What Went Wrong For Barack Obama

[bush_cheney2004]

.....But, in any case, again, how did he make Wright's comments pretty?

By sculpting Wright's offensive litany into a political derivation for change.

I am not running for POTUS, but "sociopaths" are not barred from office. However, you are.

[Regulus de Leo]

He explained that he knows more about Wright than those who have only heard the controversial things he has said. People are usually more than their media-generated caracatures. He disagreed with those particular comments but a wholesale condemnation of Wright would be ridiculous and would be pandering.

No one can be interpreted by one or two inflammatory comments they have made. I'm sure we could collect your most offensive comments and make you seem like a complete sociopath, but that might be an unbalanced portrait of your overall character.

Or not.

But, in any case, again, how did he make Wright's comments pretty?

There weren't 'one or two' comments. This is daily fare for that church. It was Marxist black 'social gospel' that's gone on for 20 years and Barack first claimed he didn't hear it and then changed his story to claim he'd heard it but wasn't going to condemn it because a person who is not a family member is like a family member (utter nonsense). Apparently according to Obama, to be black you must blamey whitey for all your problems.

[BubberMiley]

Apparently according to Obama, to be black you must blamey whitey for all your problems.

Apparently according to Obama, black people are more than just caracatures. It was predictable that there would be attempts to portray Obama as representative of the black community as a whole, with its wide range of sometimes extreme politics. He did a very good job of exposing those on both sides who try very, very hard to create further racial divisions in the U.S., and once again demonstrated how he is the best candidate to unify America.

[bush_cheney2004]

... He did a very good job of exposing those on both sides who try very, very hard to create further racial divisions in the U.S., and once again demonstrated how he is the best candidate to unify America.

I don't think so....what he has done is only marginally better than similar "teats in the wringer" episodes we have already seen from Reverend Jesse Jackson in elections past. I don't think it is a coincidence that Chicago is the locus for these controversies, going way back to the Nation of Islam's founding. Fast forward to Operation Push and the Rainbow Coalition. Mr. Obama hopes to survive unscathed when other "white" candidates would have been tarred and feathered by now for similar associations with extremists (e.g. David Duke).

Most Canadians have absolutely no experience or understanding of this legacy in Chicago, and, accordingly, have an incomplete context.

Edited March 19, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[BubberMiley]

Most Canadians have absolutely no experience or understanding of this legacy in Chicago, and, accordindly, have an incomplete context.

I don't think you have the foggiest notion what "most Canadians" understand.

[M.Dancer]

Mr. Obama hopes to survive unscathed when other "white" candidates would have been tarred and feathered by now for similar associations with extremists (e.g. David Duke).

I have to agree with that. I wonder if how many get out of jail free cards he has left....

And now somg lyrics from from everybody's favourite New Yorker...Lou Reed

Good evening Mr.Waldheim

and Pontiff how are you ?

You have so much in common

in the things you do

And here comes Jesse Jackson

he talks of Common Ground

Does that Common Ground include me

or is it just a sound

A sound that shakes

Oh Jesse, you must watch the sounds you make

A sound that quakes

There are fears that still reverberate

Jesse you say Common Ground

does that include the PLO ?

What about people right here right now

who fought for you not so long ago ?

The words that flow so freely

falling dancing from your lips

I hope that you don't cheapen them

with a racist slip

Oh Common Ground

Is Common Ground a word or just a sound

Common Ground

Remember those civil rights workers buried in the ground

If I ran for President

and once was a member of the Klan

wouldn't you call me on it

the way I call you on Farrakhan

And Pontiff, pretty Pontiff

can anyone shake your hand ?

Or is it just that you like uniforms

and someone kissing your hand

Or is it true

The Common Ground for me includes you too

Oh is it true

The Common Ground for me includes you too

Good evening Mr.Waldheim

pontiff how are you

As you both stroll through the woods at night

I'm thinking thoughts of you

And Jesse you're inside my thoughts

as the rhythmic words subside

My Common Ground invites you in

or do you prefer to wait outside

Or is it true

The Common Ground for me is without you

Or is it true

The Common Ground for me is without you

Oh is it true

There's no Ground Common enough for me and you

[August1991]

I don't think so....what he has done is only marginally better than similar "teats in the wringer" episodes we have already seen from Reverend Jesse Jackson in elections past. I don't think it is a coincidence that Chicago is the locus for these controversies, going way back to the Nation of Islam's founding. Fast forward to Operation Push and the Rainbow Coalition. Mr. Obama hopes to survive unscathed when other "white" candidates would have been tarred and feathered by now for similar associations with extremists (e.g. David Duke).

