Bakunin

eureka, thats why we need a confederation. Because a federation will never work.Wheiter its imposed and quebec separate or wheither its a symbolic federalism that doesn't mean anything. Quebec vote bloc, ontario vote liberal, the west vote conservative. Why shouldn't we be allowed to get our respective government ? A federal government is useless, lets let the province deal with each other's as equal entity and trust me evry province will be happy.

Just for fun , here is what canada day look like in quebec lol... i just want to note that those people are hard sovreignist, the green white and red flag is the patriot flag wich is mostly used by the mlnq, a group of hard sovreignist ->"psychopath". they are waiting the parade. http://www.librepresse.com/fete001.jpg http://www.librepresse.com/fete007.jpg

Some province have less money, some have less needs in some way, if we want a federal healthcare then its a major system change and a common vision of each province but for now, the federal does not own any hospital they dont own the hospital and don't administrate it, The hospital are administrated by the province and the majority of the money come from the province not the federal so we can't force people. I don't like the idea of the same system coast to coast, i don't like the system currently in place too. Often it look like 1 system make us save money but don't agree, in canada making 1 system for all often mean 1 costly complex system that doesn't work well. If the health care doesn't work anymore its because the system cost too much than we can afford. I think we badly need flexibility, we can't have back the healthcare system we had 10-20 year ago because we need to stop having deficit like we had 10-20 years ago... We just need to be more flexible and open be more open minded to the possible solution we have for the futurs, the federal act irresponsibly if he want to force the province to stay with the current system wich they can't afford without having deficit. I agree with you if you have incompetent politician in your province then its not a good idea but in quebec the best politician are in the provincial scene, our provincial government are competent and we don'T want the federal one wich is less competent to dictate us what to do. Even the federalist in quebec like charest don't want a federal dictature.

The special deal was the federal not jumping over quebec juridiction. I agree and disagree with the deal, first, i think its stupid to call this a "special deal because quebec is special" because what is special about us is our culture and language not our healthcare, but on the other hand, healthcare is a provincial juridiction so the federal has no power on that except the power of money that they shouldn't have. the stupidity in the first place is the federal asking the province to decide how they make there budget. But i guess its because other province were not enough combative against the federal idea of taking over province juridiction, i guess they could have the same deal if they fight for it. Some here on this forum think the federal has to force province to use this money on healthcare, i disagree with that, first healthcare is really important and if the federal doesn't give the money, then its the province that compensate by cutting in other sector, well thats what our premier made... he cutted in all sector and gave more in healthcare without waiting any federal money, so if the federal give money, its normal to take it to help other sector that were cutted because of healthcare... the province had to run healthcare even before the deal so wheiter we where doing a deficit or we where cutting other sector.. Anyway its a provincial juridiction....

I agree but i looked in encyclopedia and they say that if it was called a confederation while the bna act and what canada became looks more like a federation, it was a ruse to calm down the population and politician who didn't wanted a federation. I just tought i would share this information but its being contested, why ? Is it that hard to imagine a politician using ruse ? I have some question i would like to know which has nothing to do with the question, Before world war 1 and 2 was the federal government taxing its citizen ? What kind of taxes and at what rate? What was the role of the federal government and was it jumping over provincial juridiction ? I think we have to be rationnal, if we see oils, fish, aluminium and etc.. as ressources, then evry province's as ressources, some worth more some worth less but at the end evry provinces as its ressources. I think it must be provinces that deal with other province to get the ressources they want and to have some kind of equality and especially when we talk about ressources that may be expired in 30-40 years. There is 2 way to deal this out, wheiter the federal(at 55% ontarian) force provinces to give their ressources or we let the province make their own deal like equal society.

C'est parce que généralement on utilise le mot confédération pour parler d'une association d'état ou de nation souveraine qui normalement ne serait pas a la merci du gouvernement fédéral. Les 13 colonies de la nouvelle angleterre état une confédération. n'importe quel dictionnaire qu'il soit anglais ou français vous donnera cette définition et la définition était la même dans les année 1800. je vais répondre au reste de ton message plus tard je manque de temps :/

what would be great is a only canadian tournament while the strike is going on. Each province big enough get his team and we play a little televised tournament that would be nice.

