Tasered Polish Man

[no queenslave]

why were the mounties called; and by who? the man was in a secure area so they knew he had no weapons ; what danger was he to anyone? The airport staff knew who he was and where he was from. The first thing they should of done was called his mother; who was asking about him, not a gang of taser jockys.. And when the mounties responded what information did they ask?

CAN I TASER HIM?

Canada is a dictatorship and this act proves how a police state operates.

[shavluk]

CBC just now.

Police think he died of ,,,,and get this,,, """in custody death syndrome """ hahhahhahhahahahhahhahahahhahhahahhahhahhahhahhahhahahhahhahahahhahahhahahahhahh

hahhaha how about "thousand year old snap neck syndrome"

[Carinthia]

I have taken flights into two foreign places where little English is used, Lisbon and Montreal. In both situations Knowing that airports are, in the best of times, fraught with tension, I made sure I knew what to do when disembarking from the plane in order to avoid a possibly tragic accident.

People should exercise some self-care steps along the way. Obviously, this is not to excuse the RCMP but they're regularly on the firing line and I prefer not to be itchy to second-guess them.

Geez, I would never have thought I might die for making a mistake at an airport! Chances are this guy had never flown in his life before. This was tragic, yes. Accident? No! As far as the RCMP frequently being on the firing line goes, I don't recall ever seeing them on the firing line by the media unless they deserved to be on the firing line. And without videos to record events, they are a bunch of liars to boot. They are seldom held fully accountable for any mistakes they make. What about the guy up north who was shot in the back of the head by a cop? This was self defense? I don't think so.

[bush_cheney2004]

Far more interesting is the reaction of Canadians to this story. Many are quick to associate the RCMP actions with the United States for the usual political reasons.

Video of Taser Death in Canada Sparks Probe (love that headline)

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/16/5283/

[Pliny]

CBC just now.

Police think he died of ,,,,and get this,,, """in custody death syndrome """ hahhahhahhahahahhahhahahahhahhahahhahhahhahhahhahhahahhahhahahahhahahhahahahhahh

hahhaha how about "thousand year old snap neck syndrome"

Well, you don't ever want to be "in custody" then.

[Pliny]

Canada is a dictatorship and this act proves how a police state operates.

Hear! Hear!

Oops! Sorry, Canada is known for being a friendly nation which welcomes and nourishes all cultures.

[geoffrey]

Well, you don't ever want to be "in custody" then.

Easy. Don't break the law. Don't start throwing stuff around an international airport. You won't get tasered, I promise.

[Pliny]

Easy. Don't break the law. Don't start throwing stuff around an international airport. You won't get tasered, I promise.

Precisely my point. And perhaps an incentive to lower Nazi standards at airports.

[DrGreenthumb]

Hear! Hear!

Oops! Sorry, Canada is known for being a friendly nation which welcomes and nourishes all cultures.

Some of us would rather if Canada could keep our good reputation so we can hold our heads high wherever we travel in the world. It's too bad that Harper's policies and the actions of cops like these ones have tarnished our reputation worldwide. Government's like Bush's and Harper's make the world a more dangerous place through their policies of aggression, exploitation, and oppression, then they have the nerve to ask the people to give up their rights and freedoms in exchange for some perceived protection? Is terrorism really that rampant that we need to allow our cops to go around tazering people who don't really appear to be much of a threat? I would bet that more people die each year from automobile accidents in Canada than have died from terror attacks in the whole history of our country. Terrorism is a red herring boogeyman the conservatives are using to frighten people into giving up their rights, and we should not allow them to do it.

People who are afraid of physical confrontation, or unskilled in hand to hand combat should not become police officers. It seems to me that cops these days seem to come in a lot smaller sizes than they used to. It may be that by relaxing the physical requirements for police we are letting people be police who can not properly handle the physical requirements of the job. They get scared and are a little too quick to resort to weapons. An officer used to be a lot bigger, more imposing figure that often commanded respect just by his stature.

There are many things that have caused the RCMP and other police forces to lose the respect of the people. A lot more scandals hitting the press lately, cops in charge of investigating themselves, videos like this hitting youtube, it all adds up. The drug war has caused many people to grow up with a distrust of the police. It has made liars out of them and made them aggressive against peaceful citizens. Sadly not many people look at the cops these days and think of them as someone who serves and protects.

