Army Guy

Peter is going to have to defend his job by convincing Canadians that Canadian content or protecting Canadian identy is worth the tax payers money we spend on it... Now it is his mistress man this gets dirtier ever minute.... I guess he'll say "is this seat taken Ma'am" when he takes the grey hound bus....but until then why not use the assets available to him which cost the tax payers money even if they sit on the ground, because we want pilots to maintain their qualifications...which means flying..not a DND rule but a governmental one...change the rule and poof you have a case...of course we also have pilots that may not be up to par...but hey we are saving money and guess what the Gen is finding another mode of transport....maybe a F-18...maybe his bike... I say we start with welfare....and stomp out all those that don't really need it....or uneployment....to seasonal workers...who only made 150 k last year during the lobster season....and spends the rest of the year on pogy...

Perhaps i'm a retard but i'm not getting this trading in US dollar thing....i purchase alot of thing in the US on e bay i pay in US dollars or what is equilant in Canadian dollars....i did not have to purchase any US currency, just it's value compared to what currency i'm using.... It does not explain the other piont is the US or any coalition memeber getting Iraqi oil for free or for less than OPEC pricing....if not then why should i have Empathy for our Arab / muslim brothers if their nation gets paid for their oil at world market prices, how are we stealing it....and how is it our problem if their nation can not share the wealth....how is that my fault, and how does that give them a right to fly planes into the towers...I'm confused... a couple of hundred troops does not make an invasion force, it barely makes a training team....NATO will not put boots on the ground unless requested....but that does not matter does it, NATO will be seen as a invasion force, and punished by extremist anyways....including by our own country men....i don't think they are ready to get burned twice....

In political terms why not start with CBC, if the times are getting that desparate then perhaps it is time we look at major savings and not one general flying around doing his job, or perhaps taking a well deserved rest from it...so what does the CBC provide Canadians, other than Hockey night in Canada, little mosque on the praire... Do we need them to preserve Canadian indentity, hell we had this debate long ago on what is the Canadian identity and most said we could not define it....So we watch more American TV...although i do like the new show Rockie blue.... What about the other programs welfare and unemplyment insurance, fixing our health care system....why are people not bringing up the big issues ....issues that are in my opion a waste of tax payers funds....I'm sure others can find some others....and yet my orginal piont is we are Canadians and we will bitch but in the end we will do nothing....thats just the Canadian way....sure we'll slap someone around for awhile, pick on the small guys but we turn a blind eye to the big problems.... The western ciivlization will always be here, it just may be under a new form of government...which i personally think would be a good idea, but perhaps not feasiable until it is forced or melts down... So lets change it but lets start with the bigger problems and as it changes the Gens will change with it....

If we are so interested in governmental waste why start with the CDS...why not start with the bigger problems in our country...why not start with the problems that will actually make a difference in our taxes....Starting with the CDS seems like we lack imigination , seems like we can't even take the time and come up with our own ideas and forms of protest, instead of jumping on the media band wagon, on a problem that really is no bigger than a mouse compared to some of the elephants that linger around soaking up most of our tax dollars.....must of been a slow news day....and like typical Canadians we feed on what we are force feed....does not sound like we want change at all, sounds like we are to damn lazy for change....

No it is not, If you support the vid and it's claim then prove that Iraqi's oil is being stolen, be it for free or well below the world market value.... And if Libya is proof, why not just land ground troops and be done with it....

A Radical Experiment in Empathy: I watched your youtube segiment twice now, and have come to the conclusion it's full of crap, or maybe i'm just not getting it... It basically says that the US is taking oil from Arab Muslim countries without paying for it, stealing the resources...according to the clip....Thats quite the claim....yet they provide no proof just claim it to be so.... And here i thought OPEC set the price on a barrel of oil, arn't they Arab muslims....are these prices just for the rest of the world because i'm confused....what is the price of a barrel of oil, and how much are arab countries selling it for....and what is the break down from that sale... why is it that Sadam had palaces are paved in gold and the worlds finest arts, and other materials...why is it the richest city in the world Dubia ..is in the middle east...why is it Iran can presue a Nuclear wpns program....where are all the profits going from the sale of this oil....anyone...are you suggesting it is all being funeled back to the US....because if you are i'd like a source.... And if it is not being funeled back to the US, How can you want me to put myself in their shoes....So if i get this right the US who purchases their resources at market value...and don't tell me over a 100 dollars a barrel is not fair.....that funding does go into that muslim nations coffers...there dictactors or what ever you call them decides on how to share this wealth from within....and somehow Muhamad gets pissed off at the US because our nations are fat and happy, and somehow i'm suppose to feel sorry for Muhamad...because his government is keeping all those profits... and i'm suppose to understand ....when they decide they want more out of life and decide to start killing westerners.... I do understand , i understand fully, i understand we have the right to protect ourselfs, we have the right to take the fight back to them, why would we not decide to take that fight to their streets, their neibourhoods. Empathy....i've seen their empathy up close and personal...and it sucks...and i'm not alone in that line of thinking in fact most NATO countries feel the same way, to the piont they have sent Combat forces to close with and destroy these Muslim fanatics you want me to have empathy for...As for the majority of the population, there is empathy tones of it...one of the reason i completed 3 tours in Afghan....and i've talked to loads of AFghan civilians and none of them have said anything discribed in your vid....

