Yesterday

http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/2009/awglca7/eng/12.pdf This is only 4 pages though and what I have is 181 or more pages...

It does have a production based dividend collected across developed nations for use as high interest credit for un-developed nations. Like the social credit theory dividend (sort of). I would like to know if you thought the same thing. Thank-you for trying to get a copy and read it.

Title "United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change" Ad hoc working group on long-term co-operative action under the convention, 15 September 2009. I've been on the UN website looking for this but just briefly. I'll look again.

Hi Michael, it is not put on. I really have never had the chance to talk about anything I've posted with anyone. This is my first go. No, I am not a conspiracy theory girl. Everything, every policy and proposal being tabled right now around the world regarding the global future are right in front of our eyes. No conspiracy, it is just complicated, obfuscated and massive in volume. I am working hard at covering the whole forum but it really takes time I don't mean to be redundant. I went looking for the link I used to get the FCCC document and surprise, surprise, its gone. I do however have it in pdf form, it's rather large over 180 pages. Other than emailing it I don't know how to get it to you. It is hard to get to the truth of things and I do value the chance to get so many opinions and research. There are things in this document that kind of make me wonder, along the lines of that chapter 11 referred to in the CETA thread. I would be happy to have the opportunity to get down and dirty with some other people over this paper to see what it really means. Perhaps in the understanding of this and its sister ( eg., European Counsel on Climate) proposals could help to determine what to believe overall. Swaying the masses, well, you have to admit that government/banking/investment transparency leaves a lot to be desired and the motives behind this are not likely too angelic. But really, for me I just want to understand each of the links I've posted to their fullest because socialist or communist, conspiracy or just simple reality, I want to understand the policies that are going to shape our world. I love strategy, none of the decisions on the world table regarding the climate, industrial growth and finances are short term concepts and I have so much to learn. I am glad for your latest post.

To be honest with you the media controversy has no interest to me. Regardless of what is being said, the words in this and other global proposals read the way they read. The media is no help, not really. The real meat is in the policies that are getting built. I don't like to argue either, that's why I like to look at these proposals when I can find them. No supposition or conjecture. Just the layout of strategies that go along way to show motivation and long term realities. Some good, some not so good, eh? Giggle.

Hi Michael, it is not put on. I really have never had the chance to talk about anything I've posted with anyone. This is my first go. No, I am not a conspiracy theory girl. Everything, every policy and proposal being tabled right now around the world regarding the global future are right in front of our eyes. No conspiracy, it is just complicated, obfuscated and massive in volume. I am working hard at covering the whole forum but it really takes time I don't mean to be redundant. I went looking for the link I used to get the FCCC document and surprise, surprise, its gone. I do however have it in pdf form, it's rather large over 180 pages. Other than emailing it I don't know how to get it to you. It is hard to get to the truth of things and I do value the chance to get so many opinions and research. There are things in this document that kind of make me wonder, along the lines of that chapter 11 referred to in the CETA thread. I would be happy to have the opportunity to get down and dirty with some other people over this paper to see what it really means. Perhaps in the understanding of this and its sister ( eg., European Counsel on Climate) proposals could help to determine what to believe overall. Swaying the masses, well, you have to admit that government/banking/investment transparency leaves a lot to be desired and the motives behind this are not likely too angelic. But really, for me I just want to understand each of the links I've posted to their fullest because socialist or communist, conspiracy or just simple reality, I want to understand the policies that are going to shape our world. I love strategy, none of the decisions on the world table regarding the climate, industrial growth and finances are short term concepts and I have so much to learn. I am glad for your latest post.

The link that I used many months ago is defunct. Did not realize myself that this was so. Thanks to Waldo's pointing this out to me. If anyone does want to read this pm me and I will send you a copy via email. Jeez Jbg I was just reading the climate gate thread...should I feel hunted? Giggle

I thought you gave up me yesterday, pretty nasty way to ask for a link. Let me see what I can do the copy I have is 181 pages and a pdf, I'll look for a link.

Teeheee....MLW security tried to take my microphone too. I am not a fear monger but instead of discussing who is a socialist or communist I prefer to discuss policy and the reasoning about it. Good video. I debunk conspiracy theory but I can see the political push for non-transparency and conspiracy people are working hard to make the world realise how the shift of power is being removed from your vote. This is true. I've put a few things on this forum worth talking about like the FCCC, Global settlements, World bank vs ZIRP, future projections on Canada's dollar, CETA. I'm a policy debator, nothing more. I think everyone is smart enough to understand them and we should be discussing these.

Ok, I quess the 2 references I have made to date the FCCC and the freezing of the English Channel aren't true. Are you looking for a fight? I was looking for a discussion. What grandiose claims have I made? Don't bother filling me in, I can read my posts even if you can't. Sorry for you I quess if this topic in not your particular flavour but you can always bugger off. And it is a beauty in my mind, a whopping cost of a beauty that is misrepresented, mis-understood. I was hoping for a logical debate over the actual validity of all aspects of this situation, chose here to start off the debate.

