconsistent with your own definition of deity. You said they worshipped Jesus, and worship seems to be a theme in these definitions of deity you have given. Neither faith worships prophets. In our case we regard Jesus as more than a prophet. Islam regards Jesus as a prophet only. You do not worship prophets. In Islam the Prophet Mohammed is regarded as more highly than Jesus, and they do not even worship Mohammed, but Allah. Edited March 11, 2008 by jefferiah Quote "Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu
Leafless Posted March 11, 2008 Report Posted March 11, 2008 Curious what policies have been implemented to "allow them to retain their cultural identity"? Relating to Quebec it was an interpretation of cultural rights that as allowed Quebec to be classified as a 'founding people', resulting in official multiculturalism, official languages, official bilingualism and Charter Rights and Freedoms. Now Aboriginals are demanding the same rights as Quebec. Canadians were by passed relating to any decision concerning Quebec cultural authority in determining their perceived place in Canada. Canadians have been shafted and continue to be shafted. Relating to immigrants, a flawed immigration policy by an unknown author, that allows millions of foreign immigrants into this country and protected by Charter Rights and Freedoms, human rights legislation and associated hate laws Again Canadians have been shafted by their own government. Immigration policy should be established by way of a referendum to allow Canadians to decide what type of immigration should be allowed into this country and the standards they are expected to abide by. Quote
kuzadd Posted March 11, 2008 Report Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) That's inconsistent with your own definition of deity. You said they worshipped Jesus, and worship seems to be a theme in these definitions of deity you have given. Neither faith worships prophets. In our case we regard Jesus as more than a prophet. Islam regards Jesus as a prophet only. You do not worship prophets. In Islam the Prophet Mohammed is regarded as more highly than Jesus, and they do not even worship Mohammed, but Allah. actually it is not inconsistent, reread the definitions. .A deity or god is a postulated preternatural or supernatural being, who is usually, but not always, of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by human beings. worship:a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object. b.The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed. Jesus is revered/worshipped/thought holy, divine, or is sacred, in Islam. Therefore Jesus is a deity in Islam. http://soundvision.com/Info/jesus/ Jesus and Muslims Muslims are required by God to believe in all of the Prophets. These include Jesus and John the Baptist peace be upon them. The Quran, the Islamic holy book, also instructs Muslims to believe in the books revealed to every Prophet as well. The book given to Jesus is called Injeel in the Quran. Muslims love Jesus. We also love Abraham, Moses, and Noah, to name just a few other Prophets Muslims revere. May God's peace be upon all of these great messengers of God. Christians should just get over their own intolerance before they speak about others, and use the fact that Islam reveres Jesus, as a bridge to understanding as stated. IMO, you say what you say, since you can not accept the simple facts of the matter. Edited March 11, 2008 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
kuzadd Posted March 11, 2008 Report Posted March 11, 2008 Relating to Quebec it was an interpretation of cultural rights that as allowed Quebec to be classified as a 'founding people', resulting in official multiculturalism, official languages, official bilingualism and Charter Rights and Freedoms. Now Aboriginals are demanding the same rights as Quebec. wrt to Quebec as 'founding people'????? as 'founding people'??? now Aborignals are demanding the same rights?? I suppose these rights only belong to the British?????? Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
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