I'm not in charge of anything including my world, But while you got your head stuck in the sand enjoying whats yours and living the good life here in Canada, there are some of us that believe that there are moments in history that other nations need a helping hand to over come a dictator, or other ruthless leader, perhaps changing forms of government as well ...history is full of those examples like Hitler,Stalin,well you know the list.... which have complete control of a nation and rule with an iron fist...others in your nation have tried to make changes and have disapeared....fear grows to it has complete control over you and whats yours...until you and them decide at least i'm alive for now...change costs to much... And yet here we all live in Canada the land of the rich and famous and for most of us we live a good life, enjoy a good standard of living ....our nation is fairly wealthy and we have something to offer the rest of the world....the biggest gift of all freedom.... Clean it up and move on....well our nation has become liberalized and has agreed to enter armed conflicts with one arm behind our backs...no problem our military will adapt, and become victorous we all shout...we've defeated our enemies but that was the easy part....now we have to set this nation up for sucess or fear it will return back to it's orginal state....thats the hard part, and it takes generations and bils or trilions of dollars that is what reasonable conquors do....Nation building has worked in the past and is still working today...you need to give it time to work, but we come from a fast food nation, we want it now no excuses.... As for the government being corrupt, shit how many scandles has our governments had....so why would we not cut them some slack and allow them to grow as a nation. I don't waqnt to be a savoir....but atleast my head is not stuck in the sand and i've tried to do as much as one person could, i've served my country 3 times already...my chioce , because i believe one person can make a difference...one nation can also make a difference and perhaps grant their one wish which is freedom, peace....to much for you, fine there are plenty that want to make a difference ...but because you don't understand that you condemn those that atleast try.....

I think we all get frustrated with government spending, but do you think we'd really be saving any funds by forcing the CDS , plus staff, flying commerical air...should we look at some of the problems before thinking we are really going to save any money here.....what class do we assign him and his staff, do we limit the CDS staff , do we allow his armed security detail, do we want to put at risk general population on board with his presence, do we even want to risk an incident , do we increase security for these flights.... what about perception from other nations....the CDS landing in some civilian airport in commercial aircraft going through regular customs. What if an incident requires the CDS to divert ?, what about sceduling does the CDS modify his scedule to flight times, what do we do if he needs to last minute re scedule ....or do we use an aircraft that was purchased for exactly these reasons....These aircraft have access to all the special comms gear these individuals need to govern their depts and the country if need to be....

My piont is regardless if it was for control, or to secure what currancy it was sold in ....do you think it was worth the trillions they have spent todate....or do you think there was more to it, if so what would be worth a trillion....

Life in Afghanistan is changed by maga leaps and bounds....The Average Afghan does not want to live that way, they want peace, they want work, they want to eat, they want a decent place to live....sound familar....ya hard to believe that sheep hearders and poppy growers want pretty much what we want....As for change they all want it , but live in fear....amasing what a few thousand fanitics can do when they want to live at the top of the power ladder, and force their will on all those below them.... YA YA history is full of armies trying to conquor Afghanistan....how many wanted to assist the legitimate Afghan Government in rebuilding their nation they way they seen fit....

I call Bullshit....need a valid source....are you saying the US spent trillions of dollars in this conflict to have all Iraq's oil....One would think a trillion dollars buys a shit load of oil....and this money could of been spent securing a better more reliable source than Iraq....so maybe there is more to the story.....

