Top Ten signs you are a leftist idiot

[Sir Bandelot]

When you rail against the name calling that goes towards the 'right' as well we will take your 'suggestion' into advisement, but not until then.

Certainly. I do not approve of it in any case, right, left or up, down. I don't want to provoke you. I only mention it because I was reading the forum rules this morning, and then I read this post. The rules are there to improve the quality of the debate.

[bush_cheney2004]

Certainly. I do not approve of it in any case, right, left or up, down. I don't want to provoke you. I only mention it because I was reading the forum rules this morning, and then I read this post. The rules are there to improve the quality of the debate.

Censorship is far less welcomed...at least I would hope so. We post at the pleasure of our host, but pure "quality" is boring.

[M.Dancer]

We post at the pleasure of our host, but pure "quality" is boring.

Indeed. That's why I never skip past one of your posts....

[GostHacked]

Hmm how much of a leftie am I.

The ones that I agree with are.

3. I do believe that all cultures are equally valid.

4. Iraq sure was not about freedom. But I am just an idiot.

5 . Taking a country to war should never be an easy decision. Avoid war whenever possible.

7. Yeah, inside job. I am actually in this camp, but we are sooooo left, we need tinfoil to stand out in that crowd.

10. I will support the troops when I do not support the war. It's kind of related to your first question in the way of understanding the difference.

[M.Dancer]

Hmm how much of a leftie am I.

The ones that I agree with are.

3. I do believe that all cultures are equally valid.

Is slavery, human sacrifice and female mutilation valid if they are part of someone's culture?

[GostHacked]

Is slavery, human sacrifice and female mutilation valid if they are part of someone's culture?

About as valid as Christianity was based on the sacrafice of Jesus who was mutilated on a cross. Some cultures just take longer to evolve. It is also linked to education and having an open mind.

To those cultures, the practices are valid. It is parts of the culture I do not agree with or think should be valid. But that should not invalidate the culture as a whole. Praying to a false god should not be part of cultures, but it is. I consider this mental mutilation.

[M.Dancer]

About as valid as Christianity was based on the sacrafice of Jesus who was mutilated on a cross. Some cultures just take longer to evolve. It is also linked to education and having an open mind.

To those cultures, the practices are valid. It is parts of the culture I do not agree with or think should be valid. But that should not invalidate the culture as a whole. Praying to a false god should not be part of cultures, but it is. I consider this mental mutilation.

So an unwilling sacrifice is the same as a person condemed to death and deified?

In that case, someone going to church in your mind is no different and equally as valid as someone who eats the hearts of sacrificial victims.

So you see, from our perspective, cultures that have at their core values that are inconsistant with mordern morals are worthy of standing or equal respect.

[Hcheh]

So an unwilling sacrifice is the same as a person condemed to death and deified?

In that case, someone going to church in your mind is no different and equally as valid as someone who eats the hearts of sacrificial victims.

So you see, from our perspective, cultures that have at their core values that are inconsistant with mordern morals are worthy of standing or equal respect.

We obviously have a western bias, cultural values are all subjective. It is a different matter if we agree with other societies or not, that is why we live here, not there. How do you even measure the "validity" of a culture? I do believe that every culture is equally valid, however, that doesn't mean we should convert to their ways if we don't agree with them.. Again, that is why we live here and not there. At any rate, you are comparing a moderate society with an extremist one.

[GostHacked]

So an unwilling sacrifice is the same as a person condemed to death and deified?

As I stated, some practicies of some cultures are invalid, that does not invalidate the culture as a whole. There are some practicies of modernized religions that I do not agree with, but since I am not part of that religion I go with 'to each their own'. I am agnostic/athiest, so I find most organized religions invalid.

In that case, someone going to church in your mind is no different and equally as valid as someone who eats the hearts of sacrificial victims.

Bad comparison. You are better equating the pastors/preachers with those who eat the hearts of sacraficial victims. They are the ones who perpetuate the practice. The victim(s) in both cases is the rest of the 'congregation'. Not even all christians have the same modern morals that you talk about. Even among modern western cultures, there are things about them that people will find invalid.

So you see, from our perspective, cultures that have at their core values that are inconsistant with mordern morals are worthy of standing or equal respect.

