Is publishing Danish cartoons in Canada a "crime"?

normanchateau · January 11, 2008

Today at 2:00 Ezra Levant is to be interrogated by the Alberta Human Rights Commission for the political crime of publishing cartoons which were offensive to some members of the Calgary community. This is not a federal issue. On the other hand, it doesn't fit neatly into any forum on this website. Those who care about free speech might find this story of interest:

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.ht...cb1&k=90175

Here are the cartoons:

http://ezralevant.com/2008/01/my-visit-to-...aroo-court.html

I make no apologies for violating anyone's human rights by posting the link to the cartoons. In my opinion it was shameful that most Canadian media refused to publish them.

JerrySeinfeld · January 11, 2008

Today at 2:00 Ezra Levant is to be interrogated by the Alberta Human Rights Commission for the political crime of publishing cartoons which were offensive to some members of the Calgary community. This is not a federal issue. On the other hand, it doesn't fit neatly into any forum on this website. Those who care about free speech might find this story of interest:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.ht...cb1&k=90175

Here are the cartoons:

http://ezralevant.com/2008/01/my-visit-to-...aroo-court.html

I make no apologies for violating anyone's human rights by posting the link to the cartoons. In my opinion it was shameful that most Canadian media refused to publish them.

Hear hear.

This is a complete travesty and if this complaint, along with the one against Steyn, is successful, look out Canada - we will be changed forever.

Think of the chill going through newsrooms across the country.

If no public discourse about Islam is allowed (ie. freedom of speech), then what is next?

It's sickening that our own laws and bias toward tolerance are continuously being used ( in this country and in other western democracies) to shut us up and deny uis our basic fundamental rights. Disgusting.

This is very scary indeed. Very scary.

Edited January 11, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld

normanchateau · January 11, 2008

This is a complete travesty and if this complaint, along with the one against Steyn, is successful, look out Canada - we will be changed forever.

I had forgotten about the Canadian fatwa against Mark Steyn. Here's one version of the story for those who missed it:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/7632

JB Globe · January 11, 2008

This is a complete travesty and if this complaint, along with the one against Steyn, is successful, look out Canada - we will be changed forever.

It seems like every time a piece of hate speech gets banned we hear "Canada will be changed forever" - of course it will - a different kind of hate speech will get banned. And that is all.

Discussion of Islam will not stop, criticism of Islam will not stop. The only thing that will is hateful attacks on a religion and its people in general.

The sky didn't start falling when we kicked Zundel out of the country, and it won't if Levant gets convicted of anything.

Think of the chill going through newsrooms across the country.

Considering no respectable news organizations bothered to print the cartoons, I doubt they're feeling any chill. According to folks I know in the industry, it wasn't because "they were scared to" it was because if you're going to publish something that's offensive, there'd better be a huge benefit, and in this case there wasn't - the OFFENSIVE cartoons in question were borderline amatuerish in their simplicity, and wouldn't have made the cut in editorial pages based on their quality. Their "satire" was shallow and simplistic.

If no public discourse about Islam is allowed (ie. freedom of speech), then what is next?

Show me where anyone is banning public discourse of Islam.

You said it, now go ahead and prove it.

normanchateau · January 11, 2008

It seems like every time a piece of hate speech gets banned we hear "Canada will be changed forever"

So you view the Danish cartoons as hate speech?

DogOnPorch · January 11, 2008

So you view the Danish cartoons as hate speech?

Yeah...I was going to say the same thing...

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We do it your way at Burger King.

DogOnPorch · January 11, 2008

Seeing this is what caused the real fuss...completely faked by the Imam who went to the Middle-East to make sure everyone got upset about it....who's hating who?

http://www.neandernews.com/?p=54

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To say to the 20 million Muslims of Europe, if they want to live here they should accept being insulted - that is not the way forward for any of us.

---Taji Mustafa

normanchateau · January 11, 2008

The sky didn't start falling when we kicked Zundel out of the country, and it won't if Levant gets convicted of anything.

