Yesterday

I look at this book and wonder how much this work is responsible for the current monster of debt? I feel the same about the need for circulating medium to be fixed to an asset value, and definitely agree with you and disagree with buddy here over the value of debt. Just wondering....is it a trick of old English or perhaps am I being a bit thick...but doesn't this sentence seem to negate his point? I would have to contend that the law regarding the use of/definition of debt/credit would of been able to hold a moral footing in that regardless of the fact that scientifically you can add the sides and come up with similar ends, debt is a bad thing and should be subject to a more biased set of regulations and definitions. Today's scenario proves the fallacy of this theory.

Hi Pliny, I'm glad you feel this way. I am awful at expressing myself...hoping to learn better how to understand my own point of view and be effective with it too. That, and there is so much I want to learn and understand...I am pretty much a introvert...this is a big step for me. People as a general rule freak me out but I find everyone so interesting at the same time. Sorry my bad....giggle. I think I got ahead of myself. I'll pull some material out of this book to help explain myself better on another post. I didn't think so but I'm still expanding my understanding of what Libertarian really is...

A very well chosen article, thank-you. It's kind of funny, last night I was sitting with a friend of mine who touched on the subject of the Patriot Act. I looked at him and said,' You know, lets look at it from a strictly strategic point of view. I wonder what its true importance is?'. I would put this article on the table as a reference to such strategy. What an interesting comparison of so many leaders. He lines them up pretty good over their transgressions with this Act. I guess with a history like this the fear I see in the possible magnifying of this situation could be well grounded but first we need to see what Obama would do in such a case as this. And yes, both US and Canadian stock(people) are tough and resilient as are most of the immigrants and such. Bouncing back is the only option! I wonder what Harper would do?

So, one of your concerns is the disinformation and misunderstanding of the US and I don't blame you. Isn't that interesting about about the American engine. That's kind of neat. The modern age of technology. Our discussions could be really interesting if given the chance because my main interest is getting to the truth of the US and Canada. My only introduction really to Lincoln or FDR is through alternative media and you should be pleased that I realize the faultiness of a lot of it. I also realize the faultiness of main stream media. So here I am...can you give me a link to a specific paper or such that describes something you understand and find pertinent about them? It would be a good place to start this trek of understanding.

Teach me something...put up a link...all your points noted too. I however am not concerned that you as a US citizen(?) are on a Canadian forum. I imagine you are here to learn and socialize and make note of your own concern both about Canada and the US. Much like myself.

In the book I linked from Google books, these are some of the points I find interesting and wonder how it does if at all compare in some way to what is happening right now... Does this mean simply put, that being received at par is zero interest and that removing exchequer tallies is removing circulating currency medium thus revaluing whats left? I have to wonder if the hold back by the banks right now is simply market trends or is it a reset as per the situation in the first paragraph.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/russia-slams-u-s-deployment-of-patriot-missiles-in-poland-1.292353 http://www.economist.com/node/15891381 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_missile_defense_complex_in_Poland http://news.sympatico.cbc.ca/World/ContentPosting?feedname=CBC-WORLD-V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=poland-missile-defence Hi Bush_Cheney, here are some links for the Polish story....

I can correct myself over one thing....the bank did not have reserve at the time I was referring to with the notes being the equivalent of silver. Gold came later and so did reserves....

Hi, I wouldn't say knee jerk opinion. The articles regarding this have been on my msn page for a few days. Do you read the news from your internet? As for being concerned about this, I think it is a valid concern. Russia and the US say this is a separate issue and are getting along on other issues and this shouldn't interfere with them (whatever those are) but Russia does say it will look at this a possible act of aggression. Not good. There are a lot of people who are just tired of being at war. Go to the polish forum boards and see what the Polish people think and feel about this. I did. They are a sad people lately. I would not want to see trade sanctions against the US unless deserved, I don't know if China actually did a few years ago but it is a story floating around conspiracy boards and it would of been over this so-called lien China has over the US. By the way, as far as my feeling for the US. Of course I am a little angry about the stock/bank fraud rampant there, anyone who has lost money and even some who didn't have sore feelings for the US for letting this happen and being so implicit in it. Do I think the US is awful because of this, no. Am I tired of wondering who is going is going to bomb the US and as a result rearrange my life? YES! And let me be specific, it would not be the US itself or the general public themselves, my feelings are directed at the US government past and present. I can also get a good head of steam over the Patriot Act and more indecencies the US government is trying to put over on its people. This makes me very angry and I must also say that it makes me not want to live there. I think it very important that there is a big difference between the US potential for greatness and the potential of its government. Its potential lies in its people, they are not the source of my being upset with the US. I am sad about it, Bush et al really did a number on the US people and her sovereignty, they should all go to jail forever. With Obama, I kind of sit on the fence. There is no way to over-estimate the mess the man got handed when he took the seat. There are some things he has done that are just way out to lunch and I just have to wonder. Like not removing the Patriot Act. I don't know how knowledgeable you are of the global settlements going on around the world. Well, Obama is stalling for some reason, this is my personal experience, as I've mentioned before my involvement with CMKM. The mess down there is huge! I feel sorry for the mess he inherited. I still have hope, not necessarily faith, that he will be effective at righting the wrong and carrying the US forward. US people have cause for concern over the stimulus money he is spending and have huge concerns about this debt repayment. I don't blame them. Hence my interest in ZIRP, I would like to be able to feel some sort of confidence for the US people and I am hoping to find good news as I learn what zirping really means. Read my next post.... The US people have been through so much!!!! Too much!!!!!

