kuzadd

The christian industrial complex I let some christian do the 'splainin, ok, lucy?! http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-...ustrial-complex " A good friend mailed me a note the other day, asking my opinion of a book that was all the rage in his megachurch. It’s not the first time we’ve had that conversation. We’ve covered this ground many times because his church, like most of American megachurch evangelicalism, often behaves like a group of consumerist sheep looking for a shepherd. Such shepherds are supplied these days by Joel Osteen products, Rick Warren products, Jabez prayers and products, Left Behind books and games, Beth Moore products, Joyce Meyer products, Thomas Kincaid products, Max Lucado books and products, and so on and so on and so on. I call these “shepherds” because 1) the marketers are effectively leading evangelicalism through the high powered, high financed marketing of these products, 2) actual pastors are doing little to provide alternatives to this kind of marketing, but are often using these marketing promotions as the sources for sermon series and worship themes, and 3) the evangelicals buying these products are virtually without the ability to discern what is happening to the Biblical concepts of the Christian life and discipleship. Tie all this together with the fact that the most successful churches, most successful leaders and most successful Christians are buying into this consumerist version of Christianity and you have a major step in the undoing of evangelicalism." etc., etc., and another article: http://watkins.gospelcom.net/WarrenSmithEditorial.htm The Christian-Industrial Complex By Warren Smith COMMENTARY--"In his farewell address to the nation, Dwight Eisenhower gave a speech that became famous because it used the expression “Military Industrial Complex.” In it, Eisenhower warned of great danger if the military preparedness of our nation came to be seen as a mere “market” for private industrial interests. Eisenhower feared we would expand our military and the size of our government for all the wrong reasons. Eisenhower viewed the relationship between the military and industry as not merely symbiotic, but parasitic and pathological. Examples of the Christian-Industrial Complex are easy to see. The Women of Faith conferences, for example, rake in more than $50-million per year and are part of a for-profit, publicly traded company. The Christian retail industry topped $4.5-billion last year. (A bit of context: $30 per month can support many pastors in developing countries. That means that Americans spend enough annually on "Jesus Junk" to support 250-thousand Third World pastors -- for 50 years!) Another example that played out last month is the controversy over the usage of the greeting “Merry Christmas” instead of the greeting “Happy Holidays.” Beginning in the 1990s, some conservative Christian groups have decided that the use of the phrase “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” is a defeat of Christian values by the forces of political correctness. These groups include but are not limited to the Mississippi-based American Family Association and the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF), a Christian legal aid group. If you ask me, Christmas needs reforming, not defending. Indeed, the early church did not celebrate Christmas largely because they rightly predicted it would become what it has become, a materialistic bacchanal. In the 17th century, the Puritans attempted to eliminate the observance of Christmas altogether, believing it an unholy combination of the pagan and the “popish,” and because it resulted in much public drunkenness. For these reasons, in some New England towns, the observance of Christmas was actually prohibited by law. Indeed, such was America’s relationship with Christmas that Congress regularly met on December 25 until the 1850s.etc., etc.,etc., etc.," these are the opines of some christians, on the christian industrial complex. I am sure these couple of fellows, will just love the new toys! It seems not all christians are smitten with this new trend.

I am not using distinction to justify exploitation. I am using it for practical purposes, to describe something you understand as fully well as I do. If someone wanted to preserve the trait of blondeness it would be higly unlikely that it would happen if that person married a black person. This does not mean this person dislikes black people. If a "black" person said "You know I would like to marry a black woman and have black children. No offense to white people, but I would like to try to preserve variety." Would this offend you? jefferiah, in my previous post, which, you did quote a section of, I must have pre-answered your above postulation here's what I said................. Ta-ta I have said, all i have to say WRT this topic It's been a blast!

" So this means we better throw out christianity I guess, eh?. " did I say that anywhere, at all???? Nope! 'and must be pushing 40 or older listening to Marilyn Manson for? " does age dictate musical listening habits? "How is it that an educated 40 something year old can groove to an artist whose groupies are mostly made up of bitter kids rebelling against their parents with the type of music they listen to?" Does age dictate musical listening habits? do you dictate 'shoulds' and 'should nots' by stereotypical standards? Does it concern you that I used a quotation of a Manson lyric? Exactly what's your issue, with that?

