Oleg Bach Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 How about this...instead of ceos making 10 to 50 mill a year (and more), we actually pay a living wage to the people who actually work to produce the wealth for said ceo, or is that too complicated for you righties? Dellusion enforced by greed the great false hope. Lotteries - present false hope and greed to millions - instead of making a prize of 30 million for one individual, why not make gambling more practical and of better use? Currently you have one idot who gets 30 mill and his sole purpose in life is buy his cat and dog toys..what a waste of currency. Give 60 people half a million dollars instead and really stimulate the economy and give the odd visionary the power to fulfill dreams that will actually be good for us. You as "how bad is it?" How low we have fallen? Lets get one thing straight here - we are no a free society - Canada is just a real fancey prison - not the best nation in the world but the finest most humane jail - but still a jail. Look at the average person - all under duress - and the powers that be now attack even the rich to show them who is boss. Look at Lord Black - at Paris Hilton - at poor Britany Spears - who they torment through her love for her children - no one is safe from abuse...that is how bad it has gotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Dellusion enforced by greed the great false hope. Lotteries - present false hope and greed to millions - instead of making a prize of 30 million for one individual, why not make gambling more practical and of better use? Currently you have one idot who gets 30 mill and his sole purpose in life is buy his cat and dog toys..what a waste of currency. Give 60 people half a million dollars instead and really stimulate the economy and give the odd visionary the power to fulfill dreams that will actually be good for us. You as "how bad is it?" How low we have fallen? Lets get one thing straight here - we are no a free society - Canada is just a real fancey prison - not the best nation in the world but the finest most humane jail - but still a jail. Look at the average person - all under duress - and the powers that be now attack even the rich to show them who is boss. Look at Lord Black - at Paris Hilton - at poor Britany Spears - who they torment through her love for her children - no one is safe from abuse...that is how bad it has gotten. Ah but you don't get it, do you....? The point of the $30 mil prize means that the winner will spend foolishly (I remember reading that winners usually spend their gain in about 7 years) and spread that money around, thereby reinforcing the consumerism frenzy. In turn those consumed funds spur others on to consume and improve the economy. And then it all goes back to government in taxes. That's the goal. Not for someone to win $millions and hoard it under some mattress. If all the winners just buried the money, or sunk it into the black market the government would quickly put an end to lotteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iForgot Posted January 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) My fathers take on society: Todays society has become an "anything goes" culture where pop culture and materialism starting in the 1960's continue to replace real culture, which has had a major hand into turning our society into a sewer of degeneracy and perversion. Its normalization and the attempt to put all lifestyles on an "equal" status also harms the sacredness of the traditional lifestyle. This last thing is very important to understand as we look around at all of the marriages that end in divorce. There are many reasons for this, but the fact that people have been taught to no longer view the traditional one man one woman lifestyle as being any kind of standard in which to shoot for and commit to as something that is above other lifestyles, is a part of the picture.For example; homosexuality. I don't have a problem with homosexuals doing what they want behind closed doors, but I do have a problem with the glamorization of homosexuality to the extent that gays are portrayed as a higher status group than heterosexuals in the media and entertainment industries, homosexualizes our culture by mainstreaming homosexual VALUES, not by by increasing the actual PRACTICE of homosexuality. The promotion of homosexuality helps to create a society that is more selfish, vain, and pleasure seeking, and fosters a concept of social worth that is validated by consumption and display of status purchases. If homosexuality was only about sex, the culture masters wouldn't be remotely interested in it. Those who are responsible are mocked by the irresponsible modern generation and are casually dismissed as "old fashioned" and told to "get with the new times". What do you guys think of this?? Edited January 5, 2008 by iForgot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 My fathers take on society:What do you guys think of this?? Two things: Todays society has become an "anything goes" culture where pop culture and materialism starting in the 1960's continue to replace real culture... That might have been true in the 90's. However, now pop culture is being replaced by corporate culture and the traditional family is replaced by the corporate family to a degree that it is even more important than spouses and children. Those who are responsible are mocked by the irresponsible modern generation and are casually dismissed as "old fashioned" and told to "get with the new times". Baby boomers are anything but responsible people. They were the "me" generation and in turn created the "instant gratification" generation. Their irresponsibility left their spouses and children on their own while they themselves took anything they wanted or needed without consideration of the consequences. No doubt they inherited their selfishness from absent fathers and working mothers. However, none of them were responsible enough to stop and think long enough to see the harm they were doing in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 My fathers take on society:What