Army Guy

Black dog: So you would feel comfortable wearing a t-shirt with an american flag on it down town in pakistan......perhaps buddy, buddy would be to strong a word for that comparison...they co-operate because of favours exchanged.... Are you serious, what ever happened to planting the explosives IED for example...car bombs by remote...you telling me that they are not smart enough to engage thier enemy without strapping explosives on... Have you ever listened to any of these shaks surmons...it is a learned thing...they learn it in thier religous cermonies,at school,at home, from TV, from thier peers.... So you agree that there are those that have been charged....oh by the way you have to get caught to get charged... again you are saying that this is common practice to target civilians and yet to provide any proof.. The US with good reason.... How did they do that... That is not the reason why, the US and the coalition which include Egypt...agreed to eject Sadam from Kuwait that was it... the muslims in the coalition did not want US or any other foreign country in Iraq at the time. The rest of the world did not want the US to enter Iraq either which included most of europe....the US did not stop the massacre because the UN did not let them they were still debating the idea........ Are you saying the US put sadam in charge...or for that matter Hilter, or stalin or what the leaders in Iran,jorden, any of those Stan countries.... No they did not ....i like to see a link on that....it might be a different story in central america....but you don't prop up a state that is openly hostile to your nation do you.... your right it does... some scared shitless pte is making those life and death decisions on the battle field and we are sitting here faulting him for it... while it is his efforts and blood that make the changes that are needed in this world....but don't worry we will forget about his deeds soon enough....

Trail and error: Canada is as much as a target as the US virtully by being next to it...A thermal nuclear wpn exploding even in calgary or edmonton would effect most of the northern half of the states with radition...a blast in toronto could effect the top two thirds of the US...not only from radition but blast effects as well...Any nuclear dentonation in North America would be bad....I personal do not think Canada could function in any mode after such an attack... Canada has full control of Norad when it's senior officer is on duty ...meaning they have certain control over the US nuclear arsenal....do you not think or trust a Canadain military member to do what was right... Effected in what way... the missle would be destroyed, all that would be left is the nuclear fuel, and some rocket parts...easily gathered up and disposed of... No i don't know what you mean....are you saying we are good because we have not done anything on the world stage...except to slam the US every chance we get...By not taking our world responsibilites seriously...by not taking our own defense seriously...by debating in the UN for months while thousands die...to agree that the war in Iraq was wrong, and allowing him to continue to kill thousands at his will regardless of reasons....if you get my drift... What threats has he made...about violating our air space to save millions of lives ....But we as Canadians want to stand around the smoking hole and say...god did we do that... This is not about bullies it is about protecting ourselfs...who cares if it does not get used,who cares if it has to use our airspace to work, it is an insurance policy just in case....do some research on the security of Russias current WMD arsenal and you'll see why i'm concerned...it is only a matter of time before someone gets ahold of one.... A 100 mega ton detonation would send a blast raduis well over 300 kms....and a radition cloud over most the country....is this what we want because we are quibling over airspace...Canada has a nation would cease....the casualities would be in the millions no western country has the medical or emergancy plan to cope with an accident of this nature... Just burying the dead would over whelm us...let alone the clean-up... Because i don't hate bush i have a problem...because i'm for a defensive weapon that could save millions of lifes...i've got a problem....or is it because i'm not a follower of your ideas that i've got a problem....you told me at the start i have not convinced you of having the BMD...you Sir have not convince me of anything other than disputing some of my reasons for BMD...convince me...

