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Current society: How bad is it?


iForgot

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So with any facts or even a shred of anything you are unable to back up your fluff.

Here's a fact. Miners are not often stuck in low wage jobs.....mining in africa employs tens of thousands of people who livlihoods are enriched by a regular paycheck.

And what relevancy does a black american market bring to the ? Do you honestly think that somehow adds credibility? Does your non factual fluff lose legitimacy with the race card?

Sheesh what jejune crap.

Those paychecks are consumed by imported goods, thereby keeping the miners in a poor state. Sheesh what a narrow line.

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Granted, so are mine every time I step into WalMart.

So are people who work at WalMart and McDonalds as full time employees. We're all part of the problem. Rampant consumerism and wasteful consumption doesn't improve our lives or the lives of the poor. It merely maintains the status quo to the benefit of the rich owners and investors of the corporation.

Oil has gone from $25 a barrel to over $100 in less than 10 years. Who do you think is getting rich from that? And gas prices are rising again, predicted to be $1.50 or higher per liter by summer. Are the gas station attendants getting raises? Are the processing plant employees benefiting? No. They get what they have always gotten, even less as companies try to find cheaper exported employment, and cheaper extraction from poorer countries.

When profits are realized in a company they cannot be created or destroyed. The money comes from somewhere and goes somewhere. When manufacturing, and employees don't realize increases, then that money must come from the bottom of the pile - the poor consumer - who becomes poorer. As the price of goods and materials increases it costs us more and middle income earners become low income earners, while the rich take it off the top and distribute it to their investors. There is a whole lot of usury going on in the market place and people are taking money out of the system without really earning it or deserving it.

We're part of the problem. Your RRSPs you pensions, even your oil and gas companies that fuel your cars and homes are dependent on the take from the poor pay the rich investment scheme. They artificially raise the price of stocks by forcing price increases or by making products smaller and less reliable, or they export the manufacturing jobs out of country. Unless we stop the madness, we contribute to the dwindling employment and increased poverty and eventually IT MUST come to an end. It can't be sustained because eventually we run out of source at the bottom too fast to make up the glut at the top of the heap.

It is our thinking that is the problem. We believe the corporate lingo and jingle. If we just work a little harder, and little faster, or get the latest time-saving products we can "get ahead" (notice the whole point of our existence is to get a head) There is no American Pie. There is only an American Dream that 33% of Americans have finally realized is nothing more than hopeless, boring nightmare where they are the slaves, chained by their dependence on cheap goods and leaving their kids the legacy of lies and disillusionment.

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World poverty has been dramatically reduced due to globalization...

In fact, it is for the very reasons you espouse that this has happened and not because Geldof says we should GIVE more money.

Your platitudes play nice in the NDP playbook but have no bearing on reality..

http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/worldmap/...lution=1024x768

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/N...PK:4607,00.html

happy reading.

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World poverty has been dramatically reduced due to globalization...

In fact, it is for the very reasons you espouse that this has happened and not because Geldof says we should GIVE more money.

Your platitudes play nice in the NDP playbook but have no bearing on reality..

http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/worldmap/...lution=1024x768

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/N...PK:4607,00.html

happy reading.

World poverty has NOT decrease. Only the median wage has increased, which is not a true measure of poverty. AND the richest country in the world - the US - is increasing in poverty by the hour.

Take the example of a farmer, who finds a 5% increase in the goods he sells, only top find the cost of seed, fuel and fertilizer has increase 8-10%. The government is quick to point out his improved wage but fails to identify where it all goes, while the farmer slips further into bankruptcy.

There is no increase available anywhere. There is just a redistribution of the lower income class.

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I've never been to Ohio, is it really that bad? It cant be as bad as trying to understand someone who's lived on the rock all their lives can it?

I was a navy brat and my family are all Bluenosers from Nova Scotia. We moved to Ontario when I was around 8 years old but still when I get drunk or excited I lose my Ontarioan accent!

As a kid my friends and I would deliberately drive my mother nuts to get her to start cursing us in "Eastcoaster". We'd laugh for hours!

As a young man I shared an apartment with some buds. This was the early 70's and there was a commercial going round on tv from one of the frozen food companies in Atlantic Canada. It featured a Newfoundlander in full regalia, gum boots and sou'wester rain cloak standing in the surf while a dark sleet and snow storm raged. He was extolling the virtues of the companies frozen fish product in a thick accent, while subtitles scrolled across the bottom of the screen like a foreign artsie movie.

I just didn't get it! My friends would be laughing and I'd be scratching my head. You see, I understood him perfectly! I'd turn and ask my friends "Why the subtitles?" They'd shriek and howl at me, of course.

It was weeks before I ever twigged to the joke! :lol:

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Those paychecks are consumed by imported goods, thereby keeping the miners in a poor state. Sheesh what a narrow line.

So miners who receive a paycheck higher than the average wage are kept in a poor state?

Care to wriggle so more?

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Interesting statement.So are you saying that what people buy and use should be legislated? That perhaps one should have an issued permit before buying a new couch?