I happen to have found Obama's Philadelphia speech very, very good. The comparison of Wright's sermons and David Duke is false. Obama's speech intelligently explains the difference.

Obama is right to say that many racial issues remain unresolved in the US. It's a work in progress. OTOH, I don't know if a presidential campaign or if Obama's group-therapy approach are the right ways to address these issues.

Finally, his speech is just words. Obama's a good speaker. He's an entertainer. But a leader must do more.

BTW, this speech reads better as text than it did coming from his mouth. In Obama's case, it's usually the opposite where his texts are insipid and empty on the page. He read this speech quickly and in a monotone as if he wanted to get it done with quickly. Maybe he just wanted to avoid the histrionics for such a third-rail issue.

You can read the speech here.

[bush_cheney2004]

I happen to have found Obama's Philadelphia speech very, very good. The comparison of Wright's sermons and David Duke is false. Obama's speech intelligently explains the difference.

I disagree....irrespective of the goals each figure may have, the association is anathema to a presidential political campaign. Obama may think he is invulnerable because of high-minded goals, but in this case, Reverend Wright is kryptonite.

Obama is right to say that many racial issues remain unresolved in the US. It's a work in progress. OTOH, I don't know if a presidential campaign or if Obama's group-therapy approach are the right ways to address these issues.

Obama is only stating the obvious, even as he has sought to strip "race" from the discussion. He is not Martin Luther King.

Finally, his speech is just words. Obama's a good speaker. He's an entertainer. But a leader must do more.

It's just another good speech from Obama, with the added twist of trying to save his campaign hopes after taking the first serious hits expected during any presidential campaign. Obama still has yet to win the playoffs, let alone the general election. He can ill afford to take additional hits like this, hoping to escape with another well spun speech.

Edited March 19, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[August1991]

I disagree....irrespective of the goals each figure may have, the association is anathema to a presidential political campaign. Obama may think he is invulnerable because of high-minded goals, but in this case, Reverend Wright is kryptonite.

I disagree.

Obama is stating a reality of America. Right or wrong, that's how many Black Americans view America and White Americans, to have a united country, must accept this. Truth is sometimes perception.

IOW, if Obama ran as a Republican, he would give exactly the same (race relation) speeches, say the same (racial) things and he would win the presidency. Make no mistake. A smart ambitious black American is watching Obama's campaign.

These are the plain words of Mark Twain or Ernest Hemingway:

I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton’s Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I’ve gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world’s poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners – an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

----

We in Canada have some experience with someone from a minority obtaining federal office. I wasn't around when Wilfrid Laurier became Canada's first Catholic, ESL prime minister. In Laurier's first cabinet in 1896, he was the only Catholic, maternal francophone. All the other federal ministers were WASP anglophones. (In an Obama cabinet, he may well be the only black.)

Pierre Trudeau and Brian Mulroney were controversial leaders. Both were Catholics and both from Quebec. Trudeau left the Quebec NDP and joined the federal Liberal Party because he wanted to use its reputation to gain power. Mulroney used his Quebec roots to form a Conservative coalition. Since Laurier, English Canadians have a long history of accepting and voting for a national leader who is from a minority. Until Mulroney, this has been the federal Liberal claim to fame.

What of America? It has never had a black president.

Barack Obama is a Pierre Trudeau politician. Obama's mother was white, and Trudeau's mother was English. IMV, Trudeau made the choice to cross over to the federal Liberals because he felt Canada's racial/cultural differnces mattered more than his political opinions. If Obama really cared about America's race relations, he too would have crossed over to the Republicans.

However Obama fares in this election year, there is no doubt that America's racial relations have somehow changed.

Edited March 20, 2008 by August1991

[M.Dancer]

As Americans get to know Obama, they are not impressed with him.

WASHINGTON — For Barack Obama, it hasn't been this bad since it started to get better.

Battered by primary losses, criticism of his lack of experience and a controversy over incendiary and racist remarks by his pastor, the Illinois senator's national popularity is in danger of melting away.

A Reuters/Zogby national poll released Wednesday showed Mr. Obama holding a paltry three-point lead over challenger Hillary Clinton, which is within the poll's margin of error. Mr. Obama enjoyed the support of 47 per cent of voters, while Ms. Clinton claimed 44 per cent.

Only a month ago, the spread was 14 points.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ection2008/home

[bush_cheney2004]

....What of America? It has never had a black president.

No black or brown Prime Ministers in Canada either.