Black dog: Lets compare them with and where would you plan your holidays.... Azerbaijan,Kazakhstan,turmenstan,uzbekistan,hell anything with stan on the end including pakistan...all have worse human right records than Egypt , or Saudi not to mention Syria, Iran,yemen,Jorden,Omen. QUOTE In most cases it does not make any difference....except when you mix in religion ie the mulsim faith ...or revenge as a cause...these make it a whole new ball game...enough to make them strap on plastic explosives and kill your self for the cause... Ask a Canadian soldier to strap on explosives and to dentonate himself in a crowd of his enemies....and what will your answer be.... we continuly see the results when we ask a muslim to do the same act...it is not a random act it is a daily occurance in Iraq or palistine , or Isreal etc etc.... Talking and beating ones chest is one thing soldiers do that alot...doing the act is another....and it is against the geneva convention and is punishable war crime... perhaps you can explain that to a british SAS trooper who is being charged with Murder,over a shotting of a civilain Iraqi...the is also the US marine who is also charged with murder for shooting a wounded Iraqi insurgent....there are many more available on the US armed forces web sites also the british armed forces web site or any news paper most have carried lots of articles... Dead is dead i know...but you are putting all the blame on the US soldiers ....who have no choice or say on any matters. but who are we going to blame right.... Your right we should all go to our corners and mind our own business...let the Hilters,Stalins,Sadams,Kadafi's, and the many others reak havoc where ever they want....to slaughter whom ever they want for what ever reasons....to live our lives in fear not knowing if we are next.... Yes, this is a war zone...not down town Victoria....people are going to die...innocent or not...an accident is just that an unplanned incident...you kill someone in a uncontrolable car accident does that mean you should be charge with murder... Soldiers go to war when politions fail to solve thier problem like adults...War is not the fault of those that do the fighting but thier leaders. Blame them....

Anticlimates: This is not about the world it is about the USA, and the 3000 of thier country men how perished in a single day...something that has not happen since WWII...it is a major moment in thier history...you've chosen a poor example to bash bush.... Say's who ? you....your just one person with a hard on for the bush adminstration....or the next one or the next one...you need to get a life....instead of runnig around the niebourhood in your underwear shouting the US is coming to get me...there in my mind ....help me...

Black dog: Those two contries we were talking about , are light years ahead of the other middle east countries and are still making progress, then the process is working...it is an extreme slow one....if you understood people then change has to be made slowly...you don't undo 5000 years of history over night... Soldiers who wear uniforms and form a part of an army of a country that has signed the geneva convention,are bound to follow the convention or be punished with commiting war crimes....not wearing a uniform makes you a civilian or non combative person...unless you arm your self or are seen helping the bad guys ......if your seen to have picked up a wpn then drop it your still a combative an by law can be targeted by your enemy... That said soldiers are only allowed to target military targets...churchs ,musems,etc are non targets ...unless the enemy is using said building to hide or engage you from...then they can be fired upon,until the enemy is dislodged...there are many more laws that guide a soldier through combat... that is the difference between a soldier and a terrorist...terrorists did not sign the convention and regularly target civilian targets to creat fear and terror within the population so that they will put presure on thier goverment s to comply with the terrorist demands... Ultimately, someone like Charles Graner or the American sniper who (allegedly) picked off an entire family in Fallujah while they were under a flag of truce is on the same moral plane than a sucide bomber. So you're saying that no Iraqi civilians have died at the hands of American troops? Or that it happens, but only occassionally and by accident?

I am not going to defend either for their human rights records....but you can't tell me that Sadam and his regime are the same monsters... Key word here is "Job"....Yes that job entails that they may have to kill or be killed....but remember it's a job... you can not compare the motivation of a Muslim bomber to a Canadian Soldier in regards to dieing for a cause or believe... your not going to get a Canadian soldier to strap on 50 lbs of C-4 and detonate in a crowd.... Your comment has left me speechless...what can i say...if this is what you think is happening over there then it is your opinon ...an uneducated one... but yours...

Black dog: In regards to thier common laws..true as most are taken from thier Koran or bible....whipping,cutting off of hands are all in thier common laws... The Gassing of kurds happened between the Gulf wars, the disappearance of thousands happen before,during and after the gulf war... The hundreds of public excutions that happened in Afgan were a dialy event,held in a sports arenas for all to veiw.... it is these acts that is not happening in Suadi, or Egypt... I agree with you...and there is presure being brought to bear in getting them to improve the human rights record...and it will take some time.... Give me a break...Canada has a military force of 53,000 out of 32 million people...besides most join the military for the adventure, the idea that it is cool to go to war...it is after that all veterns who have experiance war will tell you it is "HELL" for the lack of a better description. Muslims reason are religous and are based on hate...

