maple_leafs182

Obama won't be president in ten years, he has no say in the budget then...ten year plan, that is non sense. If you want to listen to some people who actually want to cut the debt and spending listen to both Ron and Rand Paul.

How does it divert chaos and what do you mean by not with funny money?

Are you saying that the market isn't demanding that technology that is why it is not being implemented?

Sounds like GM and Chrysler.

Fiat money along with fractional reserve banking are the tools that allow so much debt to be issued in the first place, they are responsible for the debt. Whatever programs or services that money was spent on is irrelevant. These banks and corporations usually see the money first so they get to use it when it is worth the most. The dollars used in the bailouts and stimulus are worth less now compared to when the banks and corporations originally had them. So yes the people get that money too but its worth less.

I look at it a little differently then you. I see the system as being responsible for our behaviour rather then our behaviour being responsible for the system.

I really wish we could be fair and just but there is no profit in that. As for the redistribution of wealth...what we have now is more like reverse socialism, the wealth isn't being redistributed amongst the people, it is being distributed to the banks and corporations. There is clearly a flaw in both our monetary and economic systems that are creating the parameters that lead to the problems we face. The monetary system has a big problem, fiat money along with Central and fractional reserve banking encourages countries to go into debt. Generations of debts and interest piling sky high putting the burden on future generations to pay off a debt they did not create. Then there is the inflationary side of fiat currencies...

I agree, that was a bold statement. I honestly don't have the proof to back up that argument. However if you look at the income growth of a CEO of a big corporation or bank, it has grown at a substantial rate compared to the Carpenter.

Fiat money can't work, the maths isn't there to support it. I understand how fiat currencies works, I don't hold on to mine. Wages never keep up with inflation.

I disagree.

I blame the cheap credit of the 1920's on the great depression. I also never said gold is perfect.

Fine, why were there charters not renewed...What did Andrew Jackson think about Central Banks? Really, I've seen more ads telling people to sell there gold. They are in my books. "That paper money has some advantages is admitted. But that its abuses also are inevitable and, by breaking up the measure of value, makes a lottery of all private property, cannot be denied. --Thomas Jefferson

I think if we legalize competition and weren't forced to use a fiat currency, the people would naturally migrate towards a gold or silver standard. People don't like being paid in money that loses value over time. We calculate growth in the economy buy measuring it using GDP. That is terrible way to measure economic growth, with a fiat money system, the supply of dollars has to grow in order to be able to service the existing debts. The GDP has to go up. You are wrong to attribute advances in technology to fiat money rather then human ingenuity. Technology will always evolve no matter what form of money we use. What has happened in our fiat money system is the banks and the corporations they support have grown so large that they now control the fate of the world. The poorer are getting poorer while the richer are getting richer. Open your eyes, look at what is happening around the world, there are wars, uprisings, austerity measures, nations going bankrupt, banks collapsing, millions losing there houses, you can't chalk this up as a success.

Why were the first two abolished? Deal. Most nations are full of tyranny.

Still waiting for you to say that you were wrong. CTV has said that the team will be called the Jets never said whether it will be Winnipeg or Manitoba. Official announcement at the draft today.

You can just stream or download them over the internet for free, not sure if it is legal or not but you can still do it. Not saying I do that or anything

Okay, but that still does not change the fact that the Fed has a monopoly on the currency. Gold was $35 in the 70's, now it is around $1500. I am young so it makes sense for me to keep my savings in a metal rather then dollars. Dollars lose too much value over a long period of time. I think that process is accelerating too. Yes, I think ending Central Banks is one of the most important things we need to do. I would rather live in a place where other people shared that view.

Silver and gold are taxed in many states. I think silver will fall down to the high 20's but I am not a very good short term trader, I see long term trends which I believe is up. America is the only country I know of that has politicians calling for an end to their central bank.

I agree with you there. Yes, some will some won't, at least you will have the freedom to choose. I also think you will be able to digitally trade medal backed certificates just as easily as we do with our current fiat currencies now. I am not trying to elevate the US economy over any other economy and how will they act? It has nothing to do with a fear of having less. I don't like the idea of having a centrally planed economy. I don't like how the system is designed to favour big banks and big corporations.

Currency is money. However, I should have worded that sentence better. But legalize competition in the currency market and let the people choose what they want to use. I can guarantee people will start moving towards gold or silver backed currencies, something less inflationary then the Dollar. I don't think it gives you an advantage. I think there is a lot to gain from living in a society that has a larger middle class. I also think that eliminating the power the Fed holds over your economy is necessary to allow the free market to flourish. Ya, for the time being. The IMF just downgraded its forecast for America's economic growth...you will see soon enough what people like Ron Paul and others on this bored have been trying to warn you about.

You have to legalize competing currencies and let the market choose what money is. The banks should never control the money supply. I don't know your personal finances but not everyone is as fortunate as you. You will see the dollar collapse at some point in your life time.

I really don't care what you think his odds of winning are or if you think he has a chance to win or not. I am simply trying to explain his view points. Did anything that I have said about money not make sense to you? Do you understand how a fiat money system screws you over? Look at QE1 and QE2...The banks got billions of dollars to spend in the economy. Since they received the money first, they got to use that money when its value was at its highest. As the money has trickled down into the system and made its way to the people(you) it has began to lose its value because of the increase of dollars are circulating. As a result your cost of living goes up while your savings go down. If I must, I will move to the USA, there is no voice for libertarianism in Canada. As Canadians we are rather collectively complacent to whatever actions our government takes. I live in Manitoba, maybe I should move to North Dakota, there economy is the fastest growing economy in the States and it is close to home. Maybe North Dakota is the fastest growing state because it is the only state with a state owned bank.

Okay, well I mean financially but your missing my point. Many can't succeed because the system won't allow them too, it is mathematically impossible for them too, the system is fundamentally flawed. Since there is more debt in dollars then their is actual dollars, Central Banks must perpetually expand the money supply threw either open market operations of threw the commercial banks and fractional reserve banking in order to create the dollars needed to service the debts. The problem is that the dollars that are needed to service the existing debt are created out of new debt. Since the total amount of debt perpetually grows, Central Banks are forced to increase the money supply by greater and greater amount each time. http://thetruthwins.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/us-money-supply.gif Ron Paul doesn't want to return to the gold standard because he is crazy, it is because fiat money system can't work, it is impossible. Eventually the inflation that comes with the expansion of the money supply gets out of hand and it destroys the currency. This is why Ron Paul is against many of the welfare programs. They become too expensive and the debt associated with them leads to inflation which hurts the people that the welfare program was initially trying to help.

Just reading some posts, if Ron Paul was to get elected president, that means that a lot of people agree with his ideology. Come mid terms they will elect a new congress that would be more in tune with Ron Paul. I don't know why some of you guys are calling him crazy because he has a different perspective on how a Republic should be ran. Who holds the keys to the Fed? They are responsible for loaning out billions if not trillions to foreign banks. That isn't a small amount of money, shouldn't the congress have a say in that?

Which ones shouldn't?