Current society: How bad is it?

[iForgot]

Lets face it, the current western society is all about marketing. Consumerism, giant corporations, everywhere you go its suwbay, coca cola, Hollywood, big, big, big corporations and materialism. A "strong" women is now someone who is loud mouthed and not afraid to "be sexy".

Are we less intelligent than before, do we care less about our family values, culture, race than before? Are we more selfish than before, are we truly more open minded and "advancing" as a race or simply being controlled by the big dogs?

Do you think society is getting better or worse and is the current society we live in better than the past or worse? Or is an ideal society something in between (with a little bit of consumerism, a little bit of pre MTV era traditional values)?

Thanks for any replies!

[marcinmoka]

It seems that each generation, the world over, romanticizes the past and is overly pessimistic of the future.

Unfortunately, I f too fall off guard on occaision and catch myself thinking the very same, illogical thoughts, so who am I to judge.

[margrace]

No I don't think people have changed, the big difference is information. Our civilization still goes on killing, starving and otherwise mistreating others. Will we change, I think I have given up hope?

Edited January 3, 2008 by margrace

[AngusThermopyle]

No I don't think people have changed, the big difference is information. Our civilization still goes on killing, starving and otherwise mistreating others. Will we change, I think I have given up hope?

Thank you for the info. I never realized before that Canada had policy of killing, starving and mistreating others.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that others have such a policy as applied to their own people?

[margrace]

Thank you for the info. I never realized before that Canada had policy of killing, starving and mistreating others.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that others have such a policy as applied to their own people?

yes I know deny, deny, deny but I was speaking of the whole world and yes Mea Culpa covers us all.

[AngusThermopyle]

yes I know deny, deny, deny but I was speaking of the whole world and yes Mea Culpa covers us all.

I'm not sure I'd say I'm in denial at all. We have many policies and programs designed to help others. I've said before, we cant do it all at the same time, these things are difficult and hard to change. The fact is that Canada makes significant efforts to aid others, to the point where Canadians give their lives in pursuit of these goals.

Can you name the operations Canada has undertaken to kill, maim, starve and whatever else people of other nations? This inquiring mind wants to know.

And, no, Mea Culpa does not cover us all as you put it. I know that I'm not responsible for some thugs in a foreign land slaughtering their own kin. This is also something I'd like you to enlighten me on, how am I at fault for such atrocities? While you're at it you can also explain how my neighbours and co-workers are responsible, or the lovely lass who serves me at the local pub. I'm sure she'd like to know how responsible for world wide atrocities she is.

Edited January 3, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[margrace]

I'm not sure I'd say I'm in denial at all. We have many policies and programs designed to help others. I've said before, we cant do it all at the same time, these things are difficult and hard to change. The fact is that Canada makes significant efforts to aid others, to the point where Canadians give their lives in pursuit of these goals.

Can you name the operations Canada has undertaken to kill, maim, starve and whatever else people of other nations? This inquiring mind wants to know.

And, no, Mea Culpa does not cover us all as you put it. I know that I'm not responsible for some thugs in a foreign land slaughtering their own kin. This is also something I'd like you to enlighten me on, how am I at fault for such atrocities? While you're at it you can also explain how my neighbours and co-workers are responsible, or the lovely lass who serves me at the local pub. I'm sure she'd like to know how responsible for world wide atrocities she is.

A child dies every three seconds in poverty, we are part of the problem

[AngusThermopyle]

A child dies every three seconds in poverty, we are part of the problem

Yeah sure, nice sound bite, now, back to the question. Would you care to explain to me how I'm part of that problem? Perhaps I've been over zealous in my "lets starve kids to death" campaign?

[M.Dancer]

Yeah sure, nice sound bite, now, back to the question. Would you care to explain to me how I'm part of that problem? Perhaps I've been over zealous in my "lets starve kids to death" campaign?

remember when your mom said, "Eat your parsnips and cabbage, there are children staving in Ohio"?...you didn't and now you are part of the problem

[AngusThermopyle]

"Eat your parsnips and cabbage, there are children staving in Ohio"

I'm from england originally so it was usually an African nation she'd use.