There can't be no hockey, the canadian unity is based on hockey, If there is no hockey, the country will break up, violence and murder will go up and the whole beer industry will go bankrupt. If there is no hockey, the 3rd world war is inevitable....

The funiest thing is that the canada day is the day apartment bail expire evrywhere in quebec so its a holiday where the quebecers are occupied moving there stuff from there old apartment to there new one...

No this is not true, the st jean batiste or what we call now our fête national, is financed by the quebec government and the cities who participate, The canada day, is financed by the federal only i think and the budget the federal give to quebec represent 70% of the canada day federal budget. the 70% goes for the Canada day in quebec, not quebec national day. Its similar to the sponsorship and flag stuff, its the federal propaganda to "promote" canada with money. But the funiest thing is that the canada day in quebec is problably the place where it celebrate the less... For sample, we celebrate quebec national day in my town but not canada day.

August1991 I agree with him. Confederation is better than Federation. America was a confederation too. Un mot a une définition et si le mot confédération a été choisi pour déterminer le canada. il était trompeur. c'est tout ce que je dit et évidement il n'y a pas un spécialiste qui va appeler le canada une confédération, donc c'est irréfutable que le canada n'est pas une confédération. Maintenant de la a savoir pourquoi le mot confédération a été utilisé, il parle d'une façons de "tromper" la population pour que le projet soit plus accepté parce que évidement les français ne voulais pas être dirigé par les anglais et les maritimes ne voulait pas être dirigé par le québec et l'ontario. Si je l'explique mal en anglais alors fait la traduction , sinon apporte moi de la documentation parce que je suis sur que tu n'était pas la en 1867 alors tu l'a lu et je veut m'assurer du sérieux de la chose genre si tu te documente dans de la documentation reconnus pour son objectivité ou si c'est dans la rédaction d'un étudiant qui a écris cela sans trop mettre de preuve ;P . Après tout si les encyclopédie ne disent pas la vériter alors je vais pouvoir les actionner et devenir riche . The Terrible Sweal I don't claim to know something that happend in 1867, thats why i cite document who claim to know what happenned, i think its more accurate. If you or anybody here have other document that proof its not true then fine we will try to find more documentation to compare but hey im not an historian i don't know what really hapenned and if your not an historian then i doubt you know too.... Its really easy to claim that we really know what happend hundred of years ago, you just have to persuade your brain but if you want to be accurate you use document, thats what i do. I put the link for general use, but if you want the text with my citation you can find it on there site if you do a research on the canadian confederation. You can also go look in the encarta encyclopedia if you have one, they say about the same thing. In fact i was quite surprised when i read it for the first time so i watched for other source and they where all saying the same thing.

The only thing im saying is that not evryone wanted a federation and misteriously Canada started as a confederation and became federation... This is a fact now i hope you agree on that. Then if you think canada must be a federation then its your point of vue and i don't care but as long as you agree the fact mentionned in official documentation. If you want to criticize my point of vue, your totally welcome but at least dont criticize it when i say fact like the post i did else its confusing.

Unlike you eureka, im not rewritting history to fit my personal vision of canada. Im basing myself on documentation because i wasn't there in 1867. We all know that Canada was called a confederation in 1867 and now we all know its a federation, if you don't know that then your totally insane. Here are some documentation taken in an english encyclopedia. Im just warning you in case you don't take the time to read and call those citation an a quebec nationalist propaganda ;P http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/ Now if you don't agree then at least show up some documentation that we can trust, and please don't cite me academic work , i don't consider that credible enough.

The founder where talking about a confederation and misteriously with the years, we are now a federation.

This doesn't change the fact that province are not equal because of the federal and its a little bit frightning to know that the party elected who decide when he want to break the equalities are ontarian at 55%, quebecers at 15%, maritime at ~ 15% and the west at ~ 15% where alberta has only 1,4%. A bit disproportionate don't you think ?