It's easy to state things like this but when pressed for some depth on the statement answers are usually sparse and unrevealing.

I think he is saying, that it is the power of the customer (we really need to stop using the term CONSUMER, which comsumes things, a Customer scrutinizes every purchase and justifies it) People need more self control when purchasing items. Most pay for it on a credit card that is already busting the limit. Most never make the full payment on the credit card. Why do you need another one of those items, when you already have many, and you damn f&cking well you cannot afford it in any case.

Stores are to blame just as much for enticing the idiots with no self control, with no payments for 6 months, no interest on approved credit, don't ever pay now, but pay out the ass later on. We buy crappy products because the warrently lets us replace the item if it breaks, but if it was made with a little more care and better materials, I would not have to buy a new one every f&cking year. Money wasted that could be spent on other things. Like food. Also we need to get back into the frame of mind that nothing is disposable. Don't throw out your trash for a whole month, see how much of it your household produces? Ever notice hoe exessive packaging is these days??

And stop blaming others for retarded things you know you should not be doing.

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Oil has gone from $25 a barrel to over $100 in less than 10 years. Who do you think is getting rich from that?

Canadians are certainly. The price of oil has risen mainly because demand has risen. (and fears of conflict) China is adding more and more cars on the road than any other nation. This put pressure on the refineries which up the value of the fuel sold.

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So miners who receive a paycheck higher than the average wage are kept in a poor state?

Care to wriggle so more?

How much does a diamond miner in Africa make? Compare that to the Two Month Salary Engagement Ring , and you will start to scratch your head. If you think that an african diamond miner can actually afford any of the diamonds he is mining, then you have lost your mind.

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How much does a diamond miner in Africa make? Compare that to the Two Month Salary Engagement Ring , and you will start to scratch your head. If you think that an african diamond miner can actually afford any of the diamonds he is mining, then you have lost your mind.

I fail to see whether a miner can afford the diamond is in anyway relevant. Nor do I see how average wages in Nambibia are relevant to what we are payed here.

What is relevant is how much they make compared to their own averages. Here's the nub. A house costs far less in Zimbabwe than it does in Calgary. So do chickens. If a miner by his work can afford a better house and more chickens than his slash and burn farmer neighbour, then he is doing better.

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How much does a diamond miner in Africa make? Compare that to the Two Month Salary Engagement Ring , and you will start to scratch your head. If you think that an african diamond miner can actually afford any of the diamonds he is mining, then you have lost your mind.

The wages of manual laborers should relate to the price of the finished product?

So, like, an assembly line worker who puts together the dashboard in a Chevrolet Cobalt should make a lot less money than an assembly line worker who puts together the dashboard in a Chevrolet Corvette?

If framers decide they aren't making enough money working on houses in one development, they should be able to hop in their vans and get a huge raise by working on houses in more exclusive neighborhoods?

-k

Edited by kimmy
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The wages of manual laborers should relate to the price of the finished product?

So, like, an assembly line worker who puts together the dashboard in a Chevrolet Cobalt would make a lot less money than an assembly line worker who puts together the dashboard in a Chevrolet Corvette?

-k

In other shocking news, the workers (blessed be their name) at the Lamborghini factory cannot afford to buy a Lamborghini.

.....but they can save two months salary for a beautiful engagement goat just like the ones they use in Southern Africa....

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The wages of manual laborers should relate to the price of the finished product?

So, like, an assembly line worker who puts together the dashboard in a Chevrolet Cobalt would make a lot less money than an assembly line worker who puts together the dashboard in a Chevrolet Corvette?

-k

Actually yes. Corvettes price tags are up to 5 times the price of a Cobalt. So you would expect those Vette workers to be making more money. It is a luxury item, and more design and care should go into the production of the Vette. It is a coveted item, not many can afford it. If those workers are not making the same wages, then some fat cats in the company are.

And in most cases it is robots doing the work, the robot in the Cobalt factory does not bitch about the wages the robot in the Vette factory works at. They both make nothing.

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Actually yes.

Actually, why?

Wages are market adjusted, not profit adjusted. While workers in an extremely profitable company can expect to be paid more than marginally profitable company, there is no reason to expect workers to pay for the right to work in a company that losses money.

Workers should expect to be paid a fair market wage and ideally, bonuses for exellence. If they want profit sharing then they should contact their brokers and assume some risk as well.

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World poverty has NOT decrease. Only the median wage has increased, which is not a true measure of poverty. AND the richest country in the world - the US - is increasing in poverty by the hour.

Take the example of a farmer, who finds a 5% increase in the goods he sells, only top find the cost of seed, fuel and fertilizer has increase 8-10%. The government is quick to point out his improved wage but fails to identify where it all goes, while the farmer slips further into bankruptcy.

There is no increase available anywhere. There is just a redistribution of the lower income class.

I see..

The WTO and the world bank are wrong and you are right.

I get it now! thanks for clearing that up!

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Actually, why?