Zundel, a German citizen, was deported to Germany in 2005 because a Canadian Federal Court deemed that he was a threat to national security. Germany convicted him of hate crimes in 2007 and the conviction was upheld after Zundel appealed to the German Federal Court of Justice. By contrast, Zundel's two Canadian convictions for hate speech, one in 1985 and one in 1988, were both overturned by the Supreme Court of Canada.

Why should Levant be convicted of anything? How are the Danish cartoons republished by Levant analogous to Zundel's hate speech? To help you answer the second question, here's a quote from Zundel:

"Wherever we look, we White people find ourselves besieged by peoples of other races who compete aggressively against us for jobs, food, housing, education and above all -- power! The Jews are particularly adept at seizing or insinuating themselves into strategic positions in our society where they wield power far beyond the extent of their numbers....Through us, the White majority of Europe and America, the Jewish minority have obtained their advantages, including their Israel, their Federal Reserve, their World Bank and their International Monetary Fund. In exchange for these advantages, the Jews give us -- their White hosts -- wars, depressions, inflation, unemployment, energy shortages, higher and higher taxes and air piracy. Like sheep, they expect us to go down the road with them -- all the way to the kosher slaughterhouse. We White people of America have done nothing so far which would frustrate the Jews' expectations or their ambitions of becoming the world's slavemasters."

DogOnPorch · January 11, 2008

Or...sorry to go on and on...lol...here's my personal favorite.

The same Imam (Ahmed Akkari) who started all the cartoon fuss had to be evacuated from Lebanon during the last 'war' by the Danish government via cruise ship. Well...that's how he got to Denmark in the first place. He and his family were evacuated from Lebanon before during the civil war and granted asylum. There's even more...but it's just easier to read his wiki (see link above) if you're really that interested.

He has an odd way of showing thanks...I thought.

Oh...and he was convicted for beating-up an 11 year old boy in 2001.

:huh: :blink:

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Butthead: Since you're like the President, would you go to a third world country in a helicopter, and say "I am the President of the United States, the most powerful country in the world, bow down and kiss my butt!!"

Beavis: Yea! And the streets will flow with the blood of the non-believers.

---Butthead & Beavis, to Bill Clinton

Edited January 11, 2008 by DogOnPorch

AngusThermopyle · January 11, 2008

Show me where anyone is banning public discourse of Islam.
You said it, now go ahead and prove it.

I dont believe the intent was to state that a ban is in place or will be in place. I believe that the poster meant to say that big things can develop from small beggining's. In this case it would be an effort to silence anything critical of Islam. As such the implication would be a very serious one that could lead Canada to a situation such as that currently being endured in Europe.

I don't know what your thoughts are on the issue. Myself, I'm very disturbed at what I see happening. Unless one actually wanted to be Muslim and live under the laws and cultural influences of Islam then of course one would certainly be disturbed by these elements. I for one do not want Islam being rammed up my ass like it is in Europe.

Of course you could argue that this isn't happening, but, in that case you'd be wrong. I just read an article that stated people are leaving European countries in record numbers to avoid Islam and the vocal Muslim crowd who view Europeans as animalistic barbarians to be subjugated or eliminated. Given these circumstances I cant say I blame them for leaving.

The fear is that once we start to stifle critiscism it grants certain groups the freedom required to forward an agenda without interference. I personally do believe such an agenda exists and further take offence to any group that tries to stifle honest dissent. Perhaps you believe these people should be permitted or even helped in the advancement of their agenda. If so that is your right, it however is a belief I do not share. Such is my right and any who try to suppress it are not going to receive any form of sympathetic understanding from me.

normanchateau · January 11, 2008

The same Imam (Ahmed Akkari) who started all the cartoon fuss had to be evacuated from Lebanon during the last 'war' by the Danish government via cruise ship. Well...that's how he got to Denmark in the first place.

