The Problem With Christmas

[Canapathy]

I’m sick of consumerism and I am really starting to hate stuff in general. At one time I really yearned for things like nice cars, home theater systems, tools and appliances. Then I sort of became indifferent to our glutinous North American way of life. I wasn’t bothered by it but I personally started to make an effort to acquire less, use less, and waste less. Soon I found that I didn’t really want stuff anymore at all.

Now despite my best efforts I am starting to really despise those that spend their lives consuming and acquiring. It could be the Christmas season and the accompanying advertising and push towards mass consumption that is bothering me. Maybe my skin will stop crawling in early January when the image of malls packed with fat, middle-aged women looking for deals, arms full of bags full of stuff destined to fill our basements and closets until we feel enough time has passed and we can than drop it off at the local thrift store of send it to the landfill has faded.

Anyway, I came across this article about the holiday season and consumerism that sums up my feeling about Christmas time almost perfectly. Not being Christian or religious at all, I really don’t give a crap about celebrating the birth of Jesus, but other than that this story is a perfect fit.

Still I find it amusing that an atheist (or maybe agnostic…not really sure what definition I fall under but I really don’t care to debate it anyway) like me would prefer to celebrate this holiday in a way that the man it was named for would approve of more, while my Christian friends and family prefer to trade thousands of dollars worth of crap back and forth…and in their eyes I’m Grinch-like.

I also came across this article...now this is a holiday tradition I can really get into....one that literally requires zero effort on my part.

Celebrate Buy Nothing Day on Friday; no purchase necessary

[M.Dancer]

I used to be a grinch about xmas. But then I had kids and all of a sudden I believe in Santa Claus too. I know children have voracious appetites for fun and to be honest, watching them grow in anticipation is a gas.

This morning we had the first snow and my daughter say to her brother, Maccaluim Ruadh ...look snow! Santa will be here soon!!!! And both laughed and danced till I yelled at them to stop their bleeding capering and go brush their teeth before I smacked their backsides.

God I love them.

[ScottSA]

I used to be a grinch about xmas. But then I had kids and all of a sudden I believe in Santa Claus too. I know children have voracious appetites for fun and to be honest, watching them grow in anticipation is a gas.

This morning we had the first snow and my daughter say to her brother, Maccaluim Ruadh ...look snow! Santa will be here soon!!!! And both laughed and danced till I yelled at them to stop their bleeding capering and go brush their teeth before I smacked their backsides.

God I love them.

Are your kids the reason for your growing up and leaning conservative too? At this rate you'll be a "racist" just like me in no time!

[M.Dancer]

Are your kids the reason for your growing up and leaning conservative too? At this rate you'll be a "racist" just like me in no time!

My kids are the reason I stay middle of the road and harbour very few prejudices. It is a pleasure to watch them play togther with their friends who are from all parts of the world; China, Iran, France, India, their common denominator is they live in a very affluent neighbourhood.

[Canapathy]

look snow! Santa will be here soon!!!! And both laughed and danced till I yelled at them to stop their bleeding capering and go brush their teeth before I smacked their backsides.

God I love them.

Well said.

I love everything except the mass consumption that goes along with this time of year. I love the claymation tv specials, the excitement of children, the getting together with family, building snowmen (sorry snow people), hot chocolate, decorating, etc. I have a couple of kids now, my oldest is 2 and just becoming aware of Santa et al. He is all pumped about building a 'no-man' (he can't make the 's' sound very well yet) which so far he has only read about in books. We got a little snow today so I am looking forward to rolling up all the snow in my back yard into a grass covered, 30cm high 'no-man'.

[cybercoma]

I hate how buying crap for one another is almost a requirement. You're usually looked at quite funny when you demand that no one gets you anything for Christmas. I really don't understand it.

[Carinthia]

I hate how buying crap for one another is almost a requirement. You're usually looked at quite funny when you demand that no one gets you anything for Christmas. I really don't understand it.

I can relate!!