Let me ask you this if regular sanctions do not work or are ineffective what does the UN do to make a country comply? is that make tougher sanction rules or do nothing and have these rougue nations do anything they wish, in this case invade another nation Then how do you force a country to comply with lawful sactions ? So based on your opinion ALL sanctions are criminal failures, if you examine any UN sanctions they are designed to put undo hardship on the people of the country Assuming their leaders will bend and comply with the UN intentions....these are not the only sanctions that have caused deaths, or untold suffering...Somilia is a huge example.... As for our grand Humanitarianism and noble motives go.... i think it has a huge learning curve, for every government, and every leader, and starts over as governments change leaders change...hence why we seem to repeat our mistakes...But i don't think we can call these mistakes criminal, and while deaths and suffering did occur Change within nations seldom occur with out it. Lets all ask ourselfs what about Somilia we tried to force change there and were are we today were are they today...every second info merical is send money please to help feed the starving...what they dont tell you is how much of that money goes to helping the poor , hungry and sick....and how much goes to feeding the terrorist that have caused the hardship there.... No they did not regime change did happen, failure to comply with sanctions did lead up to military action....Sadam and his merry gang where hung, as a result...Iraq now has a government which will sprout and grow into itself... I defend it because change is what the majority of Iraqis wanted, most of the fighting now is how that change is to look like that is what the majority can not come to an agreement on. but sooner or later they will...living under a dictatorship is brutal, even persons devoted to sadam were punished without rime or reason, for nothing...living in fear of your life and the lifes of your family is just one of the small reasons change was needed.... It is hard to see that very piont in all your posts....which are a fair number and yet you've taken one line to describe that and many para's to describe the US involement in all this.. The US has been the worlds policemen for decades, and when they spring into action we or i should say most of us sit back and piont fingers or Quaterback from the sidelines...and when they don't spring into action we all scracth our heads and yell why not.... We both agree that UN sanctions are pretty much a useless and ineffective ....Kind of like sending your child to their room.... You have also just stated that "UN" sanctions being the key word here are still "UN" sanctions regardless who is the architect, they are still voted on and many countries have veto power and yet NONE used it...and yet we are sitting here pionting the fingers at the US and UK, because why ? The UN monitors all sactions and can change or cancel any or all sanctions IS THIS TRUE according to the UN web site it is "ANY nation could have put forth a motion to stop this sanction in place or have it changed....and none did including Canada who according to your sources strongly objected....So to all these nations all these deaths from these sanctions meant what exactly ? The US did not break any rules that the UN or for that matter the rest of the world nations within it did not allow to happen... If we are going to lay blame at someones feet then atleast lets lay it at where it belongs,and list everyone that is guilty ....Canada or for that matter anyone could have stood up and said NO this is wrong...But they did not, they let it run it's course, why because they wanted the same results, they wanted Sadam and his merry band stopped....they wanted regime change and they got it....how through the US and UK governments holding the Iraqi peoples feet to the flame to answer for their governments actions....and although this sanction was tougher than any historically put in palce ...the entire piont of a sanction is to inflict pain and suffering on the people to force change.....but not a mention on that because that would mean taking a look at all sanctions....and perhaps ourselfs... Iraq answered for the injustice it had inflicted on others just as any other nation has....and in the big picture had not even scratched the surface on what Japan or german suffered for theirs...Still today it is rare to say those actions taken again'st Germany and Japan were criminal....So why now, why Iraq...Why Afghan....

I think your piont was the US and UK actions and sanctions went above and beyond what is the norm, causing undo hardship on the Iraqi people...That is the orginal piont is it not cause hardship to everyone in that country so that the leadership is presured by the people into submitting....Or i'm i missing something.... Knowing full well that very few if any sancations work, why waste the time with them, unless they are made more severe as to force change.... NO, the US and UK were the primary enforcers of the sancations...piont of order so was Canada involved in the blockade....so it could not be that strong of an objection. Why would they hurt Sadam, besides UN does not impose sanctions on a nation to hurt it's government leaders...they are meant to make the people suffer so they are forced to make change...Sadam was in the palaces drinking and eating the finest wines and foods from around the globe....no sanction would have worked again'st him unless it was tough enough....kind of like telling little billy go to your room...and he does not listen....and yet you know that already...but we blame the US for all those deaths caused by the sanctions....how much blame does Sadam and his government get....because i've yet to see many on this board drop any blame one other door steps just on the US... The piont is to force the people to make change....you say needless suffering, as it did not have an effect on Sadam...perhaps not, but you know as well as i do that any UN sanction has about as much effect as me telling you to go to your room....