Yes, and he's the same Imam who threatened to kill a moderate Danish Islamic leader who opposed violent protests over the cartoons:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/010719.php

Ultimately 50 people were killed and hundreds more were injured during the protests and thanks to the Alberta Human Rights Commission, Ezra Levant is the latest victim of Ahmed Akkari.

Wilber · January 12, 2008

Considering no respectable news organizations bothered to print the cartoons, I doubt they're feeling any chill. According to folks I know in the industry, it wasn't because "they were scared to" it was because if you're going to publish something that's offensive, there'd better be a huge benefit, and in this case there wasn't - the OFFENSIVE cartoons in question were borderline amatuerish in their simplicity, and wouldn't have made the cut in editorial pages based on their quality. Their "satire" was shallow and simplistic.

Hardly convincing considering what is now going on with Levant and Steyn. They obviously should have been very afraid.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Wilber

normanchateau · January 12, 2008

Here are Ezra Levant's opening remarks to the Alberta Human Rights Commission this afternoon:

"My name is Ezra Levant. Before this government interrogation begins, I will make a statement.

When the Western Standard magazine printed the Danish cartoons ... two years ago, I was the publisher. It was the proudest moment of my public life. I would do it again today. In fact, I did do it again today. Though the Western Standard, sadly, no longer publishes a print edition, I posted the cartoons this morning on my website, ezralevant.com."

http://ezralevant.com/2008/01/kangaroo-court.html

This absurd interrogation of Ezra Levant is not Canada's proudest moment. I am surprised that he has not received more support from either side of the political spectrum.

Wilber · January 12, 2008

Here are Ezra Levant's opening remarks to the Alberta Human Rights Commission this afternoon:
"My name is Ezra Levant. Before this government interrogation begins, I will make a statement.

When the Western Standard magazine printed the Danish cartoons ... two years ago, I was the publisher. It was the proudest moment of my public life. I would do it again today. In fact, I did do it again today. Though the Western Standard, sadly, no longer publishes a print edition, I posted the cartoons this morning on my website, ezralevant.com."

http://ezralevant.com/2008/01/kangaroo-court.html

This absurd interrogation of Ezra Levant is not Canada's proudest moment. I am surprised that he has not received more support from either side of the political spectrum.

Unfortunately our human rights commissions have gone on a power trip and instead of protecting rights they are taking sides and imposing their morality on others. Time to reign them in and leave such things to the courts where they belong and will be judged according to the law, not by who screams the loudest.

jbg · January 12, 2008

This absurd interrogation of Ezra Levant is not Canada's proudest moment. I am surprised that he has not received more support from either side of the political spectrum.

This is one of Canada's proudest moments and people:

"My name is Ezra Levant. Before this government interrogation begins, I will make a statement.
When the Western Standard magazine printed the Danish cartoons ... two years ago, I was the publisher. It was the proudest moment of my public life. I would do it again today. In fact, I did do it again today. Though the Western Standard, sadly, no longer publishes a print edition, I posted the cartoons this morning on my website, ezralevant.com."

http://ezralevant.com/2008/01/kangaroo-court.html

This link contains an extensive discussion of the kind of free speech I think best. Suffice to say that there is little middle ground on the issue of free speech.

Edited January 12, 2008 by jbg

Oleg Bach · January 12, 2008

This is one of Canada's proudest moments and people:
This link contains an extensive discussion of the kind of free speech I think best. Suffice to say that there is little middle ground on the issue of free speech.

Don't publish anything that will piss off the fanatics. My dear old dead mother loved conflict - once I told her to no irritate my younger bother...quote "Mum don't put your hand into a snarling dogs mouth". Free speech has limitations..if there is the chance that saying something or publishing something that will further craze the crazies - well shut up - sometimes you have to be quiet and wise ....why stir up the hornets nest - are you nuts?

Michael Hardner · January 12, 2008

I believe that the poster meant to say that big things can develop from small beggining's.

Angus,

I believe this, and I believe this is exactly why Human Rights Commissions look into xenophobic propaganda to determine what is over the line, and what is not.

