US soldier throws puppy from cliff

[AngusThermopyle]

Thanks Guyser, I was going to bring up conduct unbecoming myself.Are you now going to postulate that image and behaviour are irrelevant BC? Is it your contention that anything goes so long as it is not specifically mentioned in printed word? If so then I would hate to be indoctrinated by such a mind set.

The simple fact is that military members must be held to a higher standard of conduct than the average person. To deny this is to be deliberately obtuse or willfully blind to the truth. Then the intangibles of military service must be considered, things such as honour. An honourable man simply does not engage in such behaviour, at least not by any standard of honour that I've ever seen.

Now, what the hell does a military members standards of conduct have to do with baby seals? Or is this just more of your inane, pointless rambling?

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE: Why anyone would have the need to turn this into a 'bash the U.S. military/bash the U.S.' issue is difficult to understand, especially in light of the comments quoted above regarding others; comment which would be appropriate regarding this thread.

It may be difficult to understand but its really not that surprising. I think its a reflection of just how impotent and powerless most people feel in terms of seeing the US military and its commander in chief get such a free pass on other more important things like rendition, torture, phoney intell and misguided invasions etc etc.

If it's not surprising that this thread would focus on cutting down the U.S. military for the reasons you state, then it should be equally not surprising that people would use violent acts committed by Muslims to focus on cutting down Muslims. It would, by the same line of thought and level of understanding, be a reflection on just how impotent and powerless people feel in reaction to the terrorist actitivty/suicide bombers/the desire to kill westerners that we've been dealing with.

So I stand by what I said. In light of the comments directed at others regarding their comments about Muslims, I find the "U.S. military bashing" aspect of this thread difficult to understand.

I'd rather see things like the secret meetings the commanders have behind closed doors posted to places like You-tube, then people's outrage would be more focused on where it really belongs.

To focus on the U.S. military because of the actions of one or two marines, actions that have nothing to do with military actions but have in fact been condemned by the military, is in no way focusing outrage even remotely where it belongs. "Commanders" and "the troops" are two very different things. The U.S. military bashing aspect of this thread was totally uncalled for and out of line.

[buffycat]

Ahhh yes the morality of the US military...wait I thought Israel had the most moral military in the world!! pffft...

Here - some more wonderful Amerikunnns:

American Troops going Insane

Going??????

bahahahhahahahahahaha!!

I'd say they're pretty much GONE!!!

So, soon these assholes are going to be coming home - most likely to a police force near you!!

Have fun getting beaten up, tasered and shot.

Nice guys all 'round!!

AW - you seem to think this is just 'one or two', sorry - it's alot more than that. This is what happens when you ask your soldiers to fight in an illegal and immoral war.

Hearts and minds eh?

ugly americans.

[guyser]

Another troll , dont take the bait AW.

[bush_cheney2004]

Sadly, you should have put your CO up on charges.

Nonsense...If you have ever served in the military you would know how stupid this would be.

As for UCMJ, no it does not apply to puppies. It certainly would apply to idiots who do harm to them. And , frankly you know this.

Your CO , and this Marine who threw the puppy could be charged under Subchapter 933, article 133 , Conduct unbecoming , or S 934 Article 134 , the "dont be stupid" section (abuse of animals)

Not even close...stop pretending your "moral outrage" would mean a damn thing in such matters. Ever seen what a bird strike or turbine ingestion can do to very expensive aircraft?

[bush_cheney2004]

...So, soon these assholes are going to be coming home - most likely to a police force near you!!

Have fun getting beaten up, tasered and shot.

You mean like that Polish gent in Vancouver.....ZOTTTTT!

ugly americans.

Thank you.

[bush_cheney2004]

Thanks Guyser, I was going to bring up conduct unbecoming myself.Are you now going to postulate that image and behaviour are irrelevant BC? Is it your contention that anything goes so long as it is not specifically mentioned in printed word? If so then I would hate to be indoctrinated by such a mind set.

Yes....I am so "indoctrinated". I can't wait to bash that cute little Harpies and skin them alive on the ice. Do I need a permit?

