AngusThermopyle

So esentially you're saying we should all leave and go back to where we all came from? Wouldn't that logicaly undermine your whole premise?

All you did with your previously well articulated post is convince me that I'm talking to someone who has never really experienced what people will do. Someone who has never ventured beyond their comfortable safe existence. Before you pontificate on the relative virtues and condemnations of war you might want to learn a little about this world you exist so comfortably within. Others here have tried to explain to you in the past that beyond the safe bounds of our country there are a lot of very bad places. Places where you would be lucky to survive more than a few days. Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you? These are places where life is cheaper than the time it takes to think about it. What you fail to understand is that all of your attempted sophistry means nothing when you are actually there. By there I dont mean myself or other Canadians, I mean when any human being has to live in such a place under such conditions. Believe me, their lives suck in a major way, I''ve spoken to them, protected them and lived amongst them, have you? At that point what happens is a joint understanding. Us "Invaders" interact with the people around us, with time an uneasy symbiosis occurs, neither one willing to give total trust, but both sides make overtures towards that goal. With time you actually make friends, those friends in turn breed fiends. However in the end sometimes even those who have become friends can and sometimes do turn on you. Doesn't matter though, you still keep trying and cultivating. So...apart from bitching and moaning, what exactly have you done and learned?

Nothing. Why? Would you like me to do something? What a Troll.

Sorry, ( except with all lower case letters ) I did mean that. I guess because of the combination of a glass desk, 500 watt Klipsch speaker system and about three beers I screwed up. My apologies. I forgot, add age to that list.

That was Klinger trying to get a section eight, Radar was the geeky little clerk who kept the place running.I gotta admit that the "gay boy" thing took me by surprise. Its been years since I heard that one. Come on Leafless, surely you can do better than that. Arghhh! Errol Flynn. He gave Pirates such a bad name, a traitor to the cause. A pox on Errol Flynn.

.Don't get me wrong DOP, my little rant wasn't directed at you. I was just musing about how people tend to get so upset about how other people spend their money. I actually do volunteer and donate to some select causes, I just don't give away the farm. It's funny how some criticize others vehemently yet aren't willing to sign over their pay cheques as a concrete sign of their convictions. Strange how that works.

In my younger days I would probably have worked myself into a state of moral indignation at the thought of such extravagance. Now, I really couldn't give a damn. If someone is filthy stinkin rich and wants to buy expensive pretty Camels or expensive pretty Horses I couldn't be less interested if I tried. Why shouldn't they do as they please with their money? I most certainly do. If I want the latest liquid cooling ready videocard and it costs $900.00, I buy it. I don't ponder starving people in other countries and I don't listen to those who would possess my money in order to give it to others, it's mine and I do as I please with it. In my own small way I try to help others, sure. That is not the driving imperative in my life though. Thats why I find cloned Camels and robot Jockeys far more interesting than which country gives how much. Simply put it doesn't matter one whit whether I think any particular nation gives enough or not enough. They're going to do what they're going to do, with or without my approval.

They most certainly were, they were providing safe haven for Al Quaeda. Sure thing. Stoning women in the streets, public executions, reduction of women to slaves, destruction of ancient artifacts to name just a few. Peachy keen bunch they are indeed. Now how bout you acknowledge the good that is being done by our troops. You know, digging wells, building schools and hospitals, training Afghanis to take control of their lives. Or is all that irrelevant in your opinion?

Welcome to the forum. Now stop making sense. Seriously, when it comes to Native issues logic flies out the window and is replaced with revisionism and some sort of semi mystical rationalization. I thought this thread had died a not so peacefull death.

We are already doing all that. Just because the Canadian MSM does not see any potential sensationalism in it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Thank you so much, no, I really mean it. I couldn't have displayed the irrelevancy of your posts any more clearly than you have just done with that single comment. Toddle on off now, okay.

Wow! Another unrelated rant filled with opinion and no facts. What does your rant have to do with my surprise at cloned Camels and robot Jockey's? Could you also provide a link showing that the stable hand will eat for a week because I've seen no indications of this. Once again, what does my surprise at cloned Camels and robot Jockeys have to do with Arabs and brown people not being supposed to have any cultural icons? When have I ever said anything even remotely resembling what you claim? Provide the link please. You really should try to refrain from making stuff up and then attributing it to others when it clearly can not be.

Can you believe that! Test tube Camels and robot Jockeys!