Some have put forward that only direct calls to violence should be considered hate speech, but hardly any Nazi propaganda ever went that far: it simply painted Jews as conspirators, as a threat, and as less-than-human.

Many on this thread are over-reacting, and are misrepresenting what is happening here. Again, this shows that information can be dangerous and needs to be checked, examined and sometimes investigated.

M.Dancer · January 12, 2008

Given that danish humour is an acquired taste, usualy acquired under duress, I think publishing danish cartoons is akin to selling sulpher jello.

Olaf: I went to work late this morning and found my boss having sex with my wife.

Kaar: Don't you mean you came home from work early and caught your wife?

Olaf: Oh yes!

Moxie · January 12, 2008

This is another attack on Canadian Values and our beliefs. It is a direct attempt by Political Islamists to enforce Sharia Law on Non-Muslims. Under Sharia Law pictures of Mad Mo are illegal, under our current criminal code we can draw Mo and suffer no criminal prosecution. The fact that the complaint was allowed to precede should scare ALL Canadians, I don't care what upsets or insults Muslims. Contrary to the far lefts' assertion hurt feelings isn't a crime yet. I'm not a Muslim nor will I allow a communist organization such as the HRC to dictate and enforce 7th Century Islamic Law upon me.

Call this issue what you will, but I am convinced this is just another step by Political Islamists to silence those that believe Radical and Political Islamists are a threat to our future freedoms and beliefs. It sickens me that they use our democratic laws and our Leftard Organizations to silence us. Eurabia has been been silenced, so shall we be, Canadians apparently are willing to have Islamic Law enforced upon us. When the complaintant wins, it is enforcement of Sharia Law.

When they are done with us Conservatives they will go after the Left's ideals, then there will be no one left to speak. They won't stop at Conservatives, the left just think they will. Blind Mice............

The only Human Rights Violation I am aware of is the persecution of Levant for exercising his Chartered Right to Freedom of Expression. Have these Islamist no shame.

Michael Hardner · January 12, 2008

This is another attack on Canadian Values and our beliefs. It is a direct attempt by Political Islamists to enforce Sharia Law on Non-Muslims. Under Sharia Law pictures of Mad Mo are illegal, under our current criminal code we can draw Mo and suffer no criminal prosecution. The fact that the complaint was allowed to precede should scare ALL Canadians, I don't care what upsets or insults Muslims. Contrary to the far lefts' assertion hurt feelings isn't a crime yet. I'm not a Muslim nor will I allow a communist organization such as the HRC to dictate and enforce 7th Century Islamic Law upon me.
Call this issue what you will, but I am convinced this is just another step by Political Islamists to silence those that believe Radical and Political Islamists are a threat to our future freedoms and beliefs. It sickens me that they use our democratic laws and our Leftard Organizations to silence us. Eurabia has been been silenced, so shall we be, Canadians apparently are willing to have Islamic Law enforced upon us. When the complaintant wins, it is enforcement of Sharia Law.

When they are done with us Conservatives they will go after the Left's ideals, then there will be no one left to speak. They won't stop at Conservatives, the left just think they will. Blind Mice............

The only Human Rights Violation I am aware of is the persecution of Levant for exercising his Chartered Right to Freedom of Expression. Have these Islamist no shame.

Moxie,

The limits to expression, and criticism of groups is indeed an area for discussion or concern but if you want to engage in that discussion, you shouldn't overstate the case to say that we're being 'silenced' or that we're bringing in Sharia Law. When you do so, you effectively take yourself out of the serious debate and there is one less person to argue your side.

Wild Bill · January 12, 2008

Moxie,
The limits to expression, and criticism of groups is indeed an area for discussion or concern but if you want to engage in that discussion, you shouldn't overstate the case to say that we're being 'silenced' or that we're bringing in Sharia Law. When you do so, you effectively take yourself out of the serious debate and there is one less person to argue your side.

Not quite. He may have used a bit of hyperbole but it is obvious that if the HRC case wins so do those who wish to implement Sharia Law. Such advocates would not be the first group to use different issues as cover to further their own goals.