do you guys think of this?? The promotion of homosexuality is an insidious movement meant to destroy the last of our great and talented breeding stock. I saw it on the bus the other night - a handsome and powerful and bright young man sat with a couple of females - good anglo stock - this guy was girlified and will never breed because he has been conditioned to put something in his mouth other than food or drink - in a former more civilized time - this fine young man would have married and raised a family - and created fine and intelligent children that would contribute - but now - right from childhood if a man shows any sophistication or the slightest hint of a female side - he is pushed down the homo--path by our system. This is indirect race suicide. Whether intentionally conspriatorial or not - the results is the same - the loss of high quality human beings in the future - and it is not the so-called gay community enforcing this "give up breeding attitude" or the forfiet of traditional manhood - it is the twitty soccer moms that take great glee into turning their sons in to non-breeding daughters while society supports this ugly usery - that is gleeful to the point of idoicy. I weep for what has happened to our best - ending up childless with a penis inserted where waste product is to exit..what a waste - to look forward and see that inferiours condone and enforce the extinction of our best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Yes I see that is important to you and many others. NO doubt you will take advantage of this:Walmart to open 24 hours This ultra modern PC that I am on is a tool, just like my table saw and my shovel. No not really, Any peasant society can make a shovel but it takes an ultra modern society like the one you are so indignanty aboout to concieve and create let alone use a PC. It took thousand and thousands of consumers to get you to the point where you could spout sopnomoronic marxism on a PC. Try doing that with a shovel..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 My fathers take on society:What do you guys think of this?? There's enough folks still reproducing that who cares about missing a few gays. You could make an argument against allowing breeding age females becoming nuns by that sort of illogic. As far as spreading negative values, there may indeed be a point. Some sage once commented that "The love that dare not say its name is now the love that won't shut up!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Actually yes. Corvettes price tags are up to 5 times the price of a Cobalt. So you would expect those Vette workers to be making more money. It is a luxury item, and more design and care should go into the production of the Vette. It is a coveted item, not many can afford it. If those workers are not making the same wages, then some fat cats in the company are. Why would the people working on one assembly line earn more than people doing exactly the same work for the same company in the same country? Do you envision a system where workers would arrive at the factory and have fistfights to see who gets to work on the Corvette line and who's stuck earning a fraction of the money doing ? The Corvette costs far more than the Cobalt for reasons unrelated to the efforts of the people who are working on the assembly line: -incorporates more features, luxury items, gizmos, gadgets, etc. -incorporates expensive high-performance parts (the 500hp V8 probably costs more than the whole Cobalt...) -lower volume production -styling, marketting -the company deliberately sets pricing of Cobalts lower (ie, accepts a minimal profit margin per car) to try to maintain a market share and to try to boost sales of its more fuel efficient cars for reasons relating to the calculation of its CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) number, which is sales weighted (sell one 40mpg compact and one 10mpg SUV and your CAFE is 25mpg. Sell ten 40mpg compacts and one 10mpg SUV and your CAFE is 37mpg). Did the guy on the Corvette assembly line design the 500hp V8? Did he design the beautiful styling? Did he create the mystique that makes otherwise-sensible people plunk down $70,000 for a car that doesn't even have a back seat? Did he pay for the $500 tires or $3000 rims out of his own pocket? No? None of that? Then what did this guy do that makes his contribution to this car worth so much more than his friend who does the same job in a cheaper car? And in most cases it is robots doing the work, the robot in the Cobalt factory does not bitch about the wages the robot in the Vette factory works at. They both make nothing. (so all these thousands of people that GM employs in Canada, they're just standing around doing nothing?) A house that sells in White Rock doesn't cost 10x as much as one in southeast Surrey because the crew that built the frames and dug the foundation and poured the concrete are 10x better at their jobs than the guys who worked on the cheaper house. Swap the crews, and the projects still both get built, with no discernible difference in quality, and the house in White Rock still costs 10x more. So why should they be paid any differently? If this was some sort of a collective where the workers all put in some money to buy the land and the inputs, and get together to decide what to build, and hire someone to design a house for them to build, and were involved in it to that extent, then obviously they own the project and they're entitled to divvy up the proceeds of the sale. But if their involvement in the project consists of pour concrete, then they get paid like guys who pour concrete, whether they do it in White Rock or in southeast Surrey. