Conservatives bringing back death penalty for Canadians abroad

myata · November 13, 2007

I'll post more of this in the political polls section.
...

The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey found 50 per cent of respondents opposed the new policy, with 43 per cent in favour and the rest undecided.

Harper cons made sure to stir up the emotions by making the change coincidental with that notorious case. No doubt to make the max bang our of hot heated emotions as opposed to rational discussion. Even then, the majority didn't go with them. Another proof that they won't be too picky about the means as long as it gets them to power. Another reason that this crowd should never get it.

capricorn · November 13, 2007

Another reason that this crowd should never get it.

Too late. That crowd is already in.

Smallc · November 13, 2007

So what took Canada so long to show up in such numbers? If it was so important to have a force level of 70,000, where was the rest of Canada, and their heavy airlift, and tactical air, and satellite imaging, and GPS guided munitions, and cruise missiles, and bombers, and money for the Northern Alliance, and rotary wing aircraft, and desert camo fatigues, and....

Ummm we were HELPING you with the war, we weren't supposed to do it for you. You have all those things and now we have most of them too. We didn't at the time, but so what. Hind sight is 20/20

bush_cheney2004 · November 13, 2007

Ummm we were HELPING you with the war, we weren't supposed to do it for you. You have all those things and now we have most of them too. We didn't at the time, but so what. Hind sight is 20/20

Bullpuckey....you were supporting the mission as a founding member of NATO, and the Canadian Forces prevailed despite criminal neglect by your government over the years, not the American force levels or "helping". To this day, they must drive convoys through a deadly Taliban gauntlet instead of flying over them in Chinooks.

Edited November 13, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

Smallc · November 13, 2007

Bullpuckey....you were supporting the mission as a founding member of NATO, and the Canadian Forces prevailed despite criminal neglect by your government over the years, not the American force levels or "helping". To this day, they must drive convoys through a deadly Taliban gauntlet instead of flying over them in Chinooks.

I said we have most of the capability now, not all. Besides that, someone would have to drive. You can't keep order from the air.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Smallc

myata · November 13, 2007

Too late. That crowd is already in.

They are in, but they can't do much of their liking with other parties keeping them in check. Can use these little slimy tricks here and there, but not much else. What I mean is the real power, when they could create and change laws to their liking.

That should never happen.

Edited November 13, 2007 by myata

JerrySeinfeld · November 13, 2007

Don't be an ass. War is just another way of looking after your interests and any sane person knows it is the worst way and a last resort. Do you think countries would go to war if they could get their way without it?

You're rigth: besides ending SLAVERY, NAZISM, COMMUNISM, FASCISM, war never solved anything...

Smallc · November 13, 2007

You're rigth: besides ending SLAVERY, NAZISM, COMMUNISM, FASCISM, war never solved anything...

I didn't realize that there weren't still communists and fascists in the world. Slavery, well, I know that in Canada it was ended by a choice, not by a war.

JerrySeinfeld · November 13, 2007

I didn't realize that there weren't still communists and fascists in the world. Slavery, well, I know that in Canada it was ended by a choice, not by a war.

You're right - there aren't....thanks to those who fought against them in WARS.

Wilber · November 13, 2007

You're rigth: besides ending SLAVERY, NAZISM, COMMUNISM, FASCISM, war never solved anything...

Who said it never solved anything. I said it is a last resort and no sane person supports going to war just for the sake of going to war.

War ended slavery in the US. In the British Empire it was ended by Parliament. Which would you prefer?

M.Dancer · November 13, 2007

Who said it never solved anything. I said it is a last resort and no sane person supports going to war just for the sake of going to war.
War ended slavery in the US. In the British Empire it was ended by Parliament. Which would you prefer?

They may have ended in their own realm by an act of parliament but they also went and fought a few actions themselves to end it elsewhere.

Wilber · November 13, 2007

They may have ended in their own realm by an act of parliament but they also went and fought a few actions themselves to end it elsewhere.