[GostHacked]

I would think that when the cops get tasered in training, it is done with care. When they rush at somebody who they want downed, they press a whole lot harder and are not quite so gentle or descretionary as to where they aim the damned thing. Big difference!

Riverwind, I guess I need to clarify somethings.

In a controlled traning exercise with police officers, the taser is given to them. They are stressed out some due to the new experience of the taser shock. But overall they are calm because help is right here to get them back up or help them in case things go wrong. Generally (yes I know the donut shops) police are in better shape than the average citizen. Not all cops are in above average phisical condition (hell some are not even up there in the mental capacity, which makes them just as dangerous) but the better shape you are in, the better you are after a taser hit.

Switch this to an uncontrolled situation where panic/frustration and very high levels of stress come into play. The first aid is not always RIGHT there after the shock. The cops in this situation are more concerned about themselves than the person getting tased. Subdue first.

The controlled studies regarding the taser guns are flawed because of the scenarios provided above.

[Guest American Woman]

I'm not sure what the police could have done differently in this situation. The man was out of control, and that's just not tolerated in airports any more. Furthermore, the police aren't obligated to put the man's life before their own. By that I mean they don't know what kind of danger he posed to them, and they weren't obligated to put themselves in danger/harm's way. They didn't shoot him. They didn't beat him. They did what they felt was best under the circumstances.

And speaking out 'out of control at airports,' did you all see this? A woman who was detained in Arizona died as a result of being cuffed. Evidently she strangled herself trying to escape from the cuffs.

My point is, as sad as both of this instances are, sometimes people die when the police are doing their job. It's a sad, but I believe unavoidable, fact. However, no one can deny that more people would die if the police didn't do their job.

[jazzer]

The fact that the guy died has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of their actions. If they are wrong, so are dozens of cops every day all over the world.

Bingo!

[Riverwind]

Switch this to an uncontrolled situation where panic/frustration and very high levels of stress come into play. The first aid is not always RIGHT there after the shock. The cops in this situation are more concerned about themselves than the person getting tased. Subdue first.

I agree 100%. However, this distinction gets lost because we have all been told over and over again how these weapons are perfectly safe and no one has ever been shown to die of a taser jolt. Cops get the same message so we should not be surprised that they think they are Captain Kirk with a phasor on stun. Tasers need to be put in the category of 'potentially deadly' weapon that only get used as an alternative to a gun. I suspect the inquiry into this man's death will come to a similar conclusion. In meantime, I think people should wait until the investigation is complete before passing judgement on the cops involved.

[Oleg Bach]

I agree 100%. However, this distinction gets lost because we have all been told over and over again how these weapons are perfectly safe and no one has ever been shown to die of a taser jolt. Cops get the same message so we should not be surprised that they think they are Captain Kirk with a phasor on stun. Tasers need to be put in the category of 'potentially deadly' weapon that only get used as an alternative to a gun. I suspect the inquiry into this man's death will come to a similar conclusion. In meantime, I think people should wait until the investigation is complete before passing judgement on the cops involved.

"Potentialy deadly" - Seems probable via even half brained deductive power...that it's more than potential death - He looks pretty dead to me. --- what ever happened with wrestle the unarmed man to the ground - or even leaving him alone and letting him rant a while...oh yes - we are modern now - and living on an animal farm is norm - what was I thinking? As far as an investigation - what kind of silly put on it that? Cop points weapon - electricutes the man - man is dead...end of investigation - put the silly things away - and who got the contract to produce and sell these weapons to law enforcement - and what is the price of one of these zap toys that can stop your heart? That should be the investigation....also who OKed them as safe? That person should be examined. Not some silly cop who they intentionally recruit if his IQ is on the low side - but with new policy in place reject intelligent cops that ask to many questions.

[Riverwind]

"Potentialy deadly" - Seems probable via even half brained deductive power...that it's more than potential death - He looks pretty dead to me.