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 My fathers take on society:For example; homosexuality. I don't have a problem with homosexuals doing what they want behind closed doors, but I do have a problem with the glamorization of homosexuality to the extent that gays are portrayed as a higher status group than heterosexuals in the media and entertainment industries, homosexualizes our culture by mainstreaming homosexual VALUES, not by by increasing the actual PRACTICE of homosexuality. The promotion of homosexuality helps to create a society that is more selfish, vain, and pleasure seeking, and fosters a concept of social worth that is validated by consumption and display of status purchases. If homosexuality was only about sex, the culture masters wouldn't be remotely interested in it.What do you guys think of this?? For some reason I picture Grand-dad Simpson standing on his porch, shaking his feeble fist in the air and shouting "GIT OFF MY LAWN, YOU DERNED HOMOS!" as I read this. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1765 Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 For example; homosexuality. I don't have a problem with homosexuals doing what they want behind closed doors, but I do have a problem with the glamorization of homosexuality to the extent that gays are portrayed as a higher status group than heterosexuals in the media and entertainment industries, homosexualizes our culture by mainstreaming homosexual VALUES, not by by increasing the actual PRACTICE of homosexuality. The promotion of homosexuality helps to create a society that is more selfish, vain, and pleasure seeking, and fosters a concept of social worth that is validated by consumption and display of status purchases. If homosexuality was only about sex, the culture masters wouldn't be remotely interested in it. Now that is a good one! Higher status in the media and entertainment industries? Hah, the mere mention of someone being gay (for example: dumbledore) caused outrage among the anti-gay community. Heck, if these people can't find a gay fictional character to obsess over, they'll just make one up (spongebob, tinky winky). So to say that gays are portrayed as a higher status is laughable. If that were true, why are so many homosexuals afraid to come out of the closet? You'd think if homosexuals were somehow a "higher status" that people would want to come out of the closet, and that it would be heterosexuals who were afraid of their sexuality, no? And how the heck does the "promotion of homosexuality" help to create a society that is selfish? If seeing spongebob squarepants on television gives you the urge to do something selfish, you've probably got issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 No not really, Any peasant society can make a shovel but it takes an ultra modern society like the one you are so indignanty aboout to concieve and create let alone use a PC. It took thousand and thousands of consumers to get you to the point where you could spout sopnomoronic marxism on a PC. Try doing that with a shovel..... Shut off the internet, or shut down the power. How many millions of people would starve to death because they don't know what a shovel is for? A PC is a tool that uses people everyday. People have careers and livelihoods locked into "the system" and would die without them. At least I have a trade, and survival skills, and farming skills, and hunting skills. Try to take "Deer Hunter Three" or "Guitar Hero" and eat your rewards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Shut off the internet, or shut down the power. How many millions of people would starve to death because they don't know what a shovel is for? A PC is a tool that uses people everyday. People have careers and livelihoods locked into "the system" and would die without them. At least I have a trade, and survival skills, and farming skills, and hunting skills. Try to take "Deer Hunter Three" or "Guitar Hero" and eat your rewards! You're prepared for a world where we've for some reason lost the ability to make electricity and no longer have an agricultural industry? Congratulations -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Community Advocate Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 one word that expresses the differences I see: ENTITLEMENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 You're prepared for a world where we've for some reason lost the ability to make electricity and no longer have an agricultural industry? Congratulations -k No doubt before you are dead you will have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on " just in case" insurance that you will never need, hoping that it will save you from a disaster that is just waiting around the corner. Yet, your main insurance you will never collect. The fear industry is a consumer product as well. Taking down a major power station near where you live, and having a river take out one of the major transportation networks is all that is needed to realize you don't have much time to live. Tell me Kimmy. Do you have enough water, food and winter heat to provide for you in the event that the power should go out for a week? And if you leave your house unheated (as many abandoned their homes during the ice storm of 1998, your house - its contents and structure will be unfit for human occupation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1765 Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Sorry, just had to point out the humour in this: The fear industry is a consumer product as well. and this... Tell me Kimmy. Do you have enough water, food and winter heat to provide for you in the event that the power should go out for a week? And if you leave your house unheated (as many abandoned their homes during the ice storm of 1998, your house - its contents and structure will be unfit for human occupation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Shut off the internet, or shut down the power. How many millions of people would starve to death because they don't know what a shovel is for? A PC is a tool that uses people everyday. People have careers and livelihoods locked into "the system" and would die without them. At least I have a trade, and survival skills, and farming skills, and hunting skills. Try to take "Deer Hunter Three" or "Guitar Hero" and eat your rewards! I got a better one. How many people would starve to death if the computers were turned off? Millions. Fact is without our ultra modern society we and the third world would be facing chronic