I love Christmas but dang, I wish we could get back to the more simple ways of celebrating it. There should be laws banning stores from putting up decorations in November and piping carols at us for 2 months. When I was young, there was no such thing as buying Christmas presents that we couldn't afford, just wasn't even considered. Now, presents under the tree take a year to pay off and flow out to the middle of the living floor. It's becoming more and more stressful and less and less enjoyable for some of us. I hope that someday, folks will backlash all this greedy commercialism that's evolved over the past 40 years.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Carinthia

[Leafless]

My kids are the reason I stay middle of the road and harbour very few prejudices. It is a pleasure to watch them play togther with their friends who are from all parts of the world; China, Iran, France, India, their common denominator is they live in a very affluent neighbourhood.

And we wonder why third world countries despise the West.

People like Dancer and his common denominators.

[jennie]

My kids are the reason I stay middle of the road and harbour very few prejudices. It is a pleasure to watch them play togther with their friends who are from all parts of the world; China, Iran, France, India, their common denominator is they live in a very affluent neighbourhood.

You have one prejudice left, MDancer, and I am going to call you on it: Obviously your affluent neighbourhood doesn't include any Aboriginal Canadians. Is this what you will teach your kids?

I think it would be fun if we gave them stone axes and spears and ask then to settle their competing claims in a traditional fashion.

We got over newfie jokes a long time ago because they were offensive.

When will we ever get over this crap?

How about for CHRISTmas this year?

Edited November 22, 2007 by jennie

[Higgly]

You have one prejudice left, MDancer, and I am going to call you on it...

Only one?

[Moxie]

I can relate!!

I love Christmas but dang, I wish we could get back to the more simple ways of celebrating it. There should be laws banning stores from putting up decorations in November and piping carols at us for 2 months. When I was young, there was no such thing as buying Christmas presents that we couldn't afford, just wasn't even considered. Now, presents under the tree take a year to pay off and flow out to the middle of the living floor. It's becoming more and more stressful and less and less enjoyable for some of us. I hope that someday, folks will backlash all this greedy commercialism that's evolved over the past 40 years.

I think some of us have had enough of the commercialism, I stopped buying Christmas presents ten years ago. I had enough of spending a fortune on family and friends, I have a very large family. Nine siblings and to many relatives visa vie nephews and nieces to count. At first I felt like the grinch, but Christmas is stress free for me. I don't decorate or put up a tree, I can't cook so baking is out of the question. I cook dinner for some family and adopt two needy families and give to local fund raisers and the food bank and that's it.

I don't need more stuff, at some point in our lives (usually when a loved one is dying) we realise at the end of the day it's just STUFF. People matter, suffering matters a bread maker is just more crap.

Children make Christmas special, their joy makes me smile. I know adults that spring to life at Christmas, I also know many who suffer depression at Christmas. Christmas can be a time of great joy, or over whelming sorrow.

[ScottSA]

You have one prejudice left, MDancer, and I am going to call you on it: Obviously your affluent neighbourhood doesn't include any Aboriginal Canadians. Is this what you will teach your kids?

I think it would be fun if we gave them stone axes and spears and ask then to settle their competing claims in a traditional fashion.

We got over newfie jokes a long time ago because they were offensive.

When will we ever get over this crap?

How about for CHRISTmas this year?

Wait a second...are you suggesting that there is something wrong with stone axes and spears? Are you suggesting that Indian traditions are valueless? Or, alternatively, that they are "jokes"? Because Momo's claim about tradition is factual...Europeans settled differences with muskets and cannon, and Indians settled differences with stone axes and spears. You do know that pre-Columbian Indians were stone-age, don't you? Why would you consider that a "joke"?

[scribblet]

I can relate!!

I love Christmas but dang, I wish we could get back to the more simple ways of celebrating it. There should be laws banning stores from putting up decorations in November and piping carols at us for 2 months.

Me too, I really don't like the commercialism in fact, we don't exchange gifts anymore, actually we don't do anything other than a family get together. (before we go south - )

It's Called Christmas turn your volume up...it's cute and upbeat

[capricorn]

What I love about Christmas is boxing day. That's when I stop feeling guilty for being a non-conformist and resisting all the hard sell coming from advertisers and stores. On boxing day I actually feel I have won a battle and it is sweet. No credit card bills and a few bucks still left in the bank until my next pension cheque.