Caesar: You have painted them all with the same Brush. This is your quote below is it not......you've based your opinon on one individuals service record that are over 10 years old now... I glad that you keep-up with current affairs especially when it comes to our service men and women, I think they would be more than thrilled to hear your opinions from you... That is why there are more Canadian Armed Forces persons killed every year in the line of duty than all of police forces in Canada combined....Again thank-you for keeping-up with current affairs. "Chest beating" if that is what you call a few military members trying to figure out whether to quit or not because they do not figure it is worth it any more than sure....again you are entitled to your opinion...and we have already seen how you form your opinions... Your right i and many like me did chose to serve our country, and we excepted that in doing so that there would be many times our lives would be in danger.... But we also expected our country to provide us all the tools to do the job, affording us the maxium safety possiable...and they are not doing that, they are not living up to their end of the deal....so if thats what you call whinning then yes i'm guilty along with 53,000 other military members....... But it's easy to judge others from your lazy boy chair,form a few opinons from next to no information...then belch out how things should work in your world....I sir, work and train in the real world every day....and before you judge me or any other DND Member do some research.

Black dog: Your right, I've been to both countries and thier human rights can not compare to Canada's...that being said they are light years ahead of of most middle east countries...and they don't gas they own people with chemical agents, nor excute them by the hundreds. Thats not what i said, i said that most male muslims would gladly give thier lives for thier religion or cause. It is a sweeping statement, they believe that to die fighting thier enemies is a sure way to get into heaven... I'm not going to say they do not act in thier national interest, i'm sure every country has an agenda including Canada...and if that nation was forced to be the world's policemen i would say it was a benifit of the job..... to compare Russia's and China with the US is just a bit unfair....considering that Russia and China's whole objective was to spread communism around the globe through direct military action and regardless of cost...

Caesar: Are you suggesting that todays Canadian soldier is not sacraficing anything for thier country.... May i ask what you do for a living,and what sacrafice you have made that allows you to condemn those that serve Canada today.

Black dog: These two countries are the largest of the Musilm countries within the middle east, and they hold alot of polictical power in regards to all muslims in the area. It makes sense to have good ties or relations with said countries. Perhaps if you rephrased it. most male muslims will readily give thier lifes for thier religion,or cause. If not them who...i don't see nations lining-up to even help ....And if we are not even willing to help, then what gives us the right to condemn them for trying...

Carsar: You are entitled to your opinion...., the reason i made this post was me and serveral other Infantry Soldiers were having a discussion at work...It's topic was that the citizens of Canada would not even notice if it's military just ceased to exist...nor do they care if Canada has a military or not....This attitude is taken from the way Canada treats it's military in regards to it's budget or other priorities.... Yes your right Canada has always in one form or another had some sort of military force...Boar war...a massive recruitment drive had to be done to send Canadian troops to SA...in such a hurry that training was not completed...Canadian soldiers paid the price with there lives. WWI at the start the Canadian military was just a few thousand personal strong...a major recruitment drive and again we sent alot of green ,not fully trained Canadian soldiers into battle agian we paid for that mistake in Blood.... then WWII came canada srambled to put together a force to send over seas ...this time we were lucky and they were not thrown into battle but were allow some training.... Korea comes along a major recruitment drive ...again green,not fully trained personal are thrown into war...again we pay that with blood of our young soldiers.... So you see Canada learns nothing from history other than those soldiers /citizens have to learn the art of warfare with the blood of many young Canadians...this is just one reason we need a moderate Armed forces.... Canada does invade other countries it's well published in our military history....normandy was an invasion...so was the landing in korea....etc etc. Members of the Armed forces, dozens of individuls, groups,nations, NATO, UN have continuely asked Canada to something in regards to our forces....we as a nation continuely nod yes, ....we are embrassed but will do nothing... To sum -up WE wanted to know as serving members within DND is our sarcrafice worth our time and effort...