They used their navy to try and stop the transportation of slaves from Africa. As far as I know, they didn't go to war with another state over slavery. Could be wrong though, the Victorians had more little wars than you can count.

I wonder how far from it's original subject this thread is going to get.

JerrySeinfeld · November 13, 2007

They used their navy to try and stop the transportation of slaves from Africa. As far as I know, they didn't go to war with another state over slavery. Could be wrong though, the Victorians had more little wars than you can count.
I wonder how far from it's original subject this thread is going to get.

The point is: some things are worth fighting for.

Smallc · November 13, 2007

You're right - there aren't....thanks to those who fought against them in WARS.

There's no communists and fascists in the world? Wow, that really is news to me.

Wilber · November 13, 2007

The point is: some things are worth fighting for.

I agree. Some things have to be fought for.

Smallc · November 13, 2007

I agree. Some things have to be fought for.

Yes there are. As long as we all realize that this has nothing to do with the death penalty.

myata · November 14, 2007

Certainly opposition had been less than efficient on this issue. As seen on TV yesterday with Dion actually showing some fire, but unfortunately in the wrong place (Mulroney affair, which most likely will come out as a dud). Once again, distraction tactics seem to have worked. Mulroney thing will be soon forgotten, along with (at least as the plan is) policy changes preceeding it. If the guy (Dion) shoots himself in the foot, it'll be entirely of his own making.

Shakeyhands · November 14, 2007

Bullpuckey....you were supporting the mission as a founding member of NATO, and the Canadian Forces prevailed despite criminal neglect by your government over the years, not the American force levels or "helping". To this day, they must drive convoys through a deadly Taliban gauntlet instead of flying over them in Chinooks.

You know what, you are right. We should pull out our forces immediately. Thanks for pointing all of that out.

Smallc · November 14, 2007

Certainly opposition had been less than efficient on this issue. As seen on TV yesterday with Dion actually showing some fire, but unfortunately in the wrong place (Mulroney affair, which most likely will come out as a dud). Once again, distraction tactics seem to have worked. Mulroney thing will be soon forgotten, along with (at least as the plan is) policy changes preceeding it. If the guy (Dion) shoots himself in the foot, it'll be entirely of his own making.

What was really funny was that Dion wasn't even listening. He showed fire after the PM had already answered his question. :lol:

myata · November 19, 2007

Now, with Harpers death penalty atticks I won't be surprised if the old divisions in the conservative block will come out yet again. The first signs are already appearing - with PC joining liberals, for the lack of better choice. Many more, I'm sure, have bad aftertaste that may show in their voting next time around.

The problem is that the so con core just won't let go of their core beliefs, such as death penalty, no matter what the majority of this country may think. Even greater one is that the government of the day would never openly admit it. It now falls to the opposition to expose this link, no matter how hard Harper and his team are trying to hide it or divert our attention to other topics.

capricorn · November 22, 2007

Stephane Dion has written to the Governor of Montana asking that Smith's death penalty be commuted.

http://www.liberal.ca/story_13359_e.aspx

There are 2 entries in his letter that I am uncomfortable with. The first one:

I write to you today on behalf of Canadians of all political stripes, beliefs, creeds and religions to respectfully urge you to commute the death sentence for Mr. Ronald Allen Smith, a Canadian citizen sentenced to death for the murder of two men in 1982. (underline mine)

He may as well have just said "on behalf of ALL Canadians". Frankly, I think it was very presumptuous of him to pretend to speak on my behalf.

The second one:

I know too that you are also entrusted with the reputation and the dignity of your state and its people. I believe both would be enhanced by commuting the death sentence in this case.

The statement implies that by applying it's laws, in this case the death penalty, the state and its people are undignified. IMO it's a blatant insult to the Governor and the citizens of Montana.

Am I reading too much into Dion's words?

guyser · November 23, 2007

I think you are.