Wages are market adjusted, not profit adjusted. While workers in an extremely profitable company can expect to be paid more than marginally profitable company, there is no reason to expect workers to pay for the right to work in a company that losses money.

Workers should expect to be paid a fair market wage and ideally, bonuses for exellence. If they want profit sharing then they should contact their brokers and assume some risk as well.

In discussing wages, the price of goods and services, and the attractiveness of cheap imports, the role of unions cannot be left out of the discussion. Through collective bargaining and strike action, wages have risen sharply in many industries which in turn has caused sharp increases in the cost of goods and services to consumers. As a result, many companies closed down because they could no longer remain viable or competitive. In turn, some of these companies moved operations elsewhere where lower wages and production costs could enable them to resume business.

Of course, those supporting the union movement would never admit that unreasonable demands have been a contributing factor to the decline of production-based industries in Canada, the loss of high-paying jobs and the influx of cheap imported goods. The most blatant example is the auto industry. China is set to flood North America with an inexpensive vehicle further damaging our declining domestic auto industry.

But let's not blur the discussion of our rampant consumerism. It's so much easier to blame individual consumers for the ills of society than to look behind the curtain.

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Actually, why?

Wages are market adjusted, not profit adjusted. While workers in an extremely profitable company can expect to be paid more than marginally profitable company, there is no reason to expect workers to pay for the right to work in a company that losses money.

Workers should expect to be paid a fair market wage and ideally, bonuses for exellence. If they want profit sharing then they should contact their brokers and assume some risk as well.

That the biggest crock of bogus crap I have heard yet!

WalMart Profit Per Minute

WalMart pays $8.23 per hour.

There is nothing fair market about a McJob wage. It is dictated by the company and in cases like big manufacturing, jobs will be exported if workers don't toe the line.

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That the biggest crock of bogus crap I have heard yet!

WalMart Profit Per Minute

WalMart pays $8.23 per hour.

There is nothing fair market about a McJob wage. It is dictated by the company and in cases like big manufacturing, jobs will be exported if workers don't toe the line.

I fail to see why Walmart making profts has anything to do with what they pay.

I can only assume you feel that employees should pay to work for companies losing money.

Besides, that $8.23 US is above their minimum wage. Exactly how much should unskilled labour earn? No more that the market rate.

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If someone doesn't like the wage walmart pays, they are free to work else where. And indeed if they can find higher paying jobs they should. The pressure of finding able bodies would force walmart to raise their wages.

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It is our thinking that is the problem. We believe the corporate lingo and jingle. If we just work a little harder, and little faster, or get the latest time-saving products we can "get ahead" (notice the whole point of our existence is to get a head) There is no American Pie.

And yet I cannot help recall the awe of my grandparents as they described their first genuine sun filled vacation in the uniquely capitalist kitsch that defines the all inclusive resort, after having spent 60+ years in the "glory" that was the Soviet Union.

-------

P.S. I gather you are writing this post from a relatively modern P.C. - Why? Afterall, I would expect you to lead by example.

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And yet I cannot help recall the awe of my grandparents as they described their first genuine sun filled vacation in the uniquely capitalist kitsch that defines the all inclusive resort, after having spent 60+ years in the "glory" that was the Soviet Union.

-------

P.S. I gather you are writing this post from a relatively modern P.C. - Why? Afterall, I would expect you to lead by example.

Evil and stupidity are very close relatives. How decayed is society? - I would say it will get worse - there is no government - no judical system - no soft prayer in the morning for the childern in school to calm them down and give them hope..at least we as kids had hope - we have built a society of hyper-depressed and delluded animals....once I asked a shrink why this young person was suffering so much mentally - the lady doctor was from south america - she put it simply - "The patient has lost hope" - we have a system that destroys hope - and all forms of faith - secularization has a price - barbarity!

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And yet I cannot help recall the awe of my grandparents as they described their first genuine sun filled vacation in the uniquely capitalist kitsch that defines the all inclusive resort, after having spent 60+ years in the "glory" that was the Soviet Union.

-------

P.S. I gather you are writing this post from a relatively modern P.C. - Why? Afterall, I would expect you to lead by example.

Yes I see that is important to you and many others. NO doubt you will take advantage of this:

Walmart to open 24 hours

This ultra modern PC that I am on is a tool, just like my table saw and my shovel. I use it. It doesn't use me, nor does the advertising or the corporate jingle capture me into slavery. We are regressing into a state that in 20 or 30 years may very well be like the late Soviet Union. You think you have free choice, but in reality, you are programmed from birth to obey the masters, buy their goods and live a life prescribed by your employer. Our society no longer lives to love and enjoy life. We are programmed to live to work. Do you have a Blackberry or a cell phone that your employer gave you?

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Interesting statement.So are you saying that what people buy and use should be legislated? That perhaps one should have an issued permit before buying a new couch?

It's easy to state things like this but when pressed for some depth on the statement answers are usually sparse and unrevealing.

How about this...instead of ceos making 10 to 50 mill a year (and more), we actually pay a living wage to the people who actually work to produce the wealth for said ceo, or is that too complicated for you righties?

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