Anticlimates: So what does remembering those that died in 9/11 have anything to do with your hate for Bush...by attacking those innocent poeple you attack Bush is that it.... You are Canadian right...the reason i ask is if you are... should you not be asking your questions towards our goverment... Ringo: You don't think remembering those 3000 of your own countrymen is worthy of your efforts.

caesar: When have they done that....or are you talking in the future....to intercept a incoming missile...you do know the effects of even a small nuclear detonation. Are you impling that we are paying our way in regards to defense....Canada backed out of most of it's NATO commitments over in Europe those responsabilities were taken over by the US and Germany....Canada openly neglects it's military because the US has agreed to come to our aid if attacked or threaten...Canada depends on the US or others for sea and air lift....the list goes on and on.... Before you start throwing rocks you should check on how well Canada is doing in regards to it's UN dues...Most of which used to be payed by having Canada's troops deploy on UN operations...that is not happening very ofen now and soon it will be down to less than 100 pers on UN operations world wide... The US is the worlds policemen,like it or not...what does Canada as a mid power do on the world stage... you mean The US has pissed off the dictators,or other nations bent on undermining world peace or stability.... It has cost Canadians nothing to date, and it would be an extra insurance policy in todays world of uncertainity... Then you believe that the Iraqis were much better off under the rule of Sadam....over 500,000 of his own people have been disappeared...how many Kurds...were gassed with chemical wpns...It's easy to count the every death as someone who opposed the US operations... I think the proof is all the blue /purple fingers ...people went out to vote even when the terrorist threaten thier lives....they voted because they wanted change...they want peace...and peace has its cost...

You've got to be joking right....3000 lives where extiguished in perhaps the largest lost of life in North America due to enemy or terrorist action....some of which were Canadian...and you want to know why is it still news worthy... Perhaps the question should be why do you hate everything american ? Rwanda, what did you do for those 100 days ? what did world do for those 100 days....and finally what did Canada do during those 100 days....

Caesar: Your right, he was elected by US citizens to be the leader of the most powerful nation in the world. With that comes a responsabilty that perhaps we don't understand....I'm not making excuses for anything the US does just that we tend to as a nation tend to throw rocks at our neibours while living in a glass house as well. What is it that the UN is effective at.... What bulling tactics....and what international laws have been broken...Perhaps the US is tied of paying our way in regards to defense or our international responsibilties. and just wants us to step-up to the plate.... DO you really expect the US to allow a Canadian city to go up in a ball of fire....because we as Canadians did not give the green light to fire a missile.... Nor do i believe that Canada will mind if the US launches a missile over Canada to intercept a onincoming missle to a US City.

Caesar: Do you honestly think that Canada is safer today because we have not joined in on BMD....because Canada has allied herself in hundreds of US miiltary projects... We as a nation remain safe today because the US is the worlds most powerful nation in the world and we fall under her umbrella of protection.... Not because we respect international law...(that is directly responsable for the deaths of thousands),something to be proud of........or we are not threats to other nations..(And how would we do that) I can't believe you are willing to risk the lives of millions because of your pride, so that you can have your self respect and live by your ideals...turn the other cheek in todays world only means it to will get slapped ....It's time that Canadains grow-up and take responsabilty for thier own defense.... I on the other hand will swallow my pride if it will mean that my family will have every protection that was available or afforded it....so that they will have a secure future.

Anticlimates: No matter what i or others say it will not be enough to convince you that BMD is not this big monster that you paint it to be.... I did not say the US would pay for it all..... Most of the R&D for this project is done...they are in the testing phase...so yes the US has paid for with their tax dollars the most expensive part of the program.... Has the US asked us to ponie up and pay for any of this system, todate....All that has been asked of Canada todate is for us to join and support the system....not with funding but with our support.... Will they in the future ask us to fill thier pockets...sorry my crystal ball is in the shop this week..... Look I'm not a BMD expert...and i am basing my answer on experiance and common sense... "Having missles based in Canada would improve the reaction time and interception would be in the artic region vice over a more populated region of Canada"... What are you afraid of...is it the act itself "of defending yourself"..and the rest of the country...or is it you might have to spend some of our tax dollars.....or is it because the US goverment is involved, so it must be bad...