One can have dignity , and then have it enhanced. Kind of like an old sports car has dignity, but being repainted and refurbished will enhance it.

As for "on behalf of Canadians" , well he is speaking for Canadians, just not all of them , thus the wording does not use all.

myata · November 23, 2007

He may as well have just said "on behalf of ALL Canadians". Frankly, I think it was very presumptuous of him to pretend to speak on my behalf.

With all respect to your personal opinion on the matter, the will of ALL Canadians was clearly expressed in democratic process in two votes in the Parliament. Dion was fully entitled to say that, unless Harper's cons were able to reverse those decisions in the Parliament. Which they did not dare to try. And until they do, and succeed at that, the decision stays: death penalty is inacceptable for citizens of this country.

The second one:
I know too that you are also entrusted with the reputation and the dignity of your state and its people. I believe both would be enhanced by commuting the death sentence in this case.

The statement implies that by applying it's laws, in this case the death penalty, the state and its people are undignified. IMO it's a blatant insult to the Governor and the citizens of Montana.

Am I reading too much into Dion's words?

You may be reading too much, but not very well. Dion chose word "enhance" which means that in his view, the reputation and dignity will be increased, if the sentence were to be commuted. He did not say anything about it to be diminished by the execution (even though many people, Americans included would certainly believe so).

Oleg Bach · November 23, 2007

With all respect to your personal opinion on the matter, the will of ALL Canadians was clearly expressed in democratic process in two votes in the Parliament. Dion was fully entitled to say that, unless Harper's cons were able to reverse those decisions in the Parliament. Which they did not dare to try. And until they do, and succeed at that, the decision stays: death penalty is inacceptable for citizens of this country.
You may be reading too much, but not very well. Dion chose word "enhance" which means that in his view, the reputation and dignity will be increased, if the sentence were to be commuted. He did not say anything about it to be diminished by the execution (even though many people, Americans included would certainly believe so).

Statement: Anyone who backs capital punishment and cheers in gleeful mania for it's return domestically or abroad for imprisoned Canadian citizens is a person who personally and honestly were to be put on the spot - is a person that is capable of murder - all capital punishement lovers are born killers...and lust at that thought of being part of legal killing - if you approve of capital punishment then you secretly approve in your wicked heart of murder. Watch out for these that want to execute - they are dangerous and if given the chance would stuff those they don't like into a chamber and gas them.

Oleg Bach · November 23, 2007

Statement: Anyone who backs capital punishment and cheers in gleeful mania for it's return domestically or abroad for imprisoned Canadian citizens is a person who personally and honestly were to be put on the spot - is a person that is capable of murder - all capital punishement lovers are born killers...and lust at that thought of being part of legal killing - if you approve of capital punishment then you secretly approve in your wicked heart of murder. Watch out for these that want to execute - they are dangerous and if given the chance would stuff those they don't like into a chamber and gas them.

Futher more - the twits that are common and base men and woman that are elected to parliment who booo - the idea of sparing a human life are people who have little self importance - who attempt to achieve importance by dispatching a human being into oblivion- this mod mentallity among the supposed sophisticated is akin to hunting an animal in a zoo - these cowards have it in them to kill providing it is easy and they personally will not be in harms way. I for one do not have it in me to kill a creature in a Zoo - or to hunt one from a helicopter - or to kill a man prone and strapped to a table - or to kill someone helpless confined in a metal box - apparently these barbarians want to feel relevant and sit and think to themselves - "I killed someone today- I have achieved power". Pathetic attempt at gaining manhood -

The idea of grace is a noble one - In the old days a generous and noble person was called "Your Grace" - Grace translated means "The undeserved mercey of God" - It is true class and sophistication - these guys in their 2000 dollar suits who under the impression of assisting society and sream out for state sponsored killing are not the friends of Canada - they have no true friends or loyalty...for they lack compassion and the power of love and function in hate...who the hell needs inferiours like these ruleing us?