Barack Obama is a Pierre Trudeau politician. Obama's mother was white, and Trudeau's mother was English. IMV, Trudeau made the choice to cross over to the federal Liberals because he felt Canada's racial/cultural differnces mattered more than his political opinions. If Obama really cared about America's race relations, he too would have crossed over to the Republicans.

If Obama is truly a PET politician, then he will surely lose in conservative America.

However Obama fares in this election year, there is no doubt that America's racial relations have somehow changed.

Nope...not even close. The biggest change came a long time ago.

[Carinthia]

Nope...not even close. The biggest change came a long time ago.

U.S. elections are decided by U.S. media, who are just unofficial contractors for the U.S. Gov't. They're still playing the tape, over and over again. Joe Scarborough has become a raving lunatic on this subject. Pat (shrill) Buchanan is doing the same. Indoctrination at it's best. The media is currently guilting out the super delegates hour after hour, to ensure that they don't decide on Obama. The subtle or not really so subtle mantra is, "If you vote for Obama, you are unpatriotic". U.S. patriotism is devine and any realistic self critizism is viewed as treason.

Everybody will wake up from the fog on the morning after the election and say "My God, we've got McCain, what the hell happened"? and "Gee, they must have rigged the voting machines".

Edited March 20, 2008 by Carinthia

[Guest American Woman]

WASHINGTON — For Barack Obama, it hasn't been this bad since it started to get better.

Battered by primary losses, criticism of his lack of experience and a controversy over incendiary and racist remarks by his pastor, the Illinois senator's national popularity is in danger of melting away.

A Reuters/Zogby national poll released Wednesday showed Mr. Obama holding a paltry three-point lead over challenger Hillary Clinton, which is within the poll's margin of error. Mr. Obama enjoyed the support of 47 per cent of voters, while Ms. Clinton claimed 44 per cent.

Only a month ago, the spread was 14 points.

As Americans get to know Obama, they are not impressed with him.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ection2008/home

According to the latest Gallop Poll, Hillary is in the lead among Democratic voters.

Clinton takes lead over Obama in Gallup poll

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has moved into a significant lead over Barack Obama among Democratic voters, according to a new Gallup poll.

The March 14-18 national survey of 1,209 Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters gave Clinton, a New York senator, a 49 percent to 42 percent edge over Obama, an Illinois senator. The poll has an error margin of 3 percentage points.

[HisSelf]

So if I respond to a thread entitled "What went wrong for Obama" I agree that something went wrong for Obama?

I sure do wonder what the political scene might look like if we could just get rid of the spin doctors.

I surely do. Might we be able to reclaim democracy?

[Carinthia]

As Americans get to know Obama, they are not impressed with him.

Joe, Pat and Billo and their "everybody's stupid but them" attitude is working, as carefully strategized. I would love to sit next to them in the bar.

[BubberMiley]

According to the latest Gallop Poll, Hillary is in the lead among Democratic voters.

That kind of rubs salt in her wounds, considering most of them have already voted for their nominee and most of them voted for Obama.

[August1991]

No black or brown Prime Ministers in Canada either.

There are relatively few blacks in Canada and in any case, that is not Canada's major majority/minority split. It is language and religion that divide Canadians. (Long ago this was referred to as race but that's not the modern usage.)

If Obama is truly a PET politician, then he will surely lose in conservative America.

My comparison to Trudeau referred to the fact that Trudeau was the product of a mixed family: his father was French and his mother was English (Scottish origin in fact). Similarly, Obama's father was black and his mother white.

Such people have a unique perspective on majority/minority relations. It sometimes involves a balancing an act or a form of schizophrenia. Trudeau was called a "frog" in English Canada and an Englishman in Quebec. Yet, Trudeau was perfectly bilingual and could hold his own in any debate in either language.

Obama is visibly black and yet he was raised as a white. At some point, he apparently made a concious decision to be known as black. In any case, his unique perspective of race relations runs all through his speech.

----

My point above is that if Obama were a little more politically-minded, and if he truly took to heart his desire to move racial relations in the US further along, he would have run as a Republican. An ambitious young black politician is no doubt drawing that conclusion now.

Something else. I don't think that Obama has really thought through all of the implications of a minority's position in society. I'll give Trudeau credit for having spent a large part of his life - before getting into federal politics - concerned with that very question. When Trudeau arrived on the federal scene, he had some clear and intelligent answers. Trudeau wsa never shy to point out the inadequacies within Quebec society.

Obama on the other hand doesn't appear to have done this. Obama still excuses the kinds of statements that amount to victimhood or blame shifting. If Obama were serious, he would hold black people to a higher standard. He is in a position to do it.