Sorry about the repeat message, I'll try again

Your words not mine. Did you know that in the mid 1600s the English Channel and the North Sea froze up every winter for about a hundred years(just one example and I could post actual links to more). It was a weather anomaly, one of many different types that happen regularly all over the world. Just one reality of the strangeness of this world. I do not say that global emissions will not play havoc with our environment in the long run but the extent and urgency seems only to apply in media not in global mandates for pollution reduction and control. Why? Why would the government snowball us with fear and create hundreds of new taxes over nothing? Jeez, it's not like they've ever done this before. Dis-information/misrepresentation would have nothing to do with it. Heck, the war on Iraq is justified for pete's sake too. I don't know what I was thinking. Giggle...come on Michael you know as well as I know the realities of just about everything we are told, believe less than a quarter of what you hear and even less than that of what you see. You are a very articulate writer when you want to be, I enjoy most of your posts, put some meat on the table for us to really lick our chops over. My contribution to this pot-luck dinner is the FCCC, what are you bringing. PS This is not the first time in history that temperatures have climbed but it is the first time ever pollution has been the reason. Could it be that the effect of pollution might actually be minimal in regards to greenhouse gasses and that perhaps some of this might be due to the fact that we are in a phase of abnormally high radioactivity from our sun which is playing havoc with everything from temperatures around the world to satellite performance? My point is...fear sways the masses regardless of validity and most taxes have been legislated because of fear based acceptance.

Jumping in a little late again but here it is anyway... IMO the global warming craze for the most part is an agenda to help gain popularity for the global production tax hinted at in the Federal Counsel on Climate Change. Underlying long term issues of continued pollution are very real but not exactly in the way this platform suggests. Big pictures shows very little interest in reducing pollution across developed nations but aims to seriously inhibit undeveloped countries from following the same path to industrialization as its developed counterparts using infrastructure loans as bait (of course at astronomical interest figures of 35% amongst other ridiculous amounts), the funds for these loans of course collected from the various production taxes already collected across the developed nations and the many more on the round table being discussed. This combined with the growing scientific evidence of the fact that most of what we are experiencing today has happened many times before with absolutely no connection to pollution. Agenda, agenda, agenda.

Hi Jack, I'm jumping in a little late but sometimes as I read through the old posts to learn... The first situation that comes to mind when reading this last part is Poland. I went onto Polish forum boards with the translater function to see what the people where saying about the reason for the plane crash. The most common attributes were 1. Not wanting further involvement with the IMF or the EU 2. For some reason the Flu shot...? They were gearing up to stand off against the corporatist state. I am horrified at the result.

Hi, this article will give you an idea of where I am coming from. You might be surprised at what China is saying... http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/4101 Look at the shananigans since the 80s over the Sask. mineral fields. This story would really give you a good idea of who's who in the ownership of the largest inland mineral field currently known on earth. ( not my quote) The portfolio of owner's/operators is quite diverse.

This article discusses Canada's position as quoted by the IMF in regards to deficit ratio of GDP by 2014. Could give you an idea of a projected strength of our dollar in the next few years. http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/4561

Yup I agree, the process of dialog (ranting counts) in all forms from its simplest beginning to it's most complicated thousandth layer could be one of the most valuable tools period. As well as the equally sought after ability to listen.

This is a police state story. I feel very upset for your brother and the kids. My friends mother was struck by a car a couple of days ago while walking in a mall parking lot. She is 73. She is well bruised in the ribs and hips but no broken bones. Turns out that the lady who hit her is going to get off scott free. The police won't charge her because it was on private property, the woman's insurance isn't responsible for any payout and the mother had to hire a lawyer to fight her rights with her own insurance company. What is this world coming too? I am truly upset about the lack of justice for her too.

I think he was talking about competition? A trait of human nature that must be exercised by all in some way shape or form. Sports are not for everyone. Couple competition with intelligence and watch the games begin.