Give me a good old fashioned New Year's Eve party at the local Legion any time. A pot luck supper, good friends, no cover charge, a few drinks and hugs and kisses at midnight.

Bah! Humbug!

[kengs333]

Still I find it amusing that an atheist (or maybe agnostic…not really sure what definition I fall under but I really don’t care to debate it anyway) like me would prefer to celebrate this holiday in a way that the man it was named for would approve of more, while my Christian friends and family prefer to trade thousands of dollars worth of crap back and forth…and in their eyes I’m Grinch-like.

Actually, I was right there with you until you brought up the part about not being Christian. The more I've come to undertsand the Truth, the more dismayed that I've become about Christmas, and the season becomes more difficult to endure. At the same time it dismays me the extent to which Christmas has come under attack by anti-Christians. Despite my issues with the date on which it occurs, I still feel that there has to be an outward recognition of Christ's birth, a time when people can together celebrate that great day. I don't know what kind of Christians you associate with, but in my circle Christmas is a very low key affair where the exchange of material goods is kept to a minimum.

[Posit]

Wait a second...are you suggesting that there is something wrong with stone axes and spears? Are you suggesting that Indian traditions are valueless? Or, alternatively, that they are "jokes"? Because Momo's claim about tradition is factual...Europeans settled differences with muskets and cannon, and Indians settled differences with stone axes and spears. You do know that pre-Columbian Indians were stone-age, don't you? Why would you consider that a "joke"?

Actually, North American archaeology has proven that Natives were smelting and working non-ferrous metals nearly 3000 years before Europeans discovered the process. Europeans also had to steal the secret of gunpowder from the Chinese, not having the intelligent capacity to invent it themselves.

[Posit]

Oh...and wait for it.....

Christmas is a pagan festival stolen by the Church. The tree, the presents and the religious myths about Christ's birthday are all thefts from other cultures.

No wonder so many people are so disillusioned with Christmas. It is hard to celebrate a lie.....

[kengs333]

Actually, North American archaeology has proven that Natives were smelting and working non-ferrous metals nearly 3000 years before Europeans discovered the process. Europeans also had to steal the secret of gunpowder from the Chinese, not having the intelligent capacity to invent it themselves.

So why weren't Indians more technologically advanced by 3000 years when Europeans first came--on boats the likes of which the Indians had never devised--to the Americas? Being able to take and metal and melt it down and then construct a crude object is one thing, but actually having the ability to create ornate or practicle objects is another. Europeans may have been influenced by many outside sources, but Europeans had the ability to always take it a step further, and while the Indians of North America were not advancing much on their earlier acquired knowledge, the Europeans were constantly developing and improving. Which is why they eventually were able to sail the oceans, and when they arrived in North American were able to purchase the raw material for luxury goods from the local Indians for mere beads, scraps of metal, and other trinkets.

[kengs333]

Oh...and wait for it.....

Christmas is a pagan festival stolen by the Church. The tree, the presents and the religious myths about Christ's birthday are all thefts from other cultures.

No wonder so many people are so disillusioned with Christmas. It is hard to celebrate a lie.....

The date wasn't "stolen" it was adopted to supplant existing practices to help ease the rightful conversion of the pagans.

Christ's birth is not a lie, as opposed to just about everything that you seem to post.

[Oleg Bach]

I’m sick of consumerism and I am really starting to hate stuff in general. At one time I really yearned for things like nice cars, home theater systems, tools and appliances. Then I sort of became indifferent to our glutinous North American way of life. I wasn’t bothered by it but I personally started to make an effort to acquire less, use less, and waste less. Soon I found that I didn’t really want stuff anymore at all.

Now despite my best efforts I am starting to really despise those that spend their lives consuming and acquiring. It could be the Christmas season and the accompanying advertising and push towards mass consumption that is bothering me. Maybe my skin will stop crawling in early January when the image of malls packed with fat, middle-aged women looking for deals, arms full of bags full of stuff destined to fill our basements and closets until we feel enough time has passed and we can than drop it off at the local thrift store of send it to the landfill has faded.

