Collapse of the US economy

[Sir Bandelot]

It's not your "coffer" money until you earn it...

It is my money, I already earn it. People like Mr. Flatherty are going to give some of the Canadian tax money to the banks.

Where do you think the stimulus money came from, Mr. Flaherty's personal account?

-> most Americans don't pay attention to what Finance Minister Jim Flaherty has to say or what happens to the Canadian economy either way.

Most Americans are on other forums.

[bush_cheney2004]

It is my money, I already earn it. People like Mr. Flatherty are going to give some of the Canadian tax money to the banks.

Where do you think the stimulus money came from, Mr. Flaherty's personal account?

Sounds like your beef is with Flaherty, not the American "corpse".

-> most Americans don't pay attention to what Finance Minister Jim Flaherty has to say or what happens to the Canadian economy either way.

Most Americans are on other forums.

..and most Canadians don't have their sweat pumps in fast speed over the state of the US economy. Don't worry so much...there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

I wonder if I should be as concerned about NAFTA members Canada or Mexico....little corpses.

[Sir Bandelot]

Commodity prices also declined following reports of further weakness in the Chinese economy.

Economic growth slowed from 11.9 per cent in the first three months of the year to 10.3 per cent in the second quarter as Beijing rolled back its stimulus after China rebounded quickly from the global slump. Chinese leaders say they want to steer growth to a more sustainable level, but the slowdown was sharper than many analysts expected.

Also, China’s retail sales increased by 17.9 per cent in July, but it was below the 18.5 per cent consensus in the markets.

Strong Chinese demand has been instrumental in helping the global economy recover from recession.

Markets tumble on gloomy economic outlook

"Weakness is strength"

- Ancient Chinese secret

[Sir Bandelot]

I wonder if I should be as concerned about NAFTA members Canada or Mexico....little corpses.

There's still a good supply of nachos and beer, no need to be concerned.

[bush_cheney2004]

There's still a good supply of nachos and beer, no need to be concerned.

China and USA are biggest producers of beer....plenty of nachos from Frito-Lay too, so there is no concern at all.

Concern over other nation's economies is your department.

[Wilber]

The US is where Canada was in 1990s. A lot of people were predicting doom then as the C$ collapsed. The US government will need to cut spending and raise taxes but that does not mean the US economy is about to collapse.

There's a lot to that. The fly in the ointment is the US system of government which makes gridlock all to easy. Never more than now when partisanship seems to be over riding common sense and common need at every turn. If the current self inflicted paralysis continues it is unlikely anyone will be able to take the actions necessary. It is quite discouraging to watch.

[Sir Bandelot]

China and USA are biggest producers of beer....plenty of nachos from Frito-Lay too, so there is no concern at all.

That's right, they're gonna keep you well fed, so that it'll be easy when they come and bleed you, real quiet.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's right, they're gonna keep you well fed, so that it'll be easy when they come and bleed you, real quiet.

I consume neither nachos or beer, so it will have to be some other American in your quiet bleeding fantasy.

[bush_cheney2004]

There's a lot to that. The fly in the ointment is the US system of government which makes gridlock all to easy. Never more than now when partisanship seems to be over riding common sense and common need at every turn. If the current self inflicted paralysis continues it is unlikely anyone will be able to take the actions necessary. It is quite discouraging to watch.

This is the American way....it will resolve itself one way or another. The "paralysis" is by design. Canadians embrace government solutions more readily with hardly a wimper.

[Sir Bandelot]

I consume neither nachos or beer, so it will have to be some other American in your quiet bleeding fantasy.

Not a beer drinker eh? Why am I not surprised

[Freedom_Now]

The US, as long as the FED will be a Private bank cartel and that their fiat money will be backed by debt rather than good and services, will continue his economic collapse !

We need a monetary reform !

[Sir Bandelot]

9/11 words by Iran leader lead to U.S. walkout at U.N.

In his speech to the annual General Assembly, Ahmadinejad said it was mostly U.S. government officials who believed a terrorist group was behind the suicide hijacking attacks that brought down New York's World Trade Center and hit the Pentagon.

Another theory, he said, was "that some segments within the U.S. government orchestrated the attack to reverse the declining American economy, and its grips on the Middle East, in order to save the Zionist regime."