This is how Mark Steyn put it:

Well, I found the Obama speech very sad, because he was supposed to be the candidate of a post-racial politics. And in effect, I think his speech, one could argue, is explicitly racist in that it says, it essentially argues that Jeremiah Wright’s words do not have the meaning, the plain meaning that they would have if they were spoken in English to the broad mainstream of America. In other words, when Jeremiah Wright says that the United States government created AIDS for the purpose of killing black people, we are supposed to say that that doesn’t mean what it says, and that it’s just part of the different cultural discourse that for historical reasons, takes place in black America. I’m sorry, but that’s not good enough for me, because basically, it says we’re not going to judge men by the content of their character, we’re going to carry on, making excuses for the worst kind of people perpetrating hateful language that rebounds, for the most part, on the people he’s speaking to. He can talk, Jeremiah Wright can talk that drivel as much as he wants. The only people it impacts on are his black congregation. And I think that’s a tragedy, and I’m sorry to see a man like Senator Obama making excuses for it.

Link

I didn't who Joe Scarborough was until I saw the reference above and looked up his name in Wikipedia. Anyway,

. (Starts at about the 3:50 mark.) I agree with Huckabee too.

[bush_cheney2004]

There are relatively few blacks in Canada and in any case, that is not Canada's major majority/minority split. It is language and religion that divide Canadians. (Long ago this was referred to as race but that's not the modern usage.)

Understood, but that doesn't deflect the point about "race"....Canada shares many of the same societal issues seen in the USA on top of the separatist causes.

My comparison to Trudeau referred to the fact that Trudeau was the product of a mixed family: his father was French and his mother was English (Scottish origin in fact). Similarly, Obama's father was black and his mother white.

I underestand, but the comparisons are not equivalent. While significant in Canada, Scottish and French does not register on the Richter (race) scale compared to black and white in the USA. And even that is somewhat mitigated by education and socio-economic class.

Such people have a unique perspective on majority/minority relations. It sometimes involves a balancing an act or a form of schizophrenia. Trudeau was called a "frog" in English Canada and an Englishman in Quebec. Yet, Trudeau was perfectly bilingual and could hold his own in any debate in either language.

Obama is visibly black and yet he was raised as a white. At some point, he apparently made a concious decision to be known as black. In any case, his unique perspective of race relations runs all through his speech.

Visibly "black" reflects the Canadian perspective (i.e. visible minority - a strange concept to me). In the US, such distinctions are made with finer granularity, far beyond superficial appearances (e.g. "oreo", white chocolate, "one drop rule", etc.). Obama has the very difficult task of keeping his black voter base even as they look for signs that he would "sell out" to have broader appeal in the general. The Clintons did Obama an enormous favor by thrusting race to the forefront and insulting an icon (MLK), even though Obama probably is uncomfortable jousting with race.

My point above is that if Obama were a little more politically-minded, and if he truly took to heart his desire to move racial relations in the US further along, he would have run as a Republican. An ambitious young black politician is no doubt drawing that conclusion now.

This is where we part company....moving race relations along is not a pressing concern for this political season. There are several Republicans (who happen to be black) who could have pursued the same agenda if it were a priority. Senator Obama is unremarkable with respect to American political firsts...unless he gets his party's nomination.

Obama on the other hand doesn't appear to have done this. Obama still excuses the kinds of statements that amount to victimhood or blame shifting. If Obama were serious, he would hold black people to a higher standard. He is in a position to do it.

Not really...and no more than he is in a position to hold non-blacks to a higher standard. As you already know, African Americans are not a monolithic block, and this is the most important metric for "going to the mountaintop".

[WIP]

I'm new here and I am interested in the U.S. election. I have to say off the top, that I didn't bother answering the poll question because it is based on a bogus premise that Barach Obama is a failure??? Oh well, garbage in, garbage out, as they say! This is why you have to scrutinize statistical analysis in the first place. Many special interest groups wave polls around proving their case on all sorts of issues that have been biased by the way the questions have been phrased. My apologies if this issue has already been dealt with, I haven't read all of the posts in the 10 pages of this thread.

Now, since the Clinton campaign, the Republicans and rightwing media have successfully kept so much focus on from what I gather are words used in only two of Rev. Wright's sermons, I want to know why no one on the right or even in the mainstream media has put any significant focus on McCain's dangerous religious allies?

I'm speaking specifically of these two: John Hagee and Rod Parsley. Doesn't it seem a little odd that Obama is trashed and his words are twisted to imply that he's condemning his grandmother by FoxNews, while McCain can cozy up to the ever-growing Reverend who claims the pope is the antichrist?