Respect is something that should be given outright untill it proves that it does not deserve respect.

Hcheh

I do believe that every culture is equally valid, however, that doesn't mean we should convert to their ways if we don't agree with them..

I agree with this 100%. We can try to educate them, but in the end, they will make up their own minds regarding conversion to another culture, or adopting new practices, or dicthing the antiquated ones.

Edited October 29, 2008 by GostHacked

[ReeferMadness]

The opening rant is largely a collection of stereotypes and non-sequitirs. It's so much easier to debate positions that you simply ascribe to a group of people rather than debating real ideas put forth by real people. The kindest thing you can say about it is it's intellectually lazy.

1. What an idiotic statement. Everyone can tell the difference between Israel and it's enemies. Israel is the one that is given high tech weapons and subsidized to the tune of billions annually. Ever notice that people who feel their interests are protected by the latest in high-tech weaponry tend not to become suicide bombers? Why would they? On the other hand, people who are desperately poor, feel unfairly treated and see no hope for change tend to be easy pickings for those who would use them as cannon fodder. Go figure.

2. Let's start with a blanket, absolute statement, follow it with a bunch of non-sequitirs, half-truths and commonly accepted assumptions. Then you can build the implied case that everyone is picking on the poor old Americans. Of course all of this conveniently igores the regular invasions and/or bombing of other countries, the frequent support of ruthless dictators (only right-wing ones of course), and the frequent blocking of UN resolutions (in 1986, they vetoed a UN resolution to recognize that Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran - how's that for hypocrisy?). Oh, sorry, am I magnifiying some tiny mistakes? And if the war on Vietnam can be dismissed as a "mistake", was 9/11 merely a mistake on the part of the perpetrators?

3. Whoever claimed that all cultures are equally valid? Nice straw-man argument.

4. I've found it interesting that in each of Iraq and Yugoslavia, the U.S. went in and destroyed the armed forces of regional powers that weren't kowtowing to Washington. Of course, even making that statement instantly relegates me to the tin-hat brigade because the U.S. is the first-ever super power that is only interested in doing good in the world.

5. Silly me. I've been taught that killing people and blowing things up is just plain wrong. Of course, when it's accomanied by plenty of jingoism, that changes everything. Plus, you need to restrain yourself from idiotic left-wing thoughts such as "could the rise of Nazis have been avoided had the west been more reasonable after World War I" or even "why did Hitler have so many fans in the rest of the western world?"

6. Let me see. Take a tiny country with virtually no natural resources. Impose a fifty-year trade embargo. Then compare it against weathy, industrialized countries with lots of resources to demonstrate how hopelessly backwards its leader is. Whatever you do, don't compare it with similar-sized countries run by right-wing dictators supported by you-know-who.

7. Hmmm. Do you think that leftists have a monopoly on conspiracy theories?

8. I believe that science isn't perfect but it beats the alternatives of superstition and ignorance. So, let's act on the best information we have. Can you find a reputable scientific organization that says there is no such thing as global warming or that it is not man-made? No? Then let's act to limit our impact on the planet. There are plenty of good reasons to lighten the impact on the planet even if it turns out the global warming theories aren't exactly right.

9. If you believe there are only 2 alternatives, this might sound intelligent to you.

10. I don't even understand what people mean when they say they 'support the troops'. Does that mean they hope the troops come home in one piece? In that case, I support the troops. Does it mean they have those stupid yellow ribbon bumper stickers on their cars?

Edited November 1, 2008 by ReeferMadness

[William Ashley]

1. You can't tell the difference between Israel and her enemies.

Both sides have committed attrocities against the general public. It is a government. The modern state of Israel in large part came into existance through illegal immigration, and terrorist "pregovernment" agression and warfare. It is not like they actually lived there prior to being granted the land by Britain, in large part. Although the Zionist movement had been ongoing before that. How would you feel is suddently Sussex or Manitoba, or California was given to foreigners, and waged war against you?

I think each country has their own identity and leadership though. It ain't all bad, but it ain't all good.