Trail and error: It would have a similar set up as Norad...Meaning that Norad at times is under full control of a senior Canadian military member. It also has dozens of Canadain officers and other ranks working the controls "sort of speaking"...BMD defense would have Canadian military persons assiting with the project at all levels...This would give our gov't as much warning as the US gov't has.... The up-side: It has not cost the tax payers of Canada nothing todate, ...it would give Canada access to this type of tech....It would put Canadians at the controls of said defense system....It would allow if agreed to ...to have missle sites in northern Canada allowing for an interception in the artic region away from populated centers. It would go a long way into repairing our relationship with the US...in would also signal that we are starting to take our defense seriously.....

The liberal goverment could not make a decision if thier lifes depended on it....instead they mumble and delay as long as they can while constantly looking over thier should to see what we the people want....yes,no,yes,no,yes, is it a full moon....what month is it.... This is not leadership....martin is not a leader.....what we need is leadership that is capable of making a informed decision and sticking with it... How many people out there really think that "if" a missle is fired at the US that they are not going to engage it, to defend themselfs....be it over Canada or not....do you think they are going to phone and ask permission.....and if we say no....and they engage it any ways...what then....we grab our protesting signs,dig out our song sheets, pack some mushrooms into a baggie and march to the US embassy.... You can't have both ways....you spoke and our spineless leader listened....the Answer is "no" atleast today....NO BMD ...we as a nation do not want to have anything to do with it....oh by the way phone us and let us know if you want to engage anything over Canada... do ya Think we'll get a call....

Yes 9 bil of that 13 bil is to pay for commitments the liberals already agreed to...leaving 3.8 bil in new monies...for new equipment...but not for another 2 years.... But that is the liberal way of doing things...they always have an out...every budget they bring out is smoking mirrors. It clearly does not show the leadership that we were looking for. Most of that 500 million will go to pay for Afgan and our NEW commitment there...same as the 600 million next year...DND already runs a deficet of 1.5 bil a year....and that will continue to grow every year...with 5000 more soldiers on the pay roll,it's going to get out of hand quickly.... That being said getting the liberals to spend 3.8 bil on defense is a miricle....

It is a great start, one i never thought i'd see under the liberals....and i don't want to sound ungrateful but it is just a start and much more will be needed in the future.

Newfie Canadian: First off , I'd like to thank you, and those Canadians who have put in the effort and supported Canada's Armed Forces. It means alot to soldiers who are away from thier families. I think the ordinary citizen can accomplish alot. I know of military wives that are involved in large letter writing campaigns to thier MP's....it works citizens have made the difference on many issues before. I'm not saying that DND's problems are the countries most important ones, but in there current state it should rank in the top 3. But when it is all said and done. Canada's soldiers will continue to serve Canadian's ....be it in new upto date equipment or on the back of a donkey....Canadain soldiers are famous for doing miracles with nothing. although it would be nice to have the equipment we need to do the job that "we" demand of our soldiers. equipment that will ensure our safety, ensure our edge over our enemies on the battle field, allowing soldiers to get back to their families in one peice.... Our Goverment needs to make the right decissions not just the popular ones...Lives are at stake...

Stoker: The lights are coming on...I agree totally...

eureka: Even for an army guy i do care about environmental issues, As i've seen mother nature when she's have a bad hair day, IE... the manatoba floods, Ice storm, forrest fires. DND has always been there for the people of Canada, and even the world most of the time. There is not another Dept within the gov't that has the equip,or people to even attempt to handle the oceans raising a few feet... That being said "if " the gov't acted today and gave up the many bils that could save DND would our enviroment issues be solved....would that stop the oceans from rising... Newfie Canadian : QUOTE Tired of risking thier lifes with no support from our Own country. I would hope you meant to say "...our own government."