Were they starving in Ohio too?

[charter.rights]

Yeah sure, nice sound bite, now, back to the question. Would you care to explain to me how I'm part of that problem? Perhaps I've been over zealous in my "lets starve kids to death" campaign?

Rampant and uncontrolled consumerism, unregulated resource and mineral extraction and marginalized wages - all created and maintained to keep our standard of living....

[M.Dancer]

Rampant and uncontrolled consumerism, unregulated resource and mineral extraction and marginalized wages - all created and maintained to keep our standard of living....

Which in no way impacts their lives. The fact we can create wealth doesn't mean we are hindering those who can't. If you go and buy a beef tender loin or a new car it has zero impact on children whose farms are devasted by drought or whose homes have been burnt by marauding tribal fighters.

One of the main problems of the third world isn't our consumerism but their lack of infrastructure that would help them distubute their own oruduce. The reason we can have a fresh tenderloin grown in our own neck of the woods is the labour we have put in.

If thirsd world nations were more concerned about building roads than buying mercedes for their elite they would be better off, but that is a misery of their doing, not ours.

[capricorn]

Yeah sure, nice sound bite, now, back to the question. Would you care to explain to me how I'm part of that problem? Perhaps I've been over zealous in my "lets starve kids to death" campaign?

The poverty sound bite is the left's strategy of making you feel guilty. The objective is to make you FEEL like you are the reason there are poor people. To resolve the poverty problem WHICH YOU CAUSED you must share everything you own with Canada's and the world's poor. The guilt trip is working on many uninformed Canadians.

There's more than enough hypocrisy around the poverty issue to go around. The poverty industry really doesn't want poverty to go away because ultimately it would be out of a job.

[M.Dancer]

The poverty sound bite is the left's strategy of making you feel guilty. The objective is to make you FEEL like you are the reason there are poor people. To resolve the poverty problem WHICH YOU CAUSED you must share everything you own with Canada's and the world's poor. The guilt trip is working on many uninformed Canadians.

There's more than enough hypocrisy around the poverty issue to go around. The poverty industry really doesn't want poverty to go away because ultimately it would be out of a job.

One of the most startling facts is that Africa produces food far in excess of what it needs to feed itself unfortunately huge amounts are wasted because it can't get it to the areas that need it. There is no arfican common market, african super highway or even the will to create one. Food that could feed the hungry rots.

[noahbody]

One of the most startling facts is that Africa produces food far in excess of what it needs to feed itself unfortunately huge amounts are wasted because it can't get it to the areas that need it. There is no arfican common market, african super highway or even the will to create one. Food that could feed the hungry rots.

Maybe they can ship it to Ohio.

[M.Dancer]

I'm from england originally so it was usually an African nation she'd use.

Were they starving in Ohio too?

Probably. Ohio is sort of like the northern ozarks....10 minutes from scanton and you're in dueling inbred banjo country....

[AngusThermopyle]

Rampant and uncontrolled consumerism

Interesting statement.So are you saying that what people buy and use should be legislated? That perhaps one should have an issued permit before buying a new couch?

It's easy to state things like this but when pressed for some depth on the statement answers are usually sparse and unrevealing.

[cybercoma]

Probably. Ohio is sort of like the northern ozarks....10 minutes from scanton and you're in dueling inbred banjo country....

Living in Windsor, ON on the border with Detroit, MI, I never realized how bad Ohio was until I went to Eldora Speedway in Rossburg, OH. We stopped at a gas bar to pickup some beer and stuff and I could hardly understand the clerk.

[AngusThermopyle]

I've never been to Ohio, is it really that bad? It cant be as bad as trying to understand someone who's lived on the rock all their lives can it?

[sharkman]

Interesting statement.So are you saying that what people buy and use should be legislated? That perhaps one should have an issued permit before buying a new couch?

It's easy to state things like this but when pressed for some depth on the statement answers are usually sparse and unrevealing.