Actually you have no idea whether it was the taser that killed him or something else. Furthermore, many studies have been done on tasers and found no solid evidence that they are deadly. It is probably worth going back and looking at the assumptions built into these studies but an opinion based on the 'deductive power' of average person is worthless. It is clear most people expressing an opinion on the usefulness of the taser have never bothered to look at any the existing research and tried to understand why these studies have declared tasers harmless.

For example, tasers emit a high frequency burst of electricity which, in theory, causes the electricity to flow down the outside of the body and not through the internal organs. This theory makes sense from a electromagnetic perspective but no one has been able to prove it. These devices also only emit 2-3 ma (rms) in current which is well below the level considered to be dangerous to humans. However, our experience with electricity is mostly based on the low frequency sinusoid AC power that we use in our homes and that experience may not apply to the high frequency pulses used in tasers.

I not trying to claim that the scientific studies are flawless - however, I think it is rediculous to ignore these studies when forming an opinion.

Edited November 17, 2007 by Riverwind

[sideshow]

s

Edited March 18, 2008 by sideshow

[Oleg Bach]

Actually you have no idea whether it was the taser that killed him or something else. Furthermore, many studies have been done on tasers and found no solid evidence that they are deadly. It is probably worth going back and looking at the assumptions built into these studies but an opinion based on the 'deductive power' of average person is worthless. It is clear most people expressing an opinion on the usefulness of the taser have never bothered to look at any the existing research and tried to understand why these studies have declared tasers harmless.

For example, tasers emit a high frequency burst of electricity which, in theory, causes the electricity to flow down the outside of the body and not through the internal organs. This theory makes sense from a electromagnetic perspective but no one has been able to prove it. These devices also only emit 2-3 ma (rms) in current which is well below the level considered to be dangerous to humans. However, our experience with electricity is mostly based on the low frequency sinusoid AC power that we use in our homes and that experience may not apply to the high frequency pulses used in tasers.

I not trying to claim that the scientific studies are flawless - however, I think it is rediculous to ignore these studies when forming an opinion.

Theory is speculation and opinion - not fact...so are you the offical apologist for those that disrespect people enough to use the same methods of control on human beings as they do no cattle? It's bad - we did with out this thing and don't need it. It's a novelty and will be abused. Human nature has it that some cops might just want to have some fun - those they would like to shoot now they can and in this new game like video the dead guy comes back to life at the end - not this time...This Polish gentleman was alive prior to his moment in time...maybe it was just a conincidence - and just happened to have a heart attack at the same moment as thousands of volts tore through his being ----- oh sorry - just though his skin as you mentioned. What's wrong with using one of those tangle nets..that fires out and wraps him up like a spiders web?

[Riverwind]

This Polish gentleman was alive prior to his moment in time...maybe it was just a conincidence - and just happened to have a heart attack at the same moment as thousands of volts tore through his being

Thousands of volts tear through your body whenever you zap yourself with static electricity but you probably agree that is harmless. People can die touching a 240 volt wire. The difference is the amps - not the volts. You don't have any information about the number of amps that the man was hit with. Also people die all of the time in stressful situations from heart failures. If a druggie dies of heart failure in his appartment we think nothing of it. If a druggie's heart gives out while he is in police custody we blame the police. This guy was out of shape - was apparently going through nicotine withdrawl. An interesting fact that few people know: heavy drinkers can drop dead from alcohol withdrawl. The point is we don't really know what killed him and any sort of restraint might have triggered the same reaction. Edited November 17, 2007 by Riverwind

[Oleg Bach]

Thousands of volts tear through your body whenever you zap yourself with static electricity but you probably agree that is harmless. People can die touching a 240 volt wire. The difference is the amps - not the volts. You don't have any information about the number of amps that the man was hit with. Also people die all of the time in stressful situations from heart failures. If a druggie dies of heart failure in his appartment we think nothing of it. If a druggie's heart gives out while he is in police custody we blame the police. This guy was out of shape - was apparently going through nicotine withdrawl. An interesting fact that few people know: heavy drinkers can drop dead from alcohol withdrawl. The point is we don't really know what killed him and any sort of restraint might have triggered the same reaction.