starvation regularly.Our ultra modern society feeds billions. Not with shovels or pruning forks. But with computers...computers that do everything from helping agriculturalists use modern farming techniques to logistics experts who can move tons of fruit from venuzuela to ontario in the winter with nary a fruit spoiling. And that happens year round, round the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Sorry, just had to point out the humour in this:and this... "Be Prepared" Boy Scout motto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I got a better one. How many people would starve to death if the computers were turned off? Millions. Fact is without our ultra modern society we and the third world would be facing chronic starvation regularly.Our ultra modern society feeds billions. Not with shovels or pruning forks. But with computers...computers that do everything from helping agriculturalists use modern farming techniques to logistics experts who can move tons of fruit from venuzuela to ontario in the winter with nary a fruit spoiling. And that happens year round, round the world. You have true power when you can pull the plug and forget the realm of virtual foolishness - a number of years ago there was a summer storm and I had no power for days out in the country - the family talked - candles burned - we cooked out side and there was a great strengthing peace that prevailed in the household - it was wonderful - that is power - BUT - take the average technocrat and he will not know how to plant a seed to grow food - nor can he build shelter - the average man can not even light a fire for warmth, let alone slaughter a pig or rabbit. - so if fuel prices continue to increase - and food is in short supply - and famine comes after economic and social collapse or war.. - most will perish - I will not - because I am old school...and know that computers are really quite useless....they create noting that sustains life...you are delluded if you think computers feed us. Let it all fall apart...and maybe we will have honour and peace and hope in each other again - love and friendship make the world go round - not digits in a hopped up adding machine...I am not impressed with the programers either - after all this time the programs are crude and a time waster - I can write a hand written memo and get it ot the next office 5 times as fast as E-mail - and I can give change 5 times faster manually than a computer - they are not all they are cracked up to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 You have true power when you can pull the plug and forget the realm of virtual foolishness - a number of years ago there was a summer storm and I had no power for days out in the country - the family talked - candles burned - we cooked out side and there was a great strengthing peace that prevailed in the household - it was wonderful - that is power - BUT - take the average technocrat and he will not know how to plant a seed to grow food - nor can he build shelter - the average man can not even light a fire for warmth, let alone slaughter a pig or rabbit. - so if fuel prices continue to increase - and food is in short supply - and famine comes after economic and social collapse or war.. - most will perish - I will not - because I am old school...and know that computers are really quite useless....they create noting that sustains life...you are delluded if you think computers feed us. Let it all fall apart...and maybe we will have honour and peace and hope in each other again - love and friendship make the world go round - not digits in a hopped up adding machine...I am not impressed with the programers either - after all this time the programs are crude and a time waster - I can write a hand written memo and get it ot the next office 5 times as fast as E-mail - and I can give change 5 times faster manually than a computer - they are not all they are cracked up to be. I've taken a dozen or so people from the city to the country and asked them what they would eat if they had to leave their homes. THE BEST answer out of any of them was "~grass~". If they do make it out of the city in a pandemic, I hope their deaths are short and painless...although starvation rarely is either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Even if the cities collapsed and every refugee knew exactly how to forage there would be mass starvation. There isn't enough food in the wild to feed one in a 100. Anyone who thinjs they could survive under those conditions is having an adolescent fantasy moment. Cities big and small exist on the strength of their highways, railways and warehouses. and as it happens those are few and far between oin the bush. Once the game and the veg is gone, it's gone forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 seventeen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Even if the cities collapsed and every refugee knew exactly how to forage there would be mass starvation. There isn't enough food in the wild to feed one in a 100. Anyone who thinjs they could survive under those conditions is having an adolescent fantasy moment. Cities big and small exist on the strength of their highways, railways and warehouses. and as it happens those are few and far between oin the bush. Once the game and the veg is gone, it's gone forever. It isn't just the wild one needs to depend upon. There is much more available - much of it might be unappetizing but sustenance anyway - which people can eat. Anyway the majority of people who live in major cities would die first - either from gun battles and knife fights over the last McDonald's french fries in the garbage, or by starvation. Yet I would give most no more than 30 days if food were the only problem. However, most without water would be delirious after the second day and likely dead by the fifth. Greed would leave only a few wanders left. There is more than enough food to feed the remaining people, and agriculture can be started up and producing food within a month. What would fail would be the transportation networks, so only those with the skills, the tools, the