Hi, ok I can agree with this and thank-you for expanding my understanding of this situation. I had not thought of what created the middle class and how it affected this situation. Makes sense what you say about it. Basically it all boils down to standard of living be it monetary standard or personal freedom standard or religious standard. I wonder if general abstinence was also a part of the reason for Puritans to have smaller families. I have to wonder if in part Harper's stance on abortion has to do with the declining population issues. IMO if it is, it would be a very poor example of a remedy. No better than a religious reasoning for being anti-abortion. What a crazy world eh?

I most definitely feel the same way as you regarding this issue. This to me this is the biggest underlying reason for population declines in developed nations and even though I am all for progression to have every person capable of holding a job actually working is a pipe dream. We don't consume now everything that is produced. 2 separate issues but they do overlap. A better landscape in my mind includes one parent at home and one working.

Well said Teddy!!! Good point, good question.

I agree with you Wyly.

Hi, I had wondered really about whether or not fractional reserve was happening then. According to this book and my understanding of fractional reserve, which is sketchy at best hence the desire for conversation so I can learn, I had understood it to mean that notes had a set value for its counterpart in gold and the amounts of notes for offer from the bank was related to the amount of gold that was lent to the government at the time. There were other bank instruments yes based on bank reserves (assets?) that also paved the way for circulating medium that was regarded according to this book as acceptable forms of currency but I was just referring to the notes at that particular time, a very small window to the whole. Got to start somewhere right? Would you explain what you mean by fractional reserve being used then? I know what you mean I think by the question mark at the end of the capital statement...I'll post the corresponding paragraph. I am in no means endorsing or even fully understanding yet what this guy trying to accomplish with his book but he does go to a lot of trouble to redefine the view of circulating medium and capital. For me it is a wealth of opinion and knowledge. I'll look up Lew Rockwell, do I sound like a libertarian? I haven't defined myself yet, the quiz posted here somewhere puts me dead center left on the libertarian bottom of the graph. I'm not overly negative about the US, more worried than anything regarding them financially at any rate. To be honest, it is intrigue and interest that spur on my focus where the US is concerned. I am a little sick to death about the war mongering though but they are by far not the biggest concern on this front. What do you see when you consider my motivations for joining MLF and what were yours?

I don't have the discipline to be an artist but being creative does help ebb my emotional tide when dealing with harshness of any kind. Just a big hearted person. I've been really enjoying that book I linked. I am amazed at the parallels between then and now. There is a few things I would like to share out of it so likely tonight or tomorrow I'll post some excerpts from it and show some of the parallels. It is going to be more than 40 degrees with high humidity here today and I tend to wither in this weather. Like for instance just off the top off my head....in the 1600s the government in England used all the coinage to do business outside their country themselves and had the bank print paper notes for the constituents to use and so the trouble began....could of started earlier, probably did but this is my earliest reference to date of the problems with the price of gold and the inflation of paper notes. Interesting to note the government kept running out of gold and taking loans from the bank to cover their costs then giving the bank the opportunity to print those notes to the same amount. Even without fractional reserve they had the same problems as us. Interesting to note that the interest/discount was 20% back then. Wow! I wonder what the interest now is when added up across the fractional board? More later with references too. They zirped back then and I want show what they did and how it worked. This book explains it well. I am sad to say though that book begins with a hefty theory as to why capital is debt and equals profit and how derivatives are wonderful. The intricacies of defining currency/money. As for current issues that are forefront and center on my mind...how about Poland? The plane crash still sends shivers down my spine. Now they are accepting without trepidation this missile base the US wants to build there. I suppose they think the US can save them from Russia? Good luck. If the US struck out at Russia the world would annihilate the US, the world is so tired of the US. They had better be being honest about their focus on Iran, there is not a great history of honesty unfortunately. I'm looking for Harper's opinion about this when I find a good article I'll post it. I prefer trade sanctions and such to deal with countries like Iran. I had read awhile ago that in 2008 (?) China had put trade sanctions into effect regarding the US and it told of how US ships were having problems all over the globe at getting into port. I have not substantiated this but I did file away for future reference a curiosity about how effective trade sanctions really are. After I get the big picture about Zirp this could be the next venue of interest and exploration. I ended up here on MLF because I realized how out of touch and behind I was politically when I thought first about a political science campus. I don't need to be a professor to build the concept but I definitely needed to take a good look outside my window if you get my drift. So, well, here I am and I want to say thanks to everyone here even the grumpy ones. You had mentioned the importance of debate and once again I agree and find this place a wealth of understanding of the world from the public point of view as opposed to just the various medias.