Bloodyminded: Maybe i'm not getting the same Sat coverage as you, but all the coverage i seen the entire day was about the Human aspect of it...in the west, in the middle east certain groups might see it as the day a blow was delivered to the US.....but here in America it is seen as mostly a day of rememberence like Nov 11. I'm sure if we look back far enough in history one could say that about every nation. As for pretending how we behave there is a major difference between western countries and say middle eastern countries....in every aspect there is no comparison... There is a clear separation...NATO is restricted by the genva convention, and how it conducts warfare, it controls the conduct of their soldiers or holds them responable.... i don't recall any NATO nation cutting off girls hands to make a statement, or intentionally targeting civilians, limiting who gets an education, etc etc the list is long.... and while it might seem to you the separation remains dubious, great pains go into limiting cilvilian cas, and deaths...to the piont NATO soldiers lives have been sacraficed to limit civilian cas or damage to non military targets...But as in any war, civilians normally pay a higher price than the army.

bloodyminded Question when has any UN sanction met it's primary goal, in your opinion are they effective? Strong objections...Since when does the US or the UK run anything in the UN, the head of the UN could have imposed or lifted any of those actions if it wanted to....thats the difference between actions and words.... And while it is your opinion that what ever the Boss does i appluad , that BS.in the case of 9/11 yes i do agree, in the case of Iraq yes i do agree... thats a load of crap....Sadam and the powers to be in Iraq could have prevented it all...but then i guess it isOK to over run another country and not pay for that in any form of justice...whats the piont of any sanctions if they are not to be enforced....what is the piont of any laws if they are not to be enforced.... Funney you bring this up but is this not what Sadam did....so in bringing him and his cronies down the coalition is now war criminals....

Your piont of view...I'm sure those that those people who's lives are changed forever on 9/11 think differently, and to them i'm sure having the President of the US there personally involed in these rememberances is some what a comfort... Your not telling everyone.... that western powers in Afghan and Iraq conflicts have targeted inocent cilians are you.....Or are you saying the intentional targeting of civilians and the accidental deaths of cilvilians are the same..... Really...I agree with you, and why should i or for that matter anyone else not take issue with with what happen on 9/11, why should we not be as committed as they are to their total destruction as they are ours. After all it was them that took this fight to us was it not. What separates us and them is how we conduct ourselfs.

It's not what i believe it is fact.... 1 st Gulf war started Aug 1990. Afghan war started Oct 2001 2 and Gulf war started in March 2003. This is the War in which your own sources are reflected at...Flawed as they are, for instance while the head of the UN has publically said according to the UN charter the invasion was in his words illigal, Britain and the US have quoted that "The attorney-general made the "legal basis... clear at the time". " Your documented Iraqi civilian death count is also flawed as it counts all deaths occured during the conflict including those inflicted by the insurgents...you can't hold the coalition responsable for their enemies actions.... The use of torture was not documented until the 2 And Gulf war so it is a mout piont that does not support your argument of blow back. If you had read Bin Ladins translated letter which explains why he attacked the US , he clearly mentions one of the reasons he attacked was the UN sanctions again'st Iraq, we can hardly blame the US for UN sanctions can we.... reasons

Both wars are not related to each other....Afghanistan is the result of the 9/11 attacks.... 2and Gulf war...happen well after the 9/11 attack in which the UN approval was not intially granted, and the alligations of torture happened ...like i said some research.... exactly what US actions are responsiable to tip Bin Ladin over the edge , and exicute Sept 11....

Then you should ask Mr Chretien what agreements he signed without general public knowledge, shit we had over 30 active regular force memebrs in US army units during both wars....we also had serveral Canadian Naval units patroling the Gulf during the war ....ya you guessed it assisting US naval activities in the Gulf war....in both gulf wars.... not counting of course the Airforces role with Maritime patrol aircraft,CF 18's and the Army also had a field Hospital, and Inf support to the hospital....during the first gulf war , not so much in the 2 And.

Should we ignore the fact that the American Government reaction was criminal. Should we ignore the fact of 102,417 - 111,938 Documented Iraq civilian deaths. What about the use of torture?The rest of the world doesn't have the balls to call them on it. Place the blame on the people responsible, and I'm not just talking about the so called terrorists. Blowback is a bitch. The American people paid the price for having a Corporatocracy. you do know we are talking about Sept 11, 2001....and Iraq and Afghanistan wars are not related in anyway right.... may be you should do some research first.....get some dates compare time lines you know some research... Blow back or did you mean payback.... Corporatocracy, could cover the entire western world....do we all deserve to be attacked for some twisted reasons or just the US....