seed and the know-how would be able to succeed. Life isn't about a computer simulation. It is real and potentially fatal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margrace Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) I've taken a dozen or so people from the city to the country and asked them what they would eat if they had to leave their homes. THE BEST answer out of any of them was "~grass~". If they do make it out of the city in a pandemic, I hope their deaths are short and painless...although starvation rarely is either. I can't believe that people would think they can eat grass. Do none of us know any history, in the middle 1800's over a million Irish people starved to death on the roadsides, they called it the green disease because their mouths were stained green. They were eating grass. We had people who came to use our food bank when they lost their jobs in the cities. They lost their home but still had their cottages. So they went out and bought some chickens but then found that they could not afford the food to feed them. This is just one of the misconceptions that people have. We keep a few chickens but it would be cheaper to go into our local supper market and buy the eggs. The bonus of course for us is that our eggs are fresh, you would not believe the difference in flavour. When I look around our rural area it makes me wonder about people. Homes built on the top of hills for the scenery, do you know how much more that home costs to heat in a cold windy winter day than our house down in the trees. Sure we have no view and some of our families are quite sarcastic about that but money wise we are ahead of the game. Are people better off now, well it depends on how you rate that. When I was growing up we had one room heated in the winter. On my sister and my bed we had a duvet and it was sheep wool. Jut cut from the sheep, washed and put in a washable cover. Do you know how warm that was. When we got up in the morning we grabbed our closes and ran for the big comfortable warm kitchen. Did we have flu or a lot of colds, no. Our house had a cistern in our cellar and a pump in the pantry that gave us lots of water. We carried our drinking water from the next farm. Edited January 6, 2008 by margrace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Community Advocate Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 This says it all for me: A group of graduates, well established in their careers, were talking at a reunion and decided to go visit their old university professor, now retired. During their visit, the conversation turned to complaints about stress in their work and lives. Offering his guests hot chocolate, the professor went into the kitchen and returned with a large pot of hot chocolate and an assortment of cups - porcelain, glass, crystal, some plain looking, some expensive, some exquisite - telling them to help themselves to the hot chocolate. When they all had a cup of hot chocolate in hand, the professor said: 'Notice that all the nice looking, expensive cups were taken, leaving behind the plain and cheap ones. While it is normal for you to want only the best for yourselves, that is the source of your problems and stress. The cup that you're drinking from adds nothing to the quality of the hot chocolate. In most cases it is just more expensive and in some cases even hides what we drink. What all of you really wanted was hot chocolate, not the cup; but you consciously went for the best cups... And then you began eyeing each other's cups. Now consider this: Life is the hot chocolate; your job, money and position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold and contain life. The cup you have does not define, nor change the quality of life you have. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the hot chocolate God has provided us. God makes the hot chocolate, man chooses the cups. The happiest people don't have the best of everything. They just make the best of everything that they have. Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. And enjoy your hot chocolate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) This says it all for me:A group of graduates, well established in their careers, were talking at a reunion and decided to go visit their old university professor, now retired. During their visit, the conversation turned to complaints about stress in their work and lives. Offering his guests hot chocolate, the professor went into the kitchen and returned with a large pot of hot chocolate and an assortment of cups - porcelain, glass, crystal, some plain looking, some expensive, some exquisite - telling them to help themselves to the hot chocolate. When they all had a cup of hot chocolate in hand, the professor said: 'Notice that all the nice looking, expensive cups were taken, leaving behind the plain and cheap ones. While it is normal for you to want only the best for yourselves, that is the source of your problems and stress. The cup that you're drinking from adds nothing to the quality of the hot chocolate. In most cases it is just more expensive and in some cases even hides what we drink. What all of you really wanted was hot chocolate, not the cup; but you consciously went for the best cups... And then you began eyeing each other's cups. Now consider this: Life is the hot chocolate; your job, money and position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold and contain life. The cup you have does not define, nor change the quality of life you have. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the hot chocolate God has provided us. God makes the hot chocolate, man chooses the cups. The happiest people don't have the best of everything. They just make the best of everything that they have. Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. And enjoy your hot chocolate. Nice tale. Champagne tastes better from crystal than styofoam and old cracked porcelain harbours more germs than unblemished china.... Edited January 7, 2008 by M.Dancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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