Anyway, I came across this article about the holiday season and consumerism that sums up my feeling about Christmas time almost perfectly. Not being Christian or religious at all, I really don’t give a crap about celebrating the birth of Jesus, but other than that this story is a perfect fit.

Still I find it amusing that an atheist (or maybe agnostic…not really sure what definition I fall under but I really don’t care to debate it anyway) like me would prefer to celebrate this holiday in a way that the man it was named for would approve of more, while my Christian friends and family prefer to trade thousands of dollars worth of crap back and forth…and in their eyes I’m Grinch-like.

I also came across this article...now this is a holiday tradition I can really get into....one that literally requires zero effort on my part.

Celebrate Buy Nothing Day on Friday; no purchase necessary

Christmas is fine enjoy it. Don't worry about all that stuff - it's a personal time of the year and it is what you make it - a holy day and one of peace and joy and good will - or just pure material stress..It's up to you.

[Posit]

So why weren't Indians more technologically advanced by 3000 years when Europeans first came--on boats the likes of which the Indians had never devised--to the Americas? Being able to take and metal and melt it down and then construct a crude object is one thing, but actually having the ability to create ornate or practicle objects is another. Europeans may have been influenced by many outside sources, but Europeans had the ability to always take it a step further, and while the Indians of North America were not advancing much on their earlier acquired knowledge, the Europeans were constantly developing and improving. Which is why they eventually were able to sail the oceans, and when they arrived in North American were able to purchase the raw material for luxury goods from the local Indians for mere beads, scraps of metal, and other trinkets.

But they WERE far more advance than the savage Europeans that fled torture, and dictatorship ruled societies in the old country. The reason they didn't build ships is because they didn't wear out their environment like the filthy Europeans, who crapped in open sewers and drank beer and wine because clean water was too polluted to human consumption. Vast food stores led to plague from rodent infestations and ergot infected grains led to massacres of witches and demons - innocent women and children publicly murdered because the accusers were too stoned to differentiate between reality and a hallucinations. Europeans borrowed most of their technologies from other cultures they raped and pillaged. The average European pre-contact was a pathetic mess of fear, indebted to masters all over their villages and had no hop of freedom. Ships were commissioned by the Kings to go out a destroy people, reap their riches and bring them back - not to the benefit of the people, but to increase the greedy holdings of the monarchies.

It was likely that the average European had one bath a year - and only then after a number of people had already used the bathwater. Babies were last - thus the saying :Becareful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater!"

On the other hand, the Iroquois practiced sustainable agriculture - rotating crops, companion planting and composting to keep lands rich. They never tried to impose themselves on their environment knowing full well that to do so meant a backlash for them. Instead they moved entire communities to new village locations perhaps 20 or thirty miles away in order to allow the ground to restore its fertility and for animals and wild game to return the area. They had no need to travel long distances for food and had no need for riches, believing in equality and equal rights for all people. No one was held in higher esteem than children being the future generations. They were clean and free from disease - living on average to over 100 years old.

You mistake technology as being something of value and yet as a society today, technology is the disease - the plague - we all suffer from. It creates power over others, destroys the environment, our water, earth and air and then purports to have a solution to restore it. Technology has made people dependent and indebted to the capitalists who force us to work in order to support the vast network of other workers by purchasing their goods. We are constrained by that technology and must invade and conquer other nations around the world to support our insatiable appetite for profit.

And yet....children are poor people are without basic necessities. They do not have access to clean drinking water or adequate food. We are destroying farms for development and turning our last self-supporting occupation -farming - into corporate entities that pump their oil based fertilizers, hormone contaminated water and sewage enriched soils into our food chain and eventually our bodies.

Technology is a disease. One would have thought that if Europe was such an advanced civilization, then why did so many people flee it to seek prosperity and freedom somewhere else?

You live, eat and breathe myths. Go back to elementary school and see if they can teach you the truth.