I didn't throw that out there, that is the article , verbatim. I didn't write this article. it reads like this "The Christian Action League is funded by the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, and it is affiliated with the ultra-rightwing American Family Association." where are you getting the defense of the family thing from?? I read a reference to an organization, not an action.

http://www.answers.com/topic/race-1?cat=biz-fin Race and Ethnicity Within public health, there is disagreement about the meaning and use of the term "race." Often, public health scientists and the general public alike mistakenly base their notions of race on the idea that the human species can be separated into distinct human races identifiable through differences in physical traits (e.g., skin color, hair texture, facial features). Furthermore these ideas frequently carry with them the notion that these physical or other distinguishing traits have a basis in a homogeneous set of genes that differentiate races from one another. These ideas originated in the fifteenth century when the ability to support such ideas using sound scientific methods was not possible. Now, scientists from many disciplines (e.g., genetics, anthropology, sociology, biology) agree that there are no distinct human races as was previously claimed." hence archaic thinking A more recently developed concept about race is ethnicity. This concept, which emerged in the late eighteenth century, is usually conceptualized as membership in a group defined by a shared geographical origin or cultural history, including common language, religion, art, and other cultural factors. Ethnicity is distinguished from race in public health studies. In North America, the most common ethnic group designation is Hispanic, or Latino/Latina. gosh I wonder, where I would get the idea, of the necessity of having differentiation has been used to create bias??? So one group the "superior" can justify abuses against the other group , the "inferiors" as I already stated to you we have an entire world history of just this type of nonsense. Starting in the 1970s, scientific evidence began to accumulate to support the idea that races, as distinct biologically or genetically homogeneous groups of humans, do not exist. I am going to state that again, for you Starting in the 1970s, scientific evidence began to accumulate to support the idea that races, as distinct biologically or genetically homogeneous groups of humans, do not exist. Geneticists have shown that only a very small proportion (6% or less) I believe it is actually the lessor) of human genetic variability occurs between so-called races. Furthermore scientists within other disciplines, such as biology and anthropology, have discarded such definitions of race based upon notions of biologic or genetic homogeneity. Rather, scientists recognize that the concept of race has been socially constructed—initially in the sixteenth century to justify economic exploitation and political domination of certain populations distinguishable by physical features such as skin color—and that race is a set of economic, political, and cultural relations that result in health and social inequalities. I am going to repeat that again here, in print in the hopes it will sink in, finally Furthermore scientists within other disciplines, such as biology and anthropology, have discarded such definitions of race based upon notions of biologic or genetic homogeneity. Rather, scientists recognize that the concept of race has been socially constructed—initially in the sixteenth century to justify economic exploitation and political domination of certain populations distinguishable by physical features such as skin color—and that race is a set of economic, political, and cultural relations that result in health and social inequalities. The concept of race has been SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED , to justify economic exploitation. therefore I will reiterate my previous statement "YET, a number of us in the west continue to espouse archaic attitudes, about humanity despite the fact, we have enough knowledge and should be informed enough to KNOW, these attitudes are just that, archaic." Archaic, socially constructed concepts to justify exploitation, with no biological or genetic basis. Jefferiah: I don't need correcting thanks. If you wish to hang on to archaic, socially constructed concepts, created to justify exploitation, feel free. I don't because it serves the human race in no way, shape or form. If one wishes to marry people who have specific "desirable" physical attributes, wether it is skin colour, eye colour, or feet size, hair colour , bust size, buttock size, waist size, or 'member' size, one can choose amongst the myriad of HUMAN physical attributes, they are NOT RACE, they are physical attributes.

You say that making a distinction among races means one of the distinct varieties is superior to the other. actually I do not say making "distinction among races" Since there is no RACIAL distinction to be made among humans. why can't you grasp that? There are many physical variations,amongst the one race, that are interspersed amongst us all. There is but one race.

What I would also like to comment on is we ( in general, but not all of us) in the west, always like to espouse our superiority, our way of life, our education levels, etc., as being that of 'above' others in the world. YET, a number of us in the west continue to espouse archaic attitudes, about humanity despite the fact, we have enough knowledge and should be informed enough to KNOW, these attitudes are just that, archaic. I truly do think it is time, if we are as enlightened as we claim to be, to move past archaic ideas, and demonstrate, forward or more modern thinking in line with the level of knowledge, we do have.

Is this man a christian? Does he follow christian teachings? I don't think so.