Nothing wrong with dreaming mate. My backyard...too small to contain my dreams or aspirations let alone anyone else's. In my early 20s I helped to create a concept to help feed the needy called 'Feedback Canada'. It did well for quite a few years. I left after the first year to pursue other things. In my late 20s/early 30s I worked on a very sustainable logging concept, this one I stayed around for a few years longer it was very interesting. Lately, for the last few years I have been working on a project that involves multiple campuses some here in Canada, Scotland and the US. I am usually only involved in developing the concept, I don't have much to do with implementing them. To include a campus of my own interest is not such a far cry from what I do for a living. Kind of fun really. Any venue that would allow for the education of politically headed individuals which made use of a curriculum geared toward the future we all need and want would be a good contribution. I can agree with your opinion about the role of government. I too have long thought the far reaching hand of legislation creeping into the everyday lives of the average citizen far too encompassing. I find the general desire to have our politicians or a law to save us from everything disconcerting to say the least and in part some of their power. For all of us who do not want the intervention there sure is a lot of those who do. It is a hard road to backtrack to retract stupid laws and policies and I firmly believe an ounce of prevention could go along way in politics. An ounce or maybe 2 developed in think tanks geared specifically for this task. The future is mold-able and I really think the education of the people who will make far reaching decisions at this stage needs some fresh input. How would you make a difference? Staying current and voicing an opinion is an important part of change true, but there is so much more...I am usually too shy to express myself to often. I admire the gusto with which most people here manage. I am quite happy to watch and listen.

This is true. I have read 2 lengthy biographies of Hitler. A little bit about the fall of the Soviet Union...lots about the Highland clearances and Scotland in general within the 1600s to the 1800s. What I tend to do is concentrate specifically on history that would support a current situation that has captured my interest. It tends to be a very focused course of study. There is more than enough current horror to deal with. This is my motivation to understand the laws/legislations/directions of global leaders. I feel as you do about the one world government/ruler. Most people do I think. Yes, yes I do see the relevance and impact of said discussions. I tend to look at most scenarios as ones that have taken effect in 100 years or more. I do look at the current mentalities and wonder where it/they will take us in the not so far away future. It is a dream of mine to build a political science campus...to discuss and shape the effect the you mention here. My interest does not stem from a great and worthy knowledge of politics but from the understanding of how important the quality of politicians we let loose on this world is. I would like to contribute by creating the space for such growth to happen.

Yes, there are more than just a few issues that make for good conversation. Depletion of renewable resources...I have spent the last 3 years developing a campus for alternative energy technology, actually any budding concept for environmental technological change. An R&D facility... Overpopulation is interesting, there seems to be quite a lot of controversy with this topic. Fundamental controversy regarding if there is an overpopulation issue. I watched a very interesting video that depicted the possibility of the Muslim people overshadowing the Caucasian people in less than 100 years. I can link it for you... I don't have an opinion myself where this is concerned. My main worry is about the consumption rate of the people on earth. At current rates, no we could not support a much larger population. With stats that show almost irreversible population decline within most white races, when I do think about this, I wonder about such things as: what will happen to cultures that we as white people hold dear. I envision what a world would look like with only little pockets of white skins on a globe dominated by others. I don't necessarily view it as a bad thing as much as perhaps just an inevitable thing and it makes me want to pay extra attention to how white peoples culture is recorded. I consider the value of recorded history (contrary to my remarks on the socialist/fascist board as this part of history greatly saddens me so I avoid most topics in which major atrocities must be dealt with, I get lost in the emotions that well up in me and usually end up needing to be creative and expressive and thus fail to finish absorbing the piece of history I was trying to learn, I'm much more balanced with less emotionally tied issues) as perhaps a most important subject. Euthanasia...for me this is one of those things that should be a personal decision made at the appropriate time in an individuals life. I'm a live and let live kind of person. The same said for gay rights and such. As long as the said person is not putting anyone in danger outside of themselves or another consenting individual, have at it, life is too short.