2. You believe that the United States is the greatest threat to world peace.

The US having ' the largest' military budget and a willingness to assert its foreign policy around the world. Is a threat to world peace. However there is no such thing as world peace, there has never been such a notion, and it is impossible to think it can ever be. However granted it isnt just the US rather it is individuals and governments who are unable to agree, and a world that fails to provide for peoples needs and instead provides competition and limitation.

3. You believe that all cultures are equally valid.

I don't really understand the concept of validity to culture. Each culture is unique often borrowing from other cultures through exchange. It is one big culture that we are all within. Right and wrong are questions, humanity is very much universial, but the environmental effects, and notion is contrasted in this world. It is impossible to live a free moral life, because the world is owned, and offers no liberties to the individual, it is a police state, in a tainted world. There may be some places that offer freedom from corrupt influences of the modern world, but being raised in captivity even the notions of survival decimate the human mind and render one to the hands of god. Life of course is that with blinders. Thus morality is solely a question of ones purpose as the will of god.

4. You believe that Iraq 2.0 is all about oil.

I don't think it is all about oil, but once again, I didn't see the need of sanctions on Iraq or enforcement of a no fly zone. None the less I could see how those nations closer to the area might have liked containement to the 3rd largest army in the world, Iraq. None the less what ifs arn't all to useful in the here and now.

5. You believe that war is not the answer.

Answer to what? War is a waste of resource. The more militants the more potential for deaths. The more war technology the more destructive the capacity for war. Life will continue, it is unfortunate we are trained to destroy the planet rather than grow it. I think that is a serious failing of the military. We need militaries that are active in helping build infrastructure and assisting things on a daily basis. There is nothing wrong with self defence, however, with that need the world would not be the same. The world is not wholely physical regardless. One can choose to die or to resist damage to interests. White washing and the lines of morality are then presented. What is the point? What is the goal, what is valued? This may differ from indivdidual to individual, government to government, culture to culture.

6. You believe that Fidel Castro has been a positive influence for Cuba

Fidel implemented a lot of programs that seemed to be benificial for cuba, especially education. However I am not sure i can say what if, or what caused what. I simply don't know enough about the man or the council etc.. However I would say Fidel had less public human rights abuses in his reign than GW Bush did in his. Unless you count Guantanmo as bieng under Fidels authority and not GW Bush... but even then the Gaut probably wouldn't tip the scale.

7. You believe that 9/11 was an inside job.

I don't know.

8. You believe we should sign the Kyoto Protocol.

I think that people need to really consider this, and we need to have a clear picture on it. We need to invest in clean technologies. These targets are secondary. What we need to do is take away environmental pollution. Make 0 emissions factories and energy producers, and stop dumping toxic substances into our water supply. We need to plant trees, fruit trees and other useful for agroforesty, and we need to stop mass rape of the forests. We need to reuse, control population, and work towards sustainable development. We need an IMF for environmental transition.

9. You believe that socialism is still the answer.

All government are socialist, it is just how many people are included in the government. Also how active the government is. What exactly is the point?

10. You support the troops but don't support the war.

I think both the Iraq war and Afghanistan war were not needed. As for support, not sure what that means. I think everyone has their own reason for joining the military. Some of those I might be able to fully respect, while others I wouldn't.

Edited November 2, 2008 by William Ashley

[M.Dancer]

Both sides have committed attrocities against the general public.

It is a government.

The modern state of Israel in large part came into existance through illegal immigration, and terrorist "pregovernment" agression and warfare.

It is not like they actually lived there prior to being granted the land by Britain, in large part.

Although the Zionist movement had been ongoing before that.

How would you feel is suddently Sussex or Manitoba, or California was given to foreigners, and waged war against you?

Well. # 1 pegged you bang to rights.

[Hcheh]

Both sides have committed attrocities against the general public. It is a government. The modern state of Israel in large part came into existance through illegal immigration, and terrorist "pregovernment" agression and warfare. It is not like they actually lived there prior to being granted the land by Britain, in large part. Although the Zionist movement had been ongoing before that. How would you feel is suddently Sussex or Manitoba, or California was given to foreigners, and waged war against you?

Yeah, I don't particularly agree with either side, they are just as bad as each other

[M.Dancer]

Yeah, I don't particularly agree with either side, they are just as bad as each other

Yeah those terrorist Israeli Hijackers disturb my evenings rest...