Finally an answer without insults. You are correct insofar as war being bad. In fact after serving 20 years I came to conclude that in war the concept of good and bad can become interchangeable and in some cases the lines can become so blurred between the two that they become difficult to tell apart. Given that, all we can do is abide by the will of our leaders and the majority who empower them. The assumption here is that I support the war in Iraq. That assumption is wrong. From the start I questioned why it was happening actually, as well as the morality of it. The war in Afghanistan is another story. We went to Afghanistan under both a U.N. and NATO mandate, we also went on a moral basis. Some may question this moral basis, however, personally I don't. Those who believe the Taliban were a force for good are deluding themselves. They are not. We don't go out of our way to kill civilians in Afghanistan, quite the opposite in fact. The very very vast majority of civilian deaths are caused by...you got it...the Taliban. No one talks about the rebuilding efforts being undertaken, the wells dug, the schools and hospitals built. All we here are unsubstantiated claims of killing civilians. If Canadians do kill civilians I can assure you it is unintentional and all efforts will have been made to avoid doing so. Unfortunately it is war and as such civilians will die in the course of it, thats just the way it is and neither you nor I can change that. It's only my opinion but I think that if the Taliban do regain power you would see a hell of a lot more civilian deaths than now in Afghanistan. Oh, by the way, just so you know. I do not support the Taliban or Al Quaeda in any way shape or form and if every one of them were wiped off the face of the earth I would not shed a tear nor loose any sleep over it.

Oleg! Oleg! You can come back down now!

Actually I've taken a big persons decision to not feed someone who is capable of nothing more than juvenile insults. Run along now, go insult the other kids in the playground.

Oh, I see your point alright. Your point is to change the subject. You asked for an instance when Oral history has been subverted to serve an agenda, I provided one. At that juncture you started to dance away from the subject onto one of Federal vs. Provincial jurisdiction. So, not only do you accuse others of the actions you so abundantly display but you also have a pronounced inability to admit or concede any point. Nice.

This we will take for what its worth being nothing more than your opinion with no concrete facts to back your assertion. The simple fact was that the information was falsified when presented in court. You asked when Oral history has ever been falsified, I showed you an example. In reply you then attempt to change the subject as to the value of the various layers of courts utilized. Nice attempt but no cigar. Next, once again you refuse to answer my question, yet you condemn others for not answering yours, pot calling the kettle black anyone? And finally, you just cant get away from the rather feeble attempts at insults and discuss matters in a more adult manner. This alone speaks volumes as to your maturity (or lack there off) and your intellectual capacity. In short you repeatedly demonstrate why no one should take you seriously, as I said, keep it up, I love watching someone dig their own grave with the skill you so abundantly display.

Thanks DM, you just reinforced what I've been saying all along. When the courts rule in their favour Natives tout the decision as unassailable wisdom. When it goe's against them then the courts are a joke. Really, I couldn't have summed it up more nicely if I tried. Well done! Now I've asked you this before but I'll try again. What exactly is people like me?

Can't disagree with you on this point. Human stupidity knows no bounds.

You're right, I did forget that one, unless I never saw it, but I most likely forgot it. Still, one or two extreme views or statements shouldn't be ascribed to one and all, nor should general insults be applied to one and all. It doesn't matter where you go or who you talk to, you will always find some with those kinds of attitudes. As for the graves, like I said, it's a terrible thing but not uncommon just about anywhere. Just recently vandals desecrated a jewish cemetary here in Alberta. Like I said, it happens.

I must have missed that because never once have I seen anyone here say any such thing. Would you be so kind as to show me where that was said? I'd really appreciate it if you would.

Good to see you have that whole juvenile insult thing under control. When you decide you want to talk like a big person let me know.

Spot on, an excellent point. I had a paper route when I was a kid back in England. Sure it didn't pay much but I didn't care. It was mine, the money I earned was earned by me, not just given. I loved that route, having it made me feel about as good as anything else ever has. It gave me the power to decide, I could decide to spend or save according to what I decided I wanted to do (within reasonable limits that is). It never occured to me then or since that I was some sort of abstract concept of an economic slave. Most likely because I wasn't. It is beyond absurd to attempt to claim that a kid with a paper route is a slave. It merely shows that the person making such a claim has no concept of what a slave is. There is nothing wrong with instilling a positive strong work ethic in a child. In fact you would be doing a child a disservice by failing to do so.

In that one statement you clarify the fact that you do not understand what it is to be a soldier. I believe it was Patton who said it best. "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." So far we've been doing a pretty damn good job of making them die for their cause. Of course, we could probably do better.