Bakunin

Most immigrant who come in canada don't even know that in quebec we speak french, then most of the immigrant in quebec immigrate in montreal. You may find this stupid but if they dont learn french they can't get job then they can't function in the society and they have a lot of trouble to adapt wich is bad for evryone. You should know that ! you had to learn english to function in ontario ? then if anyone want to learn a 2nd or a 3rd or a 4,5,6,7,8,9,10 languages its superbe and we already can at least in quebec we can i dont know in rest of canada.I went to English immersion program and it was quite interesting, my sisters learned spanish. You know, their is a study that proof that someone who learn more than one language has less chance to have alzeimer. I think that learning french if you live in quebec is just a mark of respect, then its because you don't have choice to integrate the society and to get a job.

immigrant must integrate the society, the society in quebec is french so they must learn french just like if i imigrate into the us, i will go to an english school, well its the same thing. We the french are already a minority in canada we wont work on becoming a minority in our own province, don't ask us to do that... I was talking about the system. Like road sign and evrything.

Im really flexible, i think that it is a complexe political issue and that it can be resolve in many way and i hope that canada and quebec and other society can work a winning-winning agreement but like i say im flexible, ill vote for sovreignty if there is no other way around. I support the law but i think it must be flexible. English quebecers are allowed to go to english school and i agree on that and immigrant must be teach french, i totally agree with that too... Unfortunatly there are always some rare troubling case from both side in canada but i think thats why we need flexible law. I agree except for Immigrants. As long as thei learn the basic of the majority language for respect and survival wich they do naturally. By the way i dont think a school weither its french or english Canada cost more money to administrate. At lest not a significant amount. The point is that if you are a french in ontario, you learn english even if you go to a french school so their is no need in ontario to become completly billingual like the dream of maplesyrup

We just have to look at russia and tchetchenia, we all know that there will be terrorist act and violence has long aas the russian keep refusing tchetchenia independance. There is no point for russia to continue fighting out there but blindness and hate. In quebec its similar about the political system. Its simply not working and we don't like it and wheiter people like it or not, we will have to change it one day, especially in a democracy. But the beauty of the thing is that it doesn't have to be a confrontation, We could all get our part of the pie and live happily ever after but for some reason specially because we don't know each others well enough, we will problably keep fighting untill the country break down.

What im saying is it was a mistake and now we can't do anything about it. Just take a look at a normal country like usa, mexico, the french the spanish etc.. are those country stuck with language problem ? no. We have a problem because canada is made out of different society and in between society. I talk about society because i dont want to use the word province because in many province their are 1 or more society. Its not a good idea because we can't fullfill their needs correctly. I talk about tolerance compromise and respect because i think we want evryone in our society to have equal right and feel at home but i think in a way we are blind when we think that we can form 1 society. We are way too much different.

Its a nice vision but its uthopic. You can't use 1 system for 2 nation without many compromise. What we must ask us is does it worth it so much ? wouldn't we apreciate more each others if we had our own system and then associate on winner-winner issue.

I agree with stoker and of course the dictionnary wich is always right since canada has free elections through a system of representation, it is a democracy. But the word "democracy" in the dictionnary and the word "democracy" used in the common language doesnt mean the same thing, it means more (equality, morality, freedom, not corrupt, the ideal society). I think what JWayne means when he say that Canada is not democractic is that it is not democratic in the common language we use.But it is Democratic, its just we don't use the correct definition for the word. I understand Stoker that you don't want to pay for french education but for x, y and z good and bad reason, some people decided to create an artificial society with 2 major natural society and a few more little one. 1 French and 1 English. Since it was a democracy, thei were so called equal in power. Then for x, y, and z bad and good reason they created 1 structure to maintain 2 society which is not common. In that structure the Majority of the democracy is different for each case. You complain because the east has the majority of the government, the french complain because the english has the majority of the government and etc... So for x, y and z good and bad reason Canada is an artificial society with weird laws to protect the minority of the french society who live in the english society and the minority of the english society who live in the french society, wich has a money cost and deregularize a society. Blind people won't understand that and will always be ready to fight for the minority of a democracy wich is quite normal since we all have heart and want to respect each others and want to be nice but technically, yes your right ! the Canadian system fail often to maintain 2 society or more in 1 artificial society. Sometime their are sensless law and sometime their are law we don't agree on but its part of the blindness of trudeau and chretiens vision of 1 canadian society wich we are stuck with....

You want the real answer ? the roc is learning french because quebec is part of canada. Its has stupid has that, if quebec wouldn't be part of canada, the 2nd most used language in canada would not be french and you would learn other language like the american do. The liberal since trudeau, specially the french one are a bunch of people that think that quebec and canada must be 1 entity, one society with the same way of thinking.