[Oleg Bach]

But they WERE far more advance than the savage Europeans that fled torture, and dictatorship ruled societies in the old country. The reason they didn't build ships is because they didn't wear out their environment like the filthy Europeans, who crapped in open sewers and drank beer and wine because clean water was too polluted to human consumption. Vast food stores led to plague from rodent infestations and ergot infected grains led to massacres of witches and demons - innocent women and children publicly murdered because the accusers were too stoned to differentiate between reality and a hallucinations. Europeans borrowed most of their technologies from other cultures they raped and pillaged. The average European pre-contact was a pathetic mess of fear, indebted to masters all over their villages and had no hop of freedom. Ships were commissioned by the Kings to go out a destroy people, reap their riches and bring them back - not to the benefit of the people, but to increase the greedy holdings of the monarchies.

It was likely that the average European had one bath a year - and only then after a number of people had already used the bathwater. Babies were last - thus the saying :Becareful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater!"

On the other hand, the Iroquois practiced sustainable agriculture - rotating crops, companion planting and composting to keep lands rich. They never tried to impose themselves on their environment knowing full well that to do so meant a backlash for them. Instead they moved entire communities to new village locations perhaps 20 or thirty miles away in order to allow the ground to restore its fertility and for animals and wild game to return the area. They had no need to travel long distances for food and had no need for riches, believing in equality and equal rights for all people. No one was held in higher esteem than children being the future generations. They were clean and free from disease - living on average to over 100 years old.

You mistake technology as being something of value and yet as a society today, technology is the disease - the plague - we all suffer from. It creates power over others, destroys the environment, our water, earth and air and then purports to have a solution to restore it. Technology has made people dependent and indebted to the capitalists who force us to work in order to support the vast network of other workers by purchasing their goods. We are constrained by that technology and must invade and conquer other nations around the world to support our insatiable appetite for profit.

And yet....children are poor people are without basic necessities. They do not have access to clean drinking water or adequate food. We are destroying farms for development and turning our last self-supporting occupation -farming - into corporate entities that pump their oil based fertilizers, hormone contaminated water and sewage enriched soils into our food chain and eventually our bodies.

Technology is a disease. One would have thought that if Europe was such an advanced civilization, then why did so many people flee it to seek prosperity and freedom somewhere else?

You live, eat and breathe myths. Go back to elementary school and see if they can teach you the truth.

Rome was a welfare city state. All got a measure of wine perday. There was a chunk of bread that could be picked up at the local food bank and all was well. The base of this old society was entertainment, blood sport. Some how nothing has changed and I never was a watcher of hockey. I did have a quick look at it the other day and it seems it has evolved to a type of climatic dance where two men embrace each other and take turnes rapidly flattening the other guys face with a fist....and all cheer and our children watch and the parents say- some day son you will be a roman gladiator and we will be so proud. Where the hell is the Christian doctrine of civility that built modern North America - the one of kindness and mutual co-operation where winning was not the issue? There is nothing wrong with Christmas - but there certainly is something wrong with state sponsored consumerism that is Christmas - where soon auto-canabalism will take over and eating your fellow man in public will become the entertainment - we are moving in that direction quickly and as in old Rome where church and state are one - so it is in North America - Church - government and Walmart and Christmas are blended into a soup and we are force fed this slop.

[White Doors]

Wow. You really hate white people eh?

Must be hard living with all that hate inside you.

Edit to add: I love the consumerism! It's the crappy presents that I hate which I usually get from people that say they hate the 'consumerism' of Christmas but in truth are just too lazy and self-involved to get a present that is truly touching.

And the food! yum!!

Edited November 23, 2007 by White Doors

[kengs333]

Posit, it still doesn't make sense; how can a more advanced society get conquered by a less advanced society that for the first several centuries was considerably outnumbered? Why was the more advanced society willing to barter luxury goods for a few scraps of metal, a few beads or trinkets? I could go on and on, but I'm not interested in getting involved in a petty flame war with you. The difference between advanced and primitive when it comes to societies is definite and indesputable. People such as yourself can't stand the fact that because of this "your side" was on the latter side of the equation, and therefore have go around playing semantics. Face it, Europeans were more advanced; that's just the way it was, and in many cases still is.

[margrace]

Actually if you read your history, the Chinese were far ahead of the Europeans. I think it would behove us to read and learn all we can about our wonderful democracies. Why are they where they are today?

We have special church services called Blue Christmas. Christmas is a sad and lonely time for a lot of people expecially seniors.