The simple fact is that military members must be held to a higher standard of conduct than the average person. To deny this is to be deliberately obtuse or willfully blind to the truth. Then the intangibles of military service must be considered, things such as honour. An honourable man simply does not engage in such behaviour, at least not by any standard of honour that I've ever seen.

American service men and women do not have to meet your standards.

Now, what the hell does a military members standards of conduct have to do with baby seals? Or is this just more of your inane, pointless rambling?

No, it's an excellent rejoinder to smug judgements from some Canadians. Don't like the response? Then explain why it is perfectly acceptable to club poor defenseless seals and carve them up alive on ice floes? Is that "honourable"? LOL!

Canada's Seal Hunt: The Largest Slaughter of Marine Mammals in the World:

http://drbenkim.com/node/574

Edited March 6, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[guyser]

Nonsense...If you have ever served in the military you would know how stupid this would be.

Nope, plain and simple , you could not be more wrong.

I question whether your served or not with your utter lack of understanding of UCMJ. It says in the UCMJ " abuse of animals" as cause for charges. That was plainly abuse of an animal.

It is pretty easy to see, what with your comments about seals, the guy in Vancouver , et al, that you are trying very hard to pull focus off the fact that you are ignorant to the UCMJ. I could if you like print it here for all to see.

Keep in focus here. Seals, bird strikes in engines (ohh ohh move the goalposts) , tasering , have nothing to do with this.

As a participant in a website that has many many posters from the US military , they pretty much all to a man, have concurred that this Marine will be in deep trouble .

Honour , code , bringing disrespect to the uniform , they said.

Dishonourable Conduct release for you was it?

[bush_cheney2004]

Nope, plain and simple , you could not be more wrong.

I question whether your served or not with your utter lack of understanding of UCMJ. It says in the UCMJ " abuse of animals" as cause for charges. That was plainly abuse of an animal.

It is pretty easy to see, what with your comments about seals, the guy in Vancouver , et al, that you are trying very hard to pull focus off the fact that you are ignorant to the UCMJ. I could if you like print it here for all to see.

Keep in focus here. Seals, bird strikes in engines (ohh ohh move the goalposts) , tasering , have nothing to do with this.

As a participant in a website that has many many posters from the US military , they pretty much all to a man, have concurred that this Marine will be in deep trouble .

Honour , code , bringing disrespect to the uniform , they said.

Dishonourable Conduct release for you was it?

So you want to debate the merits of your "case" based on a YouTube video? OK smart ass pretender of all things "honourable" in the US military, please articulate the elements of the offense, "deep trouble", and the requisite Article 15 (NJP) proceedings. Explain how the investigation would be conducted, findings of fact, opinions, witness testimony, medical evaluation, scene commander, etc., etc.

Pretend you have done it as many times as I have. I will even give you time to Google it up.

Your personal insults are not a substitute for knowing anything.

Edited March 6, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[AngusThermopyle]

No, it's an excellent rejoinder to smug judgements from some Canadians. Don't like the response? Then explain why it is perfectly acceptable to club poor defenseless seals and carve them up alive on ice floes? Is that "honourable"? LOL!

You really are comprehension challenged aren't you? As stated previously, we are talking about the conduct of a military member, not some Newfie fisherman. Do you not discern any difference between the two? Or is it your contention that a US Marine is the equivalent of a Newfie fisherman?

Further to this childish silly line of reasoning. Who ever said in this thread that the seal hunt is a good thing? It appears you are grasping at rather nebulous and inane straws to justify the unjustifiable. Is it your contention that it is acceptable for US military members to act like uncivilised animals?

Sometimes you come up with a really good point or arguement, I'm afraid this just isn't one of them. As for excellent rejoinder, thats sort of like the time you talked about how funny you are. Perhaps in your mind, but I don't think anyone is rushing to the applause button for you.

American service men and women do not have to meet your standards.