Uranium, potash...diamonds and for Shore...gold.

Giggle If you are a fanatic you are a nice one...giggle again. I think the NESARA people are fanatics somehow I don't think you fit the bill. This is an example of an Accord. There are different kinds, some are international and some national. The US reform bill should also show some of this work. http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/NEWS/0,,contentMDK:22535805~pagePK:64257043~piPK:437376~theSitePK:4607,00.html I am beginning to understand a bit more about ZIRP and I think you might be hitting the nail on the head in scrutinizing why the banks are not putting cash out for circulation. I do understand a bit about the fact that the low interest coupled with the premium associated with the higher risk in public loan/versus government very low if not negative interest coupled with the lower premium puts banks in a position to favor government loans as the profits are guaranteed even if less in volume. This is creating a situation where the currency for circulation is being concentrated and not released. Perhaps though, this is just a developing thought...in terms of a reset to either/both an asset backed currency/global currency. Any concentration of fiat debt/currency in circulation would make a big difference in the transition to this asset backed system. Perhaps the banks can not let loose until the reserves are revalued. Where would you start a process of this nature? Any opinions are welcome...

This is true, very well said. Policy is what should be studied to really understand what is going on out there on the global front. While it can be important to try and look at any situation through many eyes and opinions, the depictions of motivations and scenarios must be grounded in reality or just viewed as opinions.

I have to agree with you and Michael, no conspiracy. There is 2 different stories going around about them. One involves them being the faction to keep fiat and devastating interest going while the other paints them as being the faction that is pushing for an asset backed system. I wonder which one if either it is. As for the New World Order (Kennedy/Regan/Bush) have spoken of or the New World Agenda that Chretien spoke of...ok sure. Global trade agreements, standards of living and global currency agreements do not equal the dissolving of Canada, the US or any other country, this just signifies global co-operation and unified global standards. Yes, from a financial point of view sovereignty is taking a big hit and under the terms of loan default and/or bankruptcy/global fraud some people are saying we (not us per say) are losing our sovereignty but if you take a good look, regardless of this creditor option to dissolve said sovereignty, it is not happening. Anywhere. One other conspiracy story that fits in with these ones we are talking about here is the one that carries the theme of a global debt reset. Mmmm this is quite a concept. Not one I can readily see with Greece being what it is and Italy looming on the horizon, forget about Spain and Ireland or any others really, Italy could be the mother of all bankruptcies. Instinctively I look at the bankruptcies as a tool for the removal of fiat, a tool that is threatening to break the back of the fiat monster.

In the face of the war of so many struggling countries going through the birthing of the continually evolving democratic mentality/reality, I see but can hardly watch the overwhelming at times odds between the opposites. At the hands of original intent - lost in creative, lucrative, dark motivations - lies all the potential that could remain long after the twisted interpretations, manifestations of artsy greed, get realized for what they are. In the footsteps left to follow, the trail however curvy and steep, we'll find the direction to walk one thousand years or more. The map written in the consciousness and heart of every man, woman and child forever born from that point on. Lest we never forget and lose our way!

http://article.wn.com/view/2010/06/13/BP_Gulf_oil_spill_Website_updates_public_on_daily_poison_exp/ This is the only reasonably unquestionable website I've found so far that discusses this issue.

I wonder if this might be a part of the reason for not allowing the aid offered? I have not legitimized this yet but it is interesting, a sad interesting...there is another article about this but the link is dead. I'll keep looking. 8.Black Oil leaking into the water is not the greatest danger in the catastrophe.While the oil does cause damage to water,beaches,and wildlife, there are far greater dangers being hid from the residents of the Gulf Coast . The EPA had a crew do some testing at the site and "volatile organic compounds"have been found to have become airborne and reached some of the Gulf http://camrhon.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=safe&action=display&thread=6561 Coastal population areas. Please note the following: Hydrogen Sulfide.acceptable safe levels allowed are 5 to 10 parts per billion.The EPA found 1,200 parts per billion. Benzine.Acceptable is 0 to 4 ppb. The EPA found 3,000 ppb. Methylene Chloride is 61 ppb.The EPA found 3,000 to 3,400 ppb.