...

We all know why the US economy, and most western economies linked to it are all down. Consumers spending is down. Reason, the consumer has no confidence. By 9/11 Americas dick got shrivelled

[Michael Hardner]

The US, as long as the FED will be a Private bank cartel and that their fiat money will be backed by debt rather than good and services, will continue his economic collapse !

We need a monetary reform !

FREE SILVER !

[Shady]

By 9/11 Americas dick got shrivelled

Complete nonsense. The economic collapse was a result of a manipulated housing market. Which had nothing to do with 9/11, or Bush tax cuts, or the war in Iraq, or the war in Afghanistan.

[dre]

This is the American way....it will resolve itself one way or another. The "paralysis" is by design. Canadians embrace government solutions more readily with hardly a wimper.

Thats no so much a difference between Canadians and Americans, as it is the quality of government we get and the system. If we had the US political system and parties then, we wouldnt trust government to solve problems EITHER!

The US government could turn just about anybody into a minarchist

[dre]

Complete nonsense. The economic collapse was a result of a manipulated housing market. Which had nothing to do with 9/11, or Bush tax cuts, or the war in Iraq, or the war in Afghanistan.

Actually thats not completely true. Those things DID play a part. They had the net effect of funding consumption with foreign money, and that results in huge ammounts of US paper in the hands of foriegn governments and global investors.

What did these foreign entities DO with all that money? Thats where it gets interesting.

The derivitives market allowed financial institutions to invest all this foreign money into the US housing market by buying mortgage backed securities!!! That flooded the US with money and created overly favorable credit conditions.

This is from Wiki...

Regardless of the push or pull view, a "flood" of funds (capital or liquidity) reached the USA financial markets. Foreign governments supplied funds by purchasing USA Treasury bonds and thus avoided much of the direct impact of the crisis. USA households, on the other hand, used funds borrowed from foreigners to finance consumption or to bid up the prices of housing and financial assets. Financial institutions invested foreign funds in mortgage-backed securities. USA housing and financial assets dramatically declined in value after the housing bubble burst.[161][162]

So definately things like tax cuts and defecit financing DID play a part in inflating the realestate bubble. Defecit financing and the large American current accounts and trade defecit resulted in US creditors having massive ammounts of US paper on hand.... The derivitives market allowed all that money to flow back into the US where it was used to bid up housing values.

It makes perfect sense if you think about it, because lending stardards are going to be at least loosely based on capital and liquidity. If I have a single widget to lend somebody Im going to make damn sure that person is solid and will pay me back. But If Im sitting on a stack of a billion such widgets then Im going to have to relax my standards to lend them all out and take some chances.

Edited September 23, 2010 by dre

[Sir Bandelot]

Complete nonsense.

The theory is that fear and capitalism don't mix well. Fear undermines consumer confidence. Without the consumer spending, the economy won't recover and is doomed to failure. It is inevitable

Sex is another indicator of the level of confidence in society. When a society undergoes a level of shock like what happened on 9/11, it affects the birth rates.

9/11 attacks linked to increased male baby miscarriages

May 25, 2010 Stress caused by psychological shock from the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, felt even by people with no direct link to the event, may have led to an increase in male children being miscarried in the U.S

[Sir Bandelot]

Compounding the problem of fear is a growing sense of conspiracy and betrayal, among the general populace. I'm not saying that 9/11 was a conspiracy, but it is being perceived that way by sizable numbers of people. There is a greater sense that we have been lied too, by our governments on several important fronts. The bailout actually made things worse, in the long run by undermining confidence and trust. People saw that their government actually has large reserves of wealth, their wealth. A trillion dollars in reserves is not used for building infrastructure, not used for projects that would help improve life in society, but instead given to people and organizations deemed "too big to fail". And that statement says everything about the truth of what's going on, if you think about it.

Plus, the internet is like a conduit for all sorts of information, making it very difficult for governments to control the message as they have in the past. The green revolution, adding a sense that we're on the last rungs of a ladder, nowhere to go from here. An awareness that really the vast majority of products we use re toxic to the environment, and even toxic en themselves, to us. Poison products made in far off lands that have no regulations to control the quality of the product, made with unsafe chemicals. Made by slave children. GO to a clothing store and find anything that's not made by these people. This is why they hate us, this is where September 11 does come in. By invoking it, Achmadinejad is lobbing missiles into the psyche of the American consumer.