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidy...teeheee

Perhaps this... Debate: Open markets, a Global Crisis Debate Posted by: Michael Pomerleano (The World Bank ), 16 October 2009 Register or login to join this Debate Print Email By Andrew Sheng and Michael Pomerleano The national authorities and the international community should be commended for the speed of action taken to stop the spread of the financial crisis. To protect the financial system from the deflation in asset bubbles, the public sector has essentially guaranteed all deposits, rescued systemically important institutions, made large liquidity injections and brought interest rates to zero or near zero under a zero interest rate policy. Almost all systemically important central banks entered into ZIRP under emergency conditions at the same time. But the polices adopted to combat the crisis are creating their own problems. In the medium term, the treatment may be as expensive as the crisis. The “shadow” set of liabilities - the guarantees put up around financial systems a year ago, the quantitative easing without adequate collateral, and zero interest rates - are popular because they are the path of least resistance for policymakers forced into emergency action. The measures receive less legislative scrutiny than fiscal action and do not appear to entail immediate cost. What they have done is postpone costs. ZIRP poses global risks in an interconnected economic world by essentially replicating Japan’s liquidity trap globally. In the aftermath of the 1990s asset bubble, Japanese fiscal deficits eventually led to a large public debt bubble more than twice the size of GDP. First, the rescue plans guarantee and replace private losses and debt with public losses and debt. There has been a large transfer of risks from private balance sheets to the sovereign balance sheet, including central bank balance sheets. As a result, the line between monetary policy and fiscal policy has been blurred, since central bank “investor of last resort” action is quasi-fiscal action. Such transfers are fiscally sustainable only with ZIRP, because increases in interest rates would incur a huge servicing burden. With the deadweight rescue costs of the financial crisis increasing, the room for much-needed fiscal action on social spending and infrastructure reform has shrunk dramatically. Yet politicians will not permit higher rates to crowd out fiscal expenditures on education, health, and infrastructure, making the exit from ZIRP problematic. Witness Japan’s zero deposit rates 20 years after the crisis. With a debt-to-GDP ratio of more than 200 per cent, raising interest rates would prompt a fiscal crisis, massive capital inflows, and further deflation. Second, the Japanese yen carry trades will now be amplified globally. Low interest rates will lead to a search for yield, and risks will again be mispriced as investors arbitrage any rate and price differential with larger and larger leverage. ZIRP is essentially a fixed interest rate policy, because the nominal interest rate cannot be lowered below zero. Hence, volatility will surface in other asset prices and in large leveraged capital flows. ZIRP will encourage a regime of short-term reckless trading, higher volatility in financial markets, and less appetite for long-term investments because private investors will fear the funding maturity mismatch if interest rates rise. The public sector then has to bear the long-term investment risks, leading to crowding out and more resource allocation distortions. Third, the ZIRP strategy of the leading central banks holds the entire world hostage to low interest rates. Chinese central bank governor Zhou Xiaochuan has articulated clearly what is called the “Triffin dilemma”. When a national currency is used an international reserve currency, the monetary authority issuing such a currency has the additional burden of having to address the consequences of monetary policy for other countries. Just as the US hike in interest rates to combat inflation during the Volcker era of the early 1980s led to large outward capital flows from Latin America, creating the “lost decade” there, the entire world will have to follow the lead of the US in interest rates. How can any nation raise interest rates when vast sums of fiat paper dollars are ready to pounce on any carry trade opportunities that arise? The exit strategy for numerous countries has to be through collective action, even if domestic conditions in emerging markets with faster growth mandate higher rates. Finally, ZIRP arises from an overuse of monetary policy, when the cure lies in real sector action, namely fiscal policy. If the underlying problem is excess consumption funded by excess leverage, then deleveraging of the real economy is inevitable and throwing debt, guarantees, and quantitative easing at the global problem of insolvency will not succeed. It might slow the speed of adjustment, but it will be detrimental to reaching a new sustainable equilibrium. Despite the interventions, the profitability of the financial system will continue to be challenged by lower real sector profits, problems of de-leveraging, massive excess capacity, and risks. In sum, reliance on ZIRP, quantitative easing, and guarantees provided policy makers around the world with “soft options”. They are not yet willing to meet the hard budget constraint of paying for losses now and avoiding further distortions. If we don’t change the incentives through fiscal measures and enforcement, the problems will not just be repeated, they will be worsened. We have to bite the bullet of real sector adjustment. What are the prospects of exiting ZIRP? The Fed has recognised the need to exit ZIRP. In a recent speech, Kevin Warsh, governor of the Federal Reserve System said: “In my view, if policymakers insist on waiting until the level of real activity has plainly and substantially returned to normal - and the economy has returned to self-sustaining trend growth - they will almost certainly have waited too long. A complication is the large volume of banking system reserves created by the non-traditional policy responses. There is a risk, of much debated magnitude, that the unusually high level of reserves, along with substantial liquid assets of the banking system, could fuel an unanticipated, excessive surge in lending.” We got into the current crisis because national policies have externalities that do not add up to a collective global good. The world needs to exit ZIRP together, because first movers are likely to pay higher costs in terms of large capital flows. This reinforces the ZIRP liquidity trap. The G20 setting offers an excellent opportunity to collaborate on exiting ZIRP together. Andrew Sheng is a former chairman of the Securities and Futures Commission, Hong Kong and author of book From Asian to Global Financial Crisis. Michael Pomerleano has worked at the Bank of International Settlements and at the Bank of Israel.

Hi, Ive been buggin people out on the forum elsewhere about all these things you are talking about...thank-you for this thread. More later....

It can be hard to separate the realities that provide the cause for the men and women who are fighting and dying in war from the reality that men and women are fighting and dying in war. Any disrespect needs to be carefully aimed at the cause of this mess, never at the result which is men and women fighting and dying in war.