[Hcheh]

Yeah those terrorist Israeli Hijackers disturb my evenings rest...

Well, maybe not in a practical sense, but I cannot find myself siding with either ideology. They are both pretty hateful

Edit: Of course, I am not speaking against all of them ; its just that both sides have their share of extremists and such

Edited November 3, 2008 by Hcheh

[White Doors]

Well, maybe not in a practical sense, but I cannot find myself siding with either ideology. They are both pretty hateful

Edit: Of course, I am not speaking against all of them ; its just that both sides have their share of extremists and such

Yeah, that democracy is some scary shit

[Hcheh]

Yeah, that democracy is some scary shit

religious extremists are some scary people

[White Doors]

religious extremists are some scary people

yeah, those crazy joos blowing themselves up at Palestinian markets...

wait..

[Hcheh]

yeah, those crazy joos blowing themselves up at Palestinian markets...

wait..

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/extremists.html

http://current.com/items/89421496_israeli_...ns_in_west_bank

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp890nXTJ44

yep. Nobody is innocent in this shit, both sides have blood on their hands

[White Doors]

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/extremists.html

http://current.com/items/89421496_israeli_...ns_in_west_bank

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp890nXTJ44

yep. Nobody is innocent in this shit, both sides have blood on their hands

understandable that all of your evidence is quite clearly from anti-Israeli sites.

Notwithstanding that there are always crackpots on both sides, the majority of the crackpots are from one side and you have the wrong one here I am afraid.

[Hcheh]

understandable that all of your evidence is quite clearly from anti-Israeli sites.

Notwithstanding that there are always crackpots on both sides, the majority of the crackpots are from one side and you have the wrong one here I am afraid.

it doesn't matter where I linked it from, look up the stories on Google.

Anyhow.. sure, perhaps there are more crackpots on one side, but that doesn't justify the Israeli people. At best that just makes them the "lesser of the two evils".

Don't get me wrong, I am not supporting the Palestinians or anything, I don't really support either one. They both have some owning up to do, neither of them have been very honourable to me.

*edit: I never disputed the fact that most the extremists probably on the Palestinian side

Edited November 3, 2008 by Hcheh

[White Doors]

it doesn't matter where I linked it from, look up the stories on Google.

Um, yes it does where it is linked from..?

you do realize that some organizations 'report' things to further an agenda, correct?

In fact, your first link even spells out their agenda when you click on 'about us'.

Another fact, they claim that Israel receives more money from the US than all other ME countries combines and that is simply a factual error. Egypt alone receives almost as much as Israel. That took me all of 30 seconds to find.

If you are so easily led around by your nose, I have some great real-estate deals for you..

[Hcheh]

Um, yes it does where it is linked from..?

you do realize that some organizations 'report' things to further an agenda, correct?

In fact, your first link even spells out their agenda when you click on 'about us'.

Another fact, they claim that Israel receives more money from the US than all other ME countries combines and that is simply a factual error. Egypt alone receives almost as much as Israel. That took me all of 30 seconds to find.

If you are so easily led around by your nose, I have some great real-estate deals for you..

well I did post that story from two different sources, as I said - you can look up the stories for yourself, I just linked whatever came up first on Google.

and the fact remains, the Israelis may be the lesser of the two evils, but that doesn't really justify anything. No one is innocent in this mess, it isn't a struggle between good and evil and it isn't comparing black and white.

[White Doors]

well I did post that story from two different sources, as I said - you can look up the stories for yourself, I just linked whatever came up first on Google.

and the fact remains, the Israelis may be the lesser of the two evils, but that doesn't really justify anything. No one is innocent in this mess, it isn't a struggle between good and evil and it isn't comparing black and white.

Ok, maybe more like an egg-shell white and flat black.

[Hcheh]

Ok, maybe more like an egg-shell white and flat black.

no it's not.. both sides have redeeming justifications and both sides have participated in misconduct (as we said, perhaps the Palestinians have done more wrong than the Israelis). It isn't about the good guys fighting the bad guys here.. Besides, it is not very unusual, most world conflicts are very gray and not very divide in terms of good and evil. Unless, in my opinion, it is about genocide or whatever.