People are more aware of what they're putting into their bodies when they buy industrialized goods. There is a greater interest in local grown or produced goods, making things themselves, home-made items. It's the backlash against globalism, and it's happening on the level of individuals, subconsciously or consciously making a choice not to buy industrial junk. The consumer is becoming anti-materialist. The economy comes to a standstill because the end-products cannot be delivered.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Poison products made in far off lands that have no regulations to control the quality of the product, made with unsafe chemicals. Made by slave children. GO to a clothing store and find anything that's not made by these people. This is why they hate us, this is where September 11 does come in. By invoking it, Achmadinejad is lobbing missiles into the psyche of the American consumer.

This kind of hyperbole is self evident, as it is a simple matter to demonstrate the folly of your assertion(s). I think I will go to a men's clothing store tonight and demand my cheap, slave made Italian suit.

The Americans are just as ready to lob real missiles at Iran.

[GostHacked]

Complete nonsense. The economic collapse was a result of a manipulated housing market. Which had nothing to do with 9/11, or Bush tax cuts, or the war in Iraq, or the war in Afghanistan.

But yet it's all Obama's fault.

The theory is that fear and capitalism don't mix well. Fear undermines consumer confidence. Without the consumer spending, the economy won't recover and is doomed to failure. It is inevitable

IS this why Bush said to go buy stuff after the 9/11 attacks?

[Sir Bandelot]

This kind of hyperbole is self evident, as it is a simple matter to demonstrate the folly of your assertion(s). I think I will go to a men's clothing store tonight and demand my cheap, slave made Italian suit.

The Americans are just as ready to lob real missiles at Iran.

the only thing that is self evident, is the latest economic indicators. It demonstrates the reality, regardless of anyones hyperbole. Habeus Denarius

I don't know about you but in Canada we have data showing people are sitting on their money. They don't WANT your cheap italian suite

Edited September 24, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[bush_cheney2004]

the only thing that is self evident, is the latest economic indicators. It demonstrates the reality, regardless of anyones hyperbole. Habeus Denarius

Somebody is still buying a lot of clothing, and it does not all come from "slave labor". "Fruit of the Loom" terrorists only exist in your dreams.

I don't know about you but in Canada we have data showing people are sitting on their money. They don't WANT your cheap italian suite

I don't live in Canada, and you don't live in the United States.

[jbg]

Complete nonsense. The economic collapse was a result of a manipulated housing market. Which had nothing to do with 9/11, or Bush tax cuts, or the war in Iraq, or the war in Afghanistan.

To be fair, Bush did have plenty to do with keeping the "good times" rolling in the housing market, and the uber-low interest rates that followed 9/11 contributed to the bubble. But there's plenty of blame to go around to both parties.

No one wants to "take away the punch bowl just when the party's getting good" (link) to quote a former Fed chair, William McChesney Martin.

[Shady]

To be fair, Bush did have plenty to do with keeping the "good times" rolling in the housing market, and the uber-low interest rates that followed 9/11 contributed to the bubble. But there's plenty of blame to go around to both parties.

No one wants to "take away the punch bowl just when the party's getting good" (link) to quote a former Fed chair, William McChesney Martin.

Oh I agree. You could assign blame going back all the way to the 1970's. I just wanted to point out to the other poster that 9/11 had nothing to do with the housing market manipulation.

Anyways, as bad as things are in the US economy, it's decline is very much preventable. It's still 3 times larger than China's economy, and that's after shedding some 8 million jobs over the last few years.

[maple_leafs182]

Oh I agree. You could assign blame going back all the way to the 1970's. I just wanted to point out to the other poster that 9/11 had nothing to do with the housing market manipulation.

Anyways, as bad as things are in the US economy, it's decline is very much preventable. It's still 3 times larger than China's economy, and that's after shedding some 8 million jobs over the last few years.

I think the blame can go all the way back to 1913 when the Federal Reserve Act was passed.