Have you read this entire post or the others on the same topic .....take a minute and catch up. Shit you even acknowleged it below ....that is one of your posts is it not.... Are you saying that Bin Labin may have had legitimate excuses for Sept 11, or are you saying US foreign policy may of been one of the dozens of excuses Bin Ladin used to attack.... Trust me, if there is one Canadian that could stop this conflict with out blood shed i'd would be that guy...but i've seen these guys in action up close and personal and nothing is going to stop them except the use of force. And until you understand that then your not understanding the problem.... perhaps it is you that needs to answer some tough questions like is your money on the right horse....just maybe these so called hawks are right...and maybe just maybe you need to sit down and listen alittle. My vailed suggestion?..I have no problem with questions debates,what ever....but there is not much to question here is there, Bin Ladin planned and carried out an attack on the Towers, killing over 3000 people in the matter of minutes....we all watched in horror that day the events unfolded..we as a nation also cheered the day our nation sent over Combat forces to assist in this new conflict....started by a man with some twisted ideas to get even at the great satin for evil things they had done to whom exactly.... No where in my post did i suggest we could not question any action, our governmant has taken...but this is not about our government is it....as far as the US government decision to react to the murder of 3000 of it's citizens "giver"uestion all you wantbut i'd like to think it was the right one, on both nations part. if that makes me a toadie so be it....any other toadies out there....or do you beleive Bin ladin had justification for the attck.

To say the US had it coming is absolutely Moronic, in fact damn right insensitive to our southern neighbours, and to those Canadian citizens who also died that day ....a day of remembrance no less....and judging by what a few posters that have based their opinions on what sounds like regurgitated propaganda spewed out by the left, others and unfortunately those Canadians that want to remain trendy by shaking their long crooked fingers at our allies and blame the worlds problems on the US. How we like to have our cake and eat it to....I mean Canada depends on the US for it's very existence...be it in Trade, ya we like the color of money don't we....and we love the America dollar just as much as the next guy...be it for defence...YA we like paying nearly dick all for our own defence, life is good living under the US defence umbrella.... And for the most part we like that it is the US that is the worlds policemen....unlike say Russia, or perhaps China in the near future....we like that fact they pay for all that.... something bad happens and the our first thought is "when are the Americans going to react to that" like some kid hiding behind his big brothers back.... Someone once mentioned what does it mean to be Canadian, their reply was Not to be American....Don't get me wrong but if that’s all we got it's pretty sad....but reading some of these posts that is exactly what comes across...just putting that in perspective or changing shoes for one second....if I was American and reading these posts I’d be showing you the door, saying thanks for coming out, but your not worth it.... To give the actions of Bin Ladin and his merry crew or for that matter any terrorist group with an axe to grind any credence is just plain retarded...yes I said retarded ....Who gave anyone the right to take innocence life’s because they did not like anyone’s foreign policy, or the way the west was treating one religion....and where does it stop...I've yet to get my pilots lic and fly a plane into someone’s home because I did not like what they posted here....there can only be one line in the sand...and that is to send one message to all those with axes to grind, you mess with the bull and your going to get the horns...or we are forever going to be dealing with these wing nuts until we appease them all. The message we should be sending our brothers and sisters in the south on this day is we mourn with you we stand with you, shoulder to shoulder, in this conflict...nothing more nothing less.

Your right William, patroling is combat related...and as long as we have Canadian soldiers on the ground the government and the military is going to take every precaution to safe gaurd lifes....most of the troops in Kanadar are logistics and maintainers who are busy tearing the camp down, sorting through 1000's of sea cans, warehouses, other storeage facilities ensuring everything is servicable if it is not they are fixing it, or rendering it non lethal, or non useable..this they already reported will take more than a years time after the Combat forces left... Well william these troops need a force protection unit...hence the guy in the news paper....while most of this equipment will be shipped back to Canada, some of it will be re used in the training mission in Kabul and it will travel by road...and it does need a Comabt force to do so....They did not lie to you...you just fail to educate your self on what it takes to draw down a mission and what force is required to do that.... Once again they are in the middle of a war zone, and precautions need to be taken....and yes your right if they are fired upon they will fire back...it's what we do in a war zone....there has been no true or surrender agreement signed, any Canadian in Afghan is a target....and they will take every precaution to safe gaurd lifes....ending the Comabt mission means we have stopped NATO Combat missions or operations ...it does not mean we are going to stop protecting ourselfs...

A naval ves from any nation is sovereign territory and can be defended any where, any time , including blowing boats, swimmers etc, what ever out of the water.....

Tin foil indeed....so much for reading your own sources....i thought it would sort of self evident, your in the middle of a war zone, with a war still ongoing why would you not have combat forces there...they did report that it would take roughly one full year to get all our equipment back.... My link