Well this statement doesn't surprise me, pretty typical of your posts, childish in an "I'm going to take my ball and go home" sort of way. Where did I say they have to meet my standards? Oh...thats right, I didn't. Nice try at deflection though (not). They do have to meet societies standards, do they not? Or is it now your contention that America is just a happy land filled with puppy killing citizens?

Edited March 6, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[White Doors]

It may be difficult to understand but its really not that surprising. I think its a reflection of just how impotent and powerless most people feel in terms of seeing the US military and its commander in chief get such a free pass on other more important things like rendition, torture, phoney intell and misguided invasions etc etc.

I'd rather see things like the secret meetings the commanders have behind closed doors posted to places like You-tube, then people's outrage would be more focused on where it really belongs.

So in your opinion, there would be no animal cruelty or 'cultural misunderstandings' if there was no US military and President Bush?

Did I capture that correctly?

lol

[guyser]

So you want to debate the merits of your "case" based on a YouTube video?

My case? Nope not mine, his, that is if he is charged which may or may not happen.

OK smart ass pretender of all things "honourable" in the US military,

It seems you can dish it out but apparently you cannot take it. From trying to muddy the waters with comparisons of Marines to seal hunters , tasers and the rest. Now it is smart ass.

"Do you have what it takes" to focus here?

please articulate the elements of the offense, "deep trouble", and the requisite Article 15 (NJP) proceedings. Explain how the investigation would be conducted, findings of fact, opinions, witness testimony, medical evaluation, scene commander, etc., etc.

Pretend you have done it as many times as I have. I will even give you time to Google it up.

Your personal insults are not a substitute for knowing anything.

There were no personal insults about anything. Merely observation that you were either being untruthful or not knowing.

You are doing it again. Asking all these silly questions about how it works.

I will not pretend to know the how's the whys of any article 15 proceedings nor of any testimony etc. I dont need to. I was pointed to UCMJ and to read certain parts, of course this coming from members or ex, of branches of your military.

However, that said , it would seem that those in command are taking an interest in the actions of the man in question. You can however take up your indignance , or jollies with the Marine Corp.

Seems those in charge would disagree with you.

DoD statement

The Department of Defense joins the U.S. Marine Corps in denouncing the actions of the individuals seen abusing a puppy in a video posted to the web. The behavior seen in this video is not in keeping with the high standards of conduct we expect of the men and women in our military. The Marines are taking the necessary actions. Their public statement follows.

"The video of a Marine mistreating a puppy gained widespread attention on the Internet today (March 3, 2008). The video is shocking and deplorable and is contrary to the high standards we expect of every Marine.

This video came to our attention this morning, and we have initiated an investigation. We do not tolerate this type of behavior and will take appropriate action.

The vast majority of Marines conduct their duties in an honorable manner that brings great credit upon the Marine Corps and the United States. There have been numerous stories of Marines adopting pets and bringing them home from Iraq or helping to arrange life-saving medical care for Iraqi children. Those are the stories that exemplify what we stand for and how most Marines behave."

The Department thanks the numerous citizens who brought the video to our attention.

Posted by: PB | Mar 4, 2008 3:56:17 PM

Another version confirming the action of the Marine is being investigated.

http://heraldnet.com/article/20080303/NEWS01/367822819

I do not, nor at any time have I denigrated the armed forces personnel of any country. I see this video as one sick person (again if true) and not in any way reflective of others in the service. It was the same way with CDN Forces and the killing in Somalia.

[bush_cheney2004]

My case? Nope not mine, his, that is if he is charged which may or may not happen.

It seems you can dish it out but apparently you cannot take it. From trying to muddy the waters with comparisons of Marines to seal hunters , tasers and the rest. Now it is smart ass.

The issue is cruelty to defenseless animals, and apparently how much you squirm when shown the identical behavior conducted on a massive, annual scale in your own nation.

"Do you have what it takes" to focus here?

There were no personal insults about anything. Merely observation that you were either being untruthful or not knowing.

Asserting or implying that my discharge from military service was less than honourable is a personal insult. Why can't you focus on the topic?

You are doing it again. Asking all these silly questions about how it works.