Personally, I think the whole issue points out that religious influence is dangerously potent in the U.S., and thanks to the Reformers, it's invaded conservative politics here in Canada also! In Obama's book: "The Audacity of Hope" he informs us that he considered himself more of an atheist or an agnostic before meeting Rev. Wright, but was advised when he first became involved in local politics, that he could not connect with the black community if he didn't have a connection with the black Church. And I hope his religious conversion was superficial, rather than genuine, because at least he wouldn't follow the pattern of the present idiot who occupies the White House of making every major decision a "faith-based" decision!

[Dog]

WIP in the most recent survey done 8% of those working in "media" describe themselves as right wing or conservative . At 8% the right wing media is really a non factor and the reason this story has stayed in the news is the outrageous nature of the comments of his reverend and close personal friend of 23 years . As for Hagee and Parsley endorsing McCain , you cant stop anyone for endorsing you as Obama found out on thursday when the Black Panthers endorsed him or three weeks ago when Farrakhan endorsed him .

Obama has run on the Hope and Change {what ever that is} platform with his superior judgement as the center piece of his presidential bid . Rev Wright has shot a giant whole in his superior judgement and thats why he will lose the general election .

[WIP]

WIP in the most recent survey done 8% of those working in "media" describe themselves as right wing or conservative . At 8% the right wing media is really a non factor and the reason this story has stayed in the news is the outrageous nature of the comments of his reverend and close personal friend of 23 years . As for Hagee and Parsley endorsing McCain , you cant stop anyone for endorsing you as Obama found out on thursday when the Black Panthers endorsed him or three weeks ago when Farrakhan endorsed him .

And there's a key to bogus statistics: 8% DESCRIBE THEMSELVES as conservative. On what basis? How do they define conservative? I thought I was a conservative too until the religious right took over the word! Now, I don't even feel comfortable using libertarian, since it's been co-opted by christiofascists who want to dismantle secular government for a return to the church rule of the middle ages. If you don't believe me, check out some of the writings of "libertarian" supporters of Ron Paul, like Christian Reconstructionist Gary North, or Vox Day of Worldnetdaily. And Hagee and Parsley are seen up on stage with McCain. That's what disappoints me about this guy! Back in 2000, he called these same dangerous charlatans: "agents of intolerance." Now he wants to be seen as their man in Washington!

Obama has run on the Hope and Change {what ever that is} platform with his superior judgement as the center piece of his presidential bid . Rev Wright has shot a giant whole in his superior judgement and thats why he will lose the general election .

Barach Obama's political beliefs are too left for my liking, but at least he is offering a positive message! What are the Republicans running on? Every slogan, every policy position I have read taps into greed, fear or outright hatred. Even McCain, the most reasonable of the lot, offers nothing postiive. All he would do is carry on the endless war that the Bush Administration started.

[BubberMiley]

Obama has run on the Hope and Change {what ever that is} platform with his superior judgement as the center piece of his presidential bid . Rev Wright has shot a giant whole in his superior judgement and thats why he will lose the general election .

The Wright controversy will not have legs to November and is already dying down. I find the most reliable predictors at Intrade.com, because that's where people put their money where their mouths are. Last week Obama was ahead of McCain 47 to 38. That dropped substantially after Wright, and they were about even. I think McCain might have even pulled ahead before The Speech. Obama has already started to regain his lead, and this morning it's about 47 to 40 for Obama.

That's not to say it's perfect. The Patriots also had a big advantage on betting sites before the SuperBowl. But in terms of politics, the oddsmakers have been remarkably accurate.

We'll see what they're predicting in the first week of November though.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Wright controversy will not have legs to November and is already dying down....

Not if Senator Obama is nominated by his party. Then the Wright Reverend will be resurrected in negative campaign ads by the Republicans and/or proxies. "Swiftboating" John Kerry will seem mild by comparison.

[BubberMiley]

Then the Wright Reverend will be resurrected in negative campaign ads by the Republicans and/or proxies.

It won't stick. What difference does Wright make if Obama's a muslim?

[bush_cheney2004]

It won't stick. What difference does Wright make if Obama's a muslim?

It has already stuck....like jbg posted....you just don't understand. The general election is a battle ground of margins, and like a gift, there is "priceless" video/audio to use in the campaign ads. And the public vetting has just started!

It's even better than an alleged Ayotollah Obama. Even Clinton will use this to question his "electibility".

Don't worry.....you can always claim that the Republicans and Diebold fixed the voting machines.

Edited March 25, 2008 by bush_cheney2004