OK you are right - maybe we could have little tot tazers - and get rid of that insidious kiddy cocaine called Ritalin and just give the little hyper active and autistic boys a little zap now and then...Every one knows that 240 volks kills almost all the time - that is what your electric stove is hooked up to---no one in their right mind goes near that wire..having said that..some will say that it is better than shooting at "center mass" which shatters the hearts and lungs - that it is better to just shock them into submission - sure it's better..

- but...force is not the answer..cops are being recruited smaller and smaller - and now their are woman officers that can not phycially restrain a male also the cops are dumber now with more poor judgement and less able to articulate and calm the person down verbally -----Tazering is going the wrong way - get better cops - but we really don't want smarter cops these days because laws are becoming more unjust and un-reasonalbe and a smart person will not obey mindlessly the lawless laws inflicted on the public via polite tyrants that seem to be emerging with the collapse of democracy.

[Wilber]

Every one knows that 240 volks kills almost all the time - that is what your electric stove is hooked up to

Tazers use very high voltage but minuscule amperage. It's not the 240 volts which kills when you are electrocuted by your stove, it is the 30 amps which fries you.

A 50,000 volt Tazer might be likened to getting hit by a large insect at 120 MPH. Being electrocuted by your 240 volt stove would be more like getting hit by a 30 MPH dump truck.

The RCMP action in Vancouver seems to be the final act in a whole litany of screw ups involving the airport, airlines, customs, security and police which had been going on since the time the man arrived. Bottom line is, it should never have got that far and he should still be alive. So lets dissect it and correct it so it doesn't happen again.

[jazzer]

Actually you have no idea whether it was the taser that killed him or something else. Furthermore, many studies have been done on tasers and found no solid evidence that they are deadly.

Hmm. Guy alive, then tasered, then dies. Pretty apparent to me.

[Higgly]

Not looking too good for the RCMP right now. The front page of the Globe and Mail (Saturday Nov 17, 2007) highlights an article entitled "He was a good boy!". This guy's hobby was cataloguing the world's nations with a picture showing his entry for Canada.

Not looking too good at all.

[Oleg Bach]

Tazers use very high voltage but minuscule amperage. It's not the 240 volts which kills when you are electrocuted by your stove, it is the 30 amps which fries you.

A 50,000 volt Tazer might be likened to getting hit by a large insect at 120 MPH. Being electrocuted by your 240 volt stove would be more like getting hit by a 30 MPH dump truck.

The RCMP action in Vancouver seems to be the final act in a whole litany of screw ups involving the airport, airlines, customs, security and police which had been going on since the time the man arrived. Bottom line is, it should never have got that far and he should still be alive. So lets dissect it and correct it so it doesn't happen again.

Well said. But bickering about electrocution of humans was a lot of fun....Maybe we can get big cylinder of nytorgen and freeze them real quick like....ooooh...cold...the over hyper vigilance at air ports is bizarre to say the least - I have seen ads for "security" - no experience neccesary - any one will do..not saying that the fed cops have no experience..but like I said-- quality has gone down...but it only makes sense that they have cops with poor judgement - seeing that within the judicary in Canada - judges do not judge but fucntion on a type of auto-pilot policy driven agenda..so if you don't have judges that actually make judgements - why would we expect law enforcement ot have judgement.??

[shavluk]

I knew sideshow boob was a cop!

No one but cops would write that.

All lesser I am sure than what my own eye's! saw this polish man given.

I see why it still happens, just about half of all humans are a bright as a bag of hammers it seems.

Good morning half of u.

[Oleg Bach]

I knew sideshow boob was a cop!

No one but cops would write that.

All lesser I am sure than what my own eye's! saw this polish man given.

I see why it still happens, just about half of all humans are a bright as a bag of hammers it seems.

Good morning half of u.

Hate to say it but I will anyway - over 80% of humanity with the conditioning through stress that they have recieved in the last 20 years are mentally ill - some are functional - dellusionary thought is rampant...I have pointed to a document - to a line and one of Canadas' formost defence lawyers reads "The dot is black" - then with all seriousness - she says -----"it does not say that"....when it is in black and white- so if this disease has spread to the legalist - who are experts in creating dellusion - what shape is the common person in? YEP - a bag of cold hammers in a wet blanket on a hot day....plus..maybe the poor guy from poland ate some bad calbasa...and the cops just did not like the smell of him yelling.