I will not pretend to know the how's the whys of any article 15 proceedings nor of any testimony etc. I dont need to. I was pointed to UCMJ and to read certain parts, of course this coming from members or ex, of branches of your military.

Of course you don't know, but has never stopped you from spouting off on things before. The small matter of an investigation to determine if the elements of an offense even exist, corroborated by witnesses/evidence, doesn't seem to matter at all to you.

However, that said , it would seem that those in command are taking an interest in the actions of the man in question. You can however take up your indignance , or jollies with the Marine Corp:

Old news..read Stars and Stripes to catch up on the matter.

Seems those in charge would disagree with you.

Another version confirming the action of the Marine is being investigated.

Hmmm...seems I just said that. The matter is being investigated because of the YouTube video in the media, not because of an puppy winging his way to a craggy-rocks death.

I do not, nor at any time have I denigrated the armed forces personnel of any country. I see this video as one sick person (again if true) and not in any way reflective of others in the service. It was the same way with CDN Forces and the killing in Somalia.

OK....the Airborne Regiment convictions (little time served) were also more about media embarrassment for goody two-shoes Canada than anything else. But I suppose it's a fair comparison.....dead humans = dead puppies!

AW was correct in pointing out that this is just another anti-American thread from our favorite anti-American-ugly Americans-dont'cha-just hate-Americans thread maker.

--------------------------------------------------

We kill organisms on a routine basis in a variety of so called "humane" and very inhumane ways. Several miles from where I sit are cats and dogs in research labs being subjected to all kinds of inhumane procedures....death would be welcomed. I don't know if a Marine abused a puppy or not, but even if he did, I will not judge him without a perspective that includes cruelty on a routine basis around the world.

[guyser]

The issue is cruelty to defenseless .....know if a Marine abused a puppy or not, but even if he did, I will not judge him without a perspective that includes cruelty on a routine basis around the world.

You have sand in your mangina.

It is true you have replied on numerous threads that the US does not care about opinions outside the US.

Gosh, so it would seem that, when embarassed , you will appeal to a "perspective that includes cruelty on a routine basis around the world" .

I doubt the Marines are using that excuse.

I will add that if you were not dishonarably discharged then I apologize. Had you been truthful, then the opinion would not have been expressed. We reap what we sow.

[Guest American Woman]

see this video as one sick person (again if true) and not in any way reflective of others in the service. It was the same way with CDN Forces and the killing in Somalia.

Exactly. I hope the video turns out to be a hoax, but if it isn't, those involeve will be dealt with. According to CNN, the Marine could be charged with conduct unbecoming a Marine.

If the video is deemed legitimate, the lance corporal could face a charge of conduct unbecoming a Marine, Perrine said. There could be administrative action, nonjudicial punishment or a court-martial, he added.

[guyser]

Exactly. I hope the video turns out to be a hoax, but if it isn't, those involeve will be dealt with. According to CNN, the Marine could be charged with conduct unbecoming a Marine.

If the video is deemed legitimate, the lance corporal could face a charge of conduct unbecoming a Marine, Perrine said. There could be administrative action, nonjudicial punishment or a court-martial, he added.

If a hoax, he is still not out of hot water. Apparently his wife and family are being hounded to death , which is wrong mind you, but the family is ready to kill him.

I think if it was a hoax video, those involved would have ponied up the info by now. But they could be out of the base on assignment.

[Guest American Woman]

If a hoax, he is still not out of hot water. Apparently his wife and family are being hounded to death , which is wrong mind you, but the family is ready to kill him.

I think if it was a hoax video, those involved would have ponied up the info by now. But they could be out of the base on assignment.

From what I hear, the Marine who was ID'd is in 'safe keeping.' But even it is a hoax and those involved were to say it was now, I think it would have to be proven before anyone would believe it. So perhaps the military is waiting for an official analysis to be done.

The thing is, it seems to me if those involved in the video were saying it was real, admitting it was real, there wouldn't be any reason to think it might be a hoax, leading me to believe that they are saying it was a hoax. But that's just my analysis of the situation.