I'll have a go at your original question about Canada being a part of the problem. Innocent people are savagely attacked here every day, and the guilty are caught, brought to court, and given such things at house arrest. This does not deter the criminal element in our society from similar behaviour. (Street racers, swarmers, partiers and gang members have all killed or maimed innocent people in Canada in the last year, but apparently we have no room in our prisions)

Children are forced into prostitution in our country, and the guilty pimps are given slaps on the wrist, since prostitution is thought to be a benefit in society. Drug dealers are increasingly wealthy, and consider the courts their plaything, getting kids addicted to all manner of drugs, which destroy their lives and then they have children.

[charter.rights]

Which in no way impacts their lives. The fact we can create wealth doesn't mean we are hindering those who can't. If you go and buy a beef tender loin or a new car it has zero impact on children whose farms are devasted by drought or whose homes have been burnt by marauding tribal fighters.

One of the main problems of the third world isn't our consumerism but their lack of infrastructure that would help them distubute their own oruduce. The reason we can have a fresh tenderloin grown in our own neck of the woods is the labour we have put in.

If thirsd world nations were more concerned about building roads than buying mercedes for their elite they would be better off, but that is a misery of their doing, not ours.

I think you have to do better than that. Trying to dismiss consumerism by comparing access to beef tenderloin is pretty weak.

Try to us the same argument with say, African diamonds (or Canadian diamonds where deBeers just happen to find a mine in Kasetchewan First Nation territory, while their drinking water system was in crisis). Then you can tackle mid-eastern oil, China's vast clothing market (the west being one of the major importers) and even East Indian call centres and electronics.

The point is that behind all of these world peoples marginalization are big corporation profits searching for cheaper goods and services at any cost. We often forget too that in the west there are examples of poverty - in the US that means nearly 33% are at or near the poverty level - while jobs are being exported to poorer countries and cheap goods are imported here displace "home-spun" as Ghandi used to like to say. The fact is that your beef is and greedy need to keep it on the tables of the rich, is not untouched by those cheap goods either. And if you track that meat from farm to supermarket, the farmers get very little of the final slice it is purchased for.

Making third world countries like us complete with infrastructure and a farmed beef down the road isn't the goal of those corporations. Keeping the people in a low income caste system is desirable to mass western profits.

Consumerism is just about wanting the newest and the best and discarding perfectly adequate working models anyway. This comes about from mass conditioning and advertisers being able to convince the masses that their lives will be better, or faster, or smarter if we only buy their products. We have gone way beyond need in the west and are quickly turning consumption into a greed market.

We're not to blame totally for poverty in the world. However, because of our uncontrolled consumerism we are not only maintaining it , but increasing it. We have removed self-sufficiency - as meager and sufficient as it once was - and replaced it with dependence on foreign goods and products. Now instead of being able to sew a shirt for ourselves we must depend on cheap China mass production (often populated in unbearable conditions) to supply our WalMart low waged employees.

Controlling consumerism is a personal thing. We have to take responsibility for our own mania and wasteful consumption of disposable goods. How long did it take for us to wake up to the knowledge that plastic grocery bags and excess plastic packaging are not only a waste, but their production is totally unnecessary. We have nearly wiped out (or sold) our timber industry to big oil by being sucked into buying everything from plastic sticked q-tips to disposable plastic wraps to poorly recycled bubble wrap packaging that goes straight into landfill. We're doing the same thing to farmers with mega-hog production, imported fruits and vegetables at a fraction of the cost, plastic building products and 7 year lifespan cars and trucks that cost 5 times as much to repair as to buy new. And as profits become the main focus of big corporation, they ignore both environmental and human poverty in order to satisfy it. It cannot be sustained without someone taking a hit for it.

As long as we refuse to hold a conscience over our wasteful and rampant consumerism, we remain a major part of the problem. That isn't beef tenderloin. That beans that would feed the world and can be grown in their own back yards.

[M.Dancer]

I think you have to do better than that. Trying to dismiss consumerism by comparing access to beef tenderloin is pretty weak.

Try to us the same argument with say, African diamonds (or Canadian diamonds where deBeers just happen to find a mine in Kasetchewan First Nation territory, while their drinking water system was in crisis). Then you can tackle mid-eastern oil, China's vast clothing market (the west being one of the major importers) and even East Indian call centres and electronics.