If the rest of canada get a deal for albertan oil then the rest of canada has to make fair deal to other canadian provinces and inevitably there will be winners and loosers. Thats why i think that if a province want a special oil deal then it must deal it with alberta. The federal government should not interfere. If all province where equal then we wouldn't need a federal government. Having a federal government open the doors to bigger province to take control of other provinces to force them to do what they want so weither we are equal or we loose our equality when the other province's group against you.

then why didn't you vote conservative.... we couldn't vote for the block. We didn't vote for the conservative because they have no team in quebec. When the conservative splitted, the bloc quebecois was created and when the conservative reunified, 1st they didnt reunified with the bloc so actually they don't have any true representation in quebec, no team no deputy, no publicity, no supporters, they have to restart from scratch and face the bloc wich gathers the most deputy then the liberal that can elect a cow under the liberal banner in some county. When i say there is no team, i mean i can'T even name 1 know conservative except maybe peter stasny because he was a well know hockey player. The tv publicity the conservative did in the 2004 campain where so much no budget style that it looked like a 1980 political publicity. So for the moment the bloc gathered left and right vote not taken by the liberal so it mean evrywhere in quebec except in the west of montreal wich is mostly english and some immigrant part of montreal. And Haper doesn't look quite friendly to quebec, but it may sound funny but you guys must understand that the quebecers knew that if they would massivly vote for the bloc, then the conservative had a real chance to win the election. They did vote massivly for the bloc.

listen takeanumber, don't blame quebecers for having the courage to fight against the federal, if your province does not, then its not our fault. In fact we are fighting against the same federal regime and its default, but sometime i wonder if you are not blind enough to see it.

Hydro-Quebec is owned by the quebec provincial government, it never received a dollars from the federal. Its one of the reason why we have a big provincial debt. Il name it for you: the Liberal party of Canada, with the help of Trudeau and Chretiens. And don't forget to mention a special thanks from Ontario to vote in mass for them.

I agree as long as they don't complain about public funded school in canada not giving them other choice than english and french.

It is a country but its not a natural society and this is a fact. Its composed of more than one society that sadly don't always fit. Its already like that, quebec do not fit the model, im just honest and I say it loud. The only thing i ask for is an honest canadian political system else ill vote for an independant country. Im just saying the sad truth. Its cruel i know and i would not fight for that but its the truth. Don't you agree that if you would have learn english at your birth and went to english school evrything would have been easyer ?

by that i asume your saying why french outside quebec and english in quebec, then yes they can survive learning the majority language but for moral and ethic of an artificial society we have gave them choice and now for the same reason we can't take it back. It was not a good idea but it was done and we have to live with it.

french and immigrant have 1 choice, the only one logical and the english community has the right to choose. here is a website in french where an immigrant explain the law and its history. http://www.immigrer-contact.com/bestof_tri.../qbc_pol_54.htm

This conversation is going nowhere. We all know that we will never have chinese or spanish or wathever other language school in canada wich is natural because first its way to complex to manage for a government, 2nd it needs resources like skilled professor with acces to new univesitary program to learn there job and those school need students, 3rd because we already have enough trouble to manage our deficit and pay our debt and its almost impossible to create a public structure enable to support that. The idea is totally uthopic, i never heard a country doing this. You want something not uthopic ? those people can learn national language wich are french and english just like any other citizen in the world do. Anyway they have to learn one of those language to get a job or just live in the society. If they want chinese course they just have to go to take private lessons just like any other citizen in the world or go to china. And one last thing, the people who criticize quebec for its law, at least say the truth, English citizen have acces to english school in fact they have high quality school. Mc Gill university wich is the most prestigious university of canada and concordia. The only one who can't acces english school are english family where the father and the mother didn't go to school wich is almost unthinkable or immigrant wich in almost any case has finish school else they would not be pick by immigration canada or there really young children. School are complexe public institution, i don't know if you know or if it work like this in other province but the whole program we get teach in school is planned by the government and ministerial exam are made by the government. The government is inevitably implicate in the education system so individual right end by having to choose between french and english school. I hope you undestand that at least, creating other language school is alot complex If a canadian student learn one of the national language school, its not lacking respect.

Economic Left/Right: -6.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.08