[guyser]

From what I hear, the Marine who was ID'd is in 'safe keeping.' But even it is a hoax and those involved were to say it was now, I think it would have to be proven before anyone would believe it. So perhaps the military is waiting for an official analysis to be done.

The thing is, it seems to me if those involved in the video were saying it was real, admitting it was real, there wouldn't be any reason to think it might be a hoax, leading me to believe that they are saying it was a hoax. But that's just my analysis of the situation.

That does not surprise me he is gone to "safe keeping" . Smart move.

But what is weird about all this is who put it up on YouTube , and why?

Being at war cannot be a whole lot of fun. The constant stress must take its toll and for someone to just up and throw a puppy over a cliff is either born deranged or under stress severe enough to alter his good judgement.Who knows, but I will take the later. In the end, it may not matter if he faces charges.

But collectively , just what did they think would happen when it hit YouTube , a sudden wealth of fans and fame a la William Hung ?

And why? Vendetta? Pissed off at the USMC ?

[bush_cheney2004]

You have sand in your mangina.

It is true you have replied on numerous threads that the US does not care about opinions outside the US.

Gosh, so it would seem that, when embarassed , you will appeal to a "perspective that includes cruelty on a routine basis around the world" .

It is your right to pretend otherwise in routine smugness ....I have become accustomed to this on MLW. When faced with comparisons and contrasts with like behavior, a foul is declared because Canada (or other nation) gets a pass. This thread is only about a DEAD PUPPY IN AFGHANISTAN BEING HURLED TO DEATH BY A UNITED STATES MARINE (dammit). Other cruelties (not recorded for YouTube) don't count!

I will add that if you were not dishonarably discharged then I apologize. Had you been truthful, then the opinion would not have been expressed. We reap what we sow.

Even If I was "untruthful" (I wasn't), your assertion was unrelated and the mark of a weak argument.

It's all good...somebody has to kill the puppies (and seal pups). And somebody has to cry for them.

Edited March 6, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[guyser]

It is your right to pretend otherwise in routine smugness ....I have become accustomed to this on MLW. When faced with comparisons and contrasts with like behavior, a foul is declared because Canada (or other nation) gets a pass.

I am not pretending nor being smug. Reply harshly to those who denigrate your country is fine, you turn it back on them. But I am not one of them.

The comparisons and contrast were irrelevant and unwarranted. Both our countries have hunters killing animals , abattoirs galore , labs tests using animals , but those had nothing to do with the wanton disregard for a puppy, and you know it.

This thread is only about a DEAD PUPPY IN AFGHANISTAN BEING HURLED TO DEATH BY A UNITED STATES MARINE (dammit). Other cruelties (not recorded for YouTube) don't count!

Actually this thread should be about a puppy being thrown. In no way is the USMC part of it other than as his employer. That said, his employer will determine the correct , if any, punishment for the act. And if they do, I would think you agree that he will face harsher punishment than a civilian in Poughkeepsie.

I suspect by your inclusion in brackets, that you also feel he has denigrated the uniform?

Even If I was "untruthful" (I wasn't), your assertion was unrelated and the mark of a weak argument.

It's all good...somebody has to kill the puppies (and seal pups). And somebody has to cry for them.

The mark of a weak argument is too muddy the waters to cover the truth. It was you who brought in all the other crap about tasering, seal pups etc to muddy the waters. Had you been honest about what could happen to this guy,instead of obfuscating , no comments would have been necessary.

And no, no one has to kill the puppies. It is not a way of life to anyone in the US, armed forces or not. As for seal pups, it is a way of life and an economic necessity and also heavily regulated. Agree or disagree, one is legal and the other isnt.

[bush_cheney2004]

I am not pretending nor being smug. Reply harshly to those who denigrate your country is fine, you turn it back on them. But I am not one of them.

The comparisons and contrast were irrelevant and unwarranted. Both our countries have hunters killing animals , abattoirs galore , labs tests using animals , but those had nothing to do with the wanton disregard for a puppy, and you know it.