The point is that behind all of these world peoples marginalization are big corporation profits searching for cheaper goods and services at any cost. We often forget too that in the west there are examples of poverty - in the US that means nearly 33% are at or near the poverty level - while jobs are being exported to poorer countries and cheap goods are imported here displace "home-spun" as Ghandi used to like to say. The fact is that your beef is and greedy need to keep it on the tables of the rich, is not untouched by those cheap goods either. And if you track that meat from farm to supermarket, the farmers get very little of the final slice it is purchased for.

Making third world countries like us complete with infrastructure and a farmed beef down the road isn't the goal of those corporations. Keeping the people in a low income caste system is desirable to mass western profits.

Consumerism is just about wanting the newest and the best and discarding perfectly adequate working models anyway. This comes about from mass conditioning and advertisers being able to convince the masses that their lives will be better, or faster, or smarter if we only buy their products. We have gone way beyond need in the west and are quickly turning consumption into a greed market.

We're not to blame totally for poverty in the world. However, because of our uncontrolled consumerism we are not only maintaining it , but increasing it. We have removed self-sufficiency - as meager and sufficient as it once was - and replaced it with dependence on foreign goods and products. Now instead of being able to sew a shirt for ourselves we must depend on cheap China mass production (often populated in unbearable conditions) to supply our WalMart low waged employees.

Controlling consumerism is a personal thing. We have to take responsibility for our own mania and wasteful consumption of disposable goods. How long did it take for us to wake up to the knowledge that plastic grocery bags and excess plastic packaging are not only a waste, but their production is totally unnecessary. We have nearly wiped out (or sold) our timber industry to big oil by being sucked into buying everything from plastic sticked q-tips to disposable plastic wraps to poorly recycled bubble wrap packaging that goes straight into landfill. We're doing the same thing to farmers with mega-hog production, imported fruits and vegetables at a fraction of the cost, plastic building products and 7 year lifespan cars and trucks that cost 5 times as much to repair as to buy new. And as profits become the main focus of big corporation, they ignore both environmental and human poverty in order to satisfy it. It cannot be sustained without someone taking a hit for it.

As long as we refuse to hold a conscience over our wasteful and rampant consumerism, we remain a major part of the problem. That isn't beef tenderloin. That beans that would feed the world and can be grown in their own back yards.

Try explaining now in real terms how that makes people poor...you know, how working in a mine and being paid far more than anywhere else makes someone poor....see if you can.

Then for good measure, explain how not spending your money will make someone else rich...see if you can...

[M.Dancer]

African diamonds.

We buy them, they mine them. They the miners get paid 2 or 3 times more for their labour than the average worker. In the case of the farmer, 100 times more as farmer in africa tend to not produce much beyond what the can trade for. That is why med line up for the jobs. Because they pay better than what they could make anywhere else.

Diamonds are good for africa.

[charter.rights]

Try explaining now in real terms how that makes people poor...you know, how working in a mine and being paid far more than anywhere else makes someone poor....see if you can.

Then for good measure, explain how not spending your money will make someone else rich...see if you can...

There you go again. Trying to minimize the issue with weak comparisons.

Let's do look at the mining industry for example. African mining of diamonds is often performed by people stuck in low waged jobs and unbearable health and safety conditions. There are often criminal elements as well involved in profiting from them. By the time that the diamond reaches a black American market someone has jumped the actual cost from a few dollars to hundreds if not thousands.

[M.Dancer]

There you go again. Trying to minimize the issue with weak comparisons.

Let's do look at the mining industry for example. African mining of diamonds is often performed by people stuck in low waged jobs and unbearable health and safety conditions. There are often criminal elements as well involved in profiting from them. By the time that the diamond reaches a black American market someone has jumped the actual cost from a few dollars to hundreds if not thousands.

So with any facts or even a shred of anything you are unable to back up your fluff.

Here's a fact. Miners are not often stuck in low wage jobs.....mining in africa employs tens of thousands of people who livlihoods are enriched by a regular paycheck.

And what relevancy does a black american market bring to the ? Do you honestly think that somehow adds credibility? Does your non factual fluff lose legitimacy with the race card?

Sheesh what jejune crap.