What difference do you make between integration and assimilation. Assimilation: as·sim·i·la·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-sm-lshn) n. The process whereby a minority group gradually adopts the customs and attitudes of the prevailing culture. Integration: in·te·gra·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt-grshn) n. The bringing of people of different racial or ethnic groups into unrestricted and equal association, as in society or an organization; desegregation. ------------------- I think assimilation is necessary to integrate the immigrant. Its neccesary to maintain cohesion in a society else their is no society. But the way to assimilate need to be respectfull. if you see integration as an respectfull assimilation then we agree. Now i just want to clarify one thing with the roc. In ontario the sign are in english in quebec thei are in french for the quebec company only, we needed a law for cohesion else how are we supposed to live? as a foreigner in our own society ? English people can go in english school if they want unless there parent has no education. is this respectfull ? yes it is.

the french settler founded the city of quebec in 1608, its the first canadian city, then the french devlopped themself just like the american but there where no "in between english but not american settler in quebec territory..... Quebecer was founded by french people and is a french society, only twisted mind want to try to explain that the english wich were fighting against the french all the time were in fact 1 society......... most of the english are in montreal, a french city. Open your eyes, assimilation is evrywhere, in fact where there is immigration there is assimilation. Its necessary if you want to make a country work well.

This is false. Quebec was a french colony and english people immigrate after 1760. They mostly immigrate in ghetto in montreal. I find quite amusing the fact that you are so frustrate about the assimilation of the english when we all know that Evrywhere else in canada except l'acadie, the french has been assimilate. An english person can go to english school if they want if there parent went to english school, i have english friend who went to both english and french system and they never had trouble with the government, in fact thei are still alive ! And they don't complaint, and you know what ? thei are sovregnist...

We can't ban parties, weither we are a democracy or we are a monocracy. Especially when people vote at high percentage like 49% for those party. Tell me why we souldnt be allowed to live in a democracy ? The funiest thing is after some people here tell me im brainwashed.... They call me xenopobe and anti-anglo...

I think the conservative need a progressive prime minister, they need to focus on ontario because if the conservative did not win it wasn't because the people wanted to elect the liberal, its because they where afraid of the conservative and harper failed to comfort them. But its hard to find a good leader these day...

there is a lot of quebecer that already consider themselve as a nation. i consider quebec as a nation. Officially we are not but quebec city is called the "national capital" and the 24th of june we celebrate the "fête national" the quebec provincial government is working at the "assemblée national" its our name for the provincial house of common. the major provincial party in quebec already agreed that quebec formed a nation, even the federalist party agreed. last june 24th, paul martin , jack layton and even stephen harper agreed that quebec formed a nation... but last years, the conservative and liberal voted against a motion to make it official :/. But i still think we are part of the canadian nation, but we (french) have difficulty sometime to see ourself has part of the canadian nation. Monarchy can be a sample of that. The english quebecers have less difficulty to see themselve part of the canadian nation. i don't really care if its not recognized as a nation officially but i think it should. In the 1990's some people wanted us to be call distinct society, well i call this a distinct nation, i think its more precise.

don't worry i don't get you wrong I think quebec already form its own nation , if your talking about forming its own country then, i would let them, i would work with them but im aslo considering to possibility to improve canada. I think there is a less painfull way to work the issue than separating. But i agree that the way i see thing is unlikly to happend, human being are often not enough smart to deal with such an emotional issue. Just like adult often can't deal separation of their couple.

I agree with you jay74 that quebec separation is not 2 system working together, thats why i think canada should improve its system to fit the reality because if its not done , then the only solution i see is quebec separation and i don't think quebec separation is the best solution for quebec and for canada. Im sorry if i didn't make myself enough clear :/ ill rewrite this part of my text: The only thing im always telling is that a country with 2 culture and 1 system for the 2 can't work in a democracy except by making lots of compromise that frustrate evryone so it would be easyer to make a more flexible system. a sample ? someone talk about sesonal worker on this forum. Quebecer want to change the way it work, so the quebec government should be able to make its own seasonal worker program and don't participate in the federal sesonal program. This way evryone is happy. Alberta don't want to participate in gun registry ? then they should be allowed to decide not to participate in this federal program. So this would be 2 system working together.

if north america is not a democracy then their is no democracy on earth... I disagree with him, i dont think great britain is the only democracy in the world. I consider great britain parliementary system a democracy but i totally disagree that monarchy is a democratic. Acually, for me its just a religious word for a dictatorship. Monarchy in canada is symbolic even if monarchy exist, it does not rule the country, so its a parliamentary system that we have. but here is some definition from the dictionnary wich explain it well: Democracy: Definition: [n] the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group [n] the political orientation of those who favor government by the people or by their elected representatives [n] a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them Dictatorship: Definition: [n] a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.) Monarchy: Definition: [n] an autocracy governed by a monarch who usually inherits the authority Republic: Definition: [n] a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them [n] a form of government whose head of state is not a monarch; "the head of state in a republic is usually a president" Parliamentary: Definition: [adj] having the supreme legislative power resting with a body of cabinet ministers chosen from and responsible to the legislature or parliament; "parliamentary government" [adj] in accord with rules and customs of a legislative or deliberative assembly; "parliamentary law" [adj] relating to or having the nature of a parliament; "parliamentary reform"; "a parliamentary body"