For ye of limited perspective....yes. The only difference between this cruel end to a living organism is loathing for the US Military and a YouTube video.

Actually this thread should be about a puppy being thrown. In no way is the USMC part of it other than as his employer. That said, his employer will determine the correct , if any, punishment for the act. And if they do, I would think you agree that he will face harsher punishment than a civilian in Poughkeepsie.

Time will tell....I suspect he (and his family) will face far harsher treatment at home from puppy huggers.

I suspect by your inclusion in brackets, that you also feel he has denigrated the uniform?

Nope....see your own post above.

The mark of a weak argument is too muddy the waters to cover the truth. It was you who brought in all the other crap about tasering, seal pups etc to muddy the waters. Had you been honest about what could happen to this guy,instead of obfuscating , no comments would have been necessary.

Hmmm...still squirming about bleeding seal pups....I guess my strategy worked. Let's be clear about this...thousands of dead seals in Canada are an established fact, while nothing has been proven vis-a-vis the "truth" of one dead puppy. It it a source of "embarrassment" for Canadian animal rights groups. Oh the SHAME!

And no, no one has to kill the puppies. It is not a way of life to anyone in the US, armed forces or not. As for seal pups, it is a way of life and an economic necessity and also heavily regulated. Agree or disagree, one is legal and the other isnt.

Wrong....puppies and kittens are killed every day in the US and Canada...quite legally. As are many other organisms.

Edited March 7, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[guyser]

Hmmm...still squirming about bleeding seal pups....I guess my strategy worked.

LOL. No squirming at all.Seal pup slaughter is legal. Same as cattle, pigs , sheep....oh no it happens in both countries.

If your strategy is showing how you can dish it out but certainly cant take it , well then , yes it did work.

Let's be clear about this...thousands of dead seals in Canada are an established fact, while nothing has been proven vis-a-vis the "truth" of one dead puppy.

Oh lets be clear...... except you arent being clear. Should we talk relevance? Too funny.

Focus....focus....ignore your hurt feelings and focus. Try and make some connection between the two. Take the weekend if need be, and try and find some relevance to the two.

It it a source of "embarrassment" for Canadian animal rights groups. Oh the SHAME!

No shame for me. Its legal. If it bothers you so much you could protest.

Wrong....puppies and kittens are killed every day in the US and Canada...quite legally. As are many other organisms.

Wow, you lie too! So honourable !

Damn, you get so upset when pantsed.

[bush_cheney2004]

No shame for me. Its legal. If it bothers you so much you could protest.

Wow, you lie too! So honourable !

Damn, you get so upset when pantsed.

Killing puppies is legal too....why do you "lie"? Today many puppies will be killed in your "honour".

I started another thread on Canada's legacy of cruelty to animals since it upsets you so much to discuss it here.

I am sensitive to your hurt feelings, even after your blatant personal insults.

[Guest American Woman]

That does not surprise me he is gone to "safe keeping" . Smart move.

But what is weird about all this is who put it up on YouTube , and why?

Being at war cannot be a whole lot of fun. The constant stress must take its toll and for someone to just up and throw a puppy over a cliff is either born deranged or under stress severe enough to alter his good judgement.Who knows, but I will take the later. In the end, it may not matter if he faces charges.

But collectively , just what did they think would happen when it hit YouTube , a sudden wealth of fans and fame a la William Hung ?

And why? Vendetta? Pissed off at the USMC ?

Origionally shown on LiveLeak over a month ago this video has gained much attention on the net in the last couple of days. link

I'm not sure what kind of website LiveLeak is, but I'm guessing someone saw it on that site and reposted it on YouTube. Not surprising that someone would do that, really.

As for how LiveLeak got ahold of it, I wonder about that. I have to wonder how many copies there are of this video out there. I suppose whoever originally made it public did so for the same reasons the person who made the tape of the British troops beating up the Iraqi kids public-- out of disgust for the deed. Although it very well could have been a vendetta, too.

[Shakeyhands]

not to make light of this, but the video that follows is pretty funny...

http://www.break.com/index/puppies-get-rev...-on-marine.html