This is ridiculous, i never wrote anything bad about the roc while some people on this forum constantly talk about quebecers in bad. The only thing im always telling is that a country with 2 culture and 1 system can't work in a democracy except by making lots of compromise that frustrate evryone so it would be easyer to make a more flexible system. Yes,i know you told that to me the first time i posted, and i remember because it was so much funny... You remember the text i copy-paste from microsoft encarta, the english version problably made in usa, you told me it was nationalist propaganda.... Sincerly i can feel that you have prejudice against quebec. i don't think your xenophobe but you have prejudice and it affect your capacity to analyse a situation rationnaly. Revenge ? your the one complaining because i don't kiss roc feet because they failed to assimilate us... I never talk about revenge, actually when i post something its often by thinking what would be the best for roc and quebec, like when i talk about billingualism outside francophone region. I never talked about punishing canada while some people on this forum talk about punishing quebec for its nationalism all the time. They talk about partitioning quebec, banning quebec nationalist party, using army, isolate it econnomically etc... The funiest thing it that often those people are strong canadian nationalist... they talk about nationalism in bad while they are actually more nationalist than me... If you want to criticize me on something, please write proof because right now, its just not convincing.

i don't agree, in the most succesfull democracies, the system is only a factor among others. If we take the republic system, we can see a major difference between the dominican, or congo republic and the american or french republic... It depend on the kind of government, the society tolerance for corruption and etc... this doesnt mean it doesnt play a role but i don'T thing the fact of monarchy nostalgy is helping a parliament system being more democrate. In fact Monarchy is in no way democratic. On that i absolutly disagree with you. I am not going to feel infrerior to any society, race or nation. I live as a free man and if someone want to force me into something i have the right to fight back. I wont kiss english feet for their failure of our assimilation just like you dont kiss french feet because they didn't assimilate england or english territory when they conquered them. I am born a free man and im a democrate and i beleive in equality of human being. British monarchy is part of the english history, In french its a part of our history that is quite sad. Its more like an insult than a symbole. Its certainly not helping quebecers to be part of the canadian culture. Its just like if the french of france ad to have hitler's symbole on their money... or the iraq people having a bush face on their money. Its the kind of thing where we quebecers would like the rest of canada and quebec be 2 system, where we can interact and deal with each other case by case. More like an association than 1 centralised base because one base mean making compromise all the time, it cost money, time and it frustrate evryone.

I agree that its only a % of people that want to keep monarchism as a tradition, but its just one small sample of the way canada work. They call the country a bicultural country but they only care about there culture. I doubt we will ever get canadian money with a fleur de lys on it. i would like to see this I imagine them parading in quebec the june 24th.... with canadian flag and poster of the royal family it would be has much satifiying has when they putted jean charest speech the 24th...

Yes but 2-3 county where won by a small margin by the liberal but it depend on so much things that its hard to predict the impact with no details. If the bq would have a chance to govern or would put on ice the sovreignty project, depending on the mood and the support for the deal, i think they could get more than now but only if the people are pissed off by the liberal like last election. On many point they agree, we can just remember the debate where duccepe used the time between him and Layton to attack martin hehe , but its clear that its has changed a lot since Layton came because before, when the ndp voted for the clarity bill, they lost all their supporter in quebec... I agree their is a lot of question with no answer... And remember just before we got the election result a lot of people talked about a possible bloc-conservative alliance in the common chamber. I thinks its 1 good side about the bq, its they can adapt to any situation. their political ideologie is large and often really near of the quebecers general opinion.

What do you mean by deft ? i never heard this word before :/

Thei already have separatist in their own party.... its not like 1-2 separatist, i think its more like 85-95% of all their quebec members presenting for election if not more... Its really hard for them because the federalist always tend to vote liberal in quebec. Except when their really pissed off and when thei are, to the place of voting ndp or conservative, thei vote bloc...

I think we should form a real confederation, else the country will break up and we should force transparency in government because we can't trust them anymore with all those scandals. As for british monarchy, its clearly an english canadian things. Its not something we have in common. Yes i find it insulting but if some people want to identify with that i don't have any objection but the government shouldn't pay for that. Else we should get a special king governor and have the right to cut his head off the french way... For the senate, i think its useless. Wheither we elect them democratically, reorganise the way it work and what power they have or we abolish them.

This is something i find confusing about the ndp. Layton is building a complete new party and sometime its hard to know what is the real position of the ndp. For example they talk about an assymetrical federalism, but before layton it was more a centralised federalism. The old ndp voted for the clarity bill, but the new with layton say they want to take down the bill... Sometime i wonder if layton is the backbone and the only one with idea in his party and the members really agree with him or they don't care about its pollitical view has long has he can rebuild the party.