No, if it had been a Mohammed doll, there would have been waves of cars burning across Europe. Lets not forget that Musselmen don't care much for cartoons, and one can only imagine what they'd do if faced with the ratcheted up blasphemy of action figures. But it's a great marketing ploy for some clever marketer who doesn't mind going into hiding for the rest of his life on pain of fatwa. I mean, a Mohammed doll would have to be anatomically correct so it could be Koranically correct and rape female dolls, and it would need have various accessories, like a sword for beheading Jews, and a sharp rock for stoning women, and maybe even an explosive vest for Islam's entry into the 21st century, but hey, that's just more profit for the poor sod who dares to do it. irregardless of your assertion, had it been a mohamed doll, this would have been up to 10 pages, like I said, about how awful Islam is to indoctrinate there young blah, blah, blah, so forth and so on. Except it's christians, and this isn't the first bunch of indoctrination tools, on the market, either. Let's here it for battle ready Jesus ! OH YA!

'jefferiah' date='Jul 21 2007, 06:28 AM' post='238987'] yes There is no such thing as multiple races, there are SUPERFICIAL VARIATIONS, in the ONE HUMAN RACE, that adapted as environmental responses, which will continue on, as it has in the past , so shall it continue in the future. the NAACP arose and continues to exist because of the persistence of racism, and all associated abuses, oppression, slavery, subjugation, etc., Therefore if they did not experience racism and racist attitudes from other persons within our human family, they would not have had to form a group of any type to protects themselves. and where at all did I say, anyone was? You see, when you put words in my mouth I do not appreciate it. Spare me your condescending attitude, please. Yes, I made an assessment, that the only reason we as people have defined race, is to enable one group to feel superior, and others to be defined as inferior. We have an entire global history that backs that assertion up solidly. Here in lies the rub, jefferiah, in ACTUALITY, READ CAREFULLY, because we are one race, the human race, and if the world was ideal and without biases,bigotry,prejudice, and people who need to feel superior, to justify there own actions, if all the humans in world acknowledged the reality of all humans being equal and entitled to equal rights as equal human beings, there would be no groups such as the NAACP. As long as people persist in dwelling on the nonsense, and superficiality of physical attributes. skin colour, eye colour, eye shape, hair colour, nose size, hand size, feet size and goodness knows what other physical attributes some persons insist on dividing the human race into, there will be groups like NAACP, and perhaps one day, there will be a groups to empower whites in the western world Where do people learn this nonsense, jefferiah, these biases, bigotry, prejudices? Usually at the feet of their own parents. So jefferiah, in actuality, in a perfect world, of respect, and equality, I would not support an NAACP, or any other racial empowerment groups, but, as long as attitudes persist, like a number of the attitudes expressed on this forum, these easily attainable goals of respect, equality and quite likely peace amongst our human family , will not be attained. Make no mistake jefferiah, we are a human family. ONE human family.

Uh...I don't know how your husband is connected with the topic, unless his "empire" is on its death throes being cowed by all this shining intelligence, not to mention getting butt-kicked and fearing for his balls. And what's with this about Scott being jealous of your husband? Am I missing something here? Aw c'mooooon! Ewwww, control yourself Kuzadd. You're a married woman! Just havin's some fun with scott. Get over it! My hubby, lives in no fear of his "balls" lol!

No, I said, is becoming irrelevant. Read the books, listen to the interview???

wrt: means 'with regards to' To answer the above nonsense, I AM OF THE OPINION and SCIENCE BACKS ME UP, there is one race and one race only! Why am I acknowledging the existence of the oppression of ONE GROUP OF HUMANS, over another GROUP OF HUMANS??? Because it exists, it is factual, has been recorded, it is historically accurate. WHY, because people, believe, misguidedly that certain physical characteristics, give them the "moral " superiority, gives them the right, to subject other human beings to oppressive and abusive behaviour. I am right in the first assertion and I am correct in the second assertion also. I can be right in both and I cannot help it appears, you cannot follow complex arguements.

actually jefferiah, again nowhere did I say there was an EXCEPTION for the NAACP, I said, unless you acknowledge that groups such as the NAACP arose, because of prejudice and oppression, as is historically factual, there is nothing worth discussing with you. And still you deny basic historical facts, therfore, no use to discussion

NO WHERE did I say that "only whites can be racist". Please post a link and direct quotation. Obviously you persist in twisting words, that are not mine. Nor reading what I actually say. DO NOT attribute statements to me, which I have not made.

I will , thanks! care to add to the discussion, or are you here, also like scottsa and betsy, to just attack, ridicule, and in general conduct oneself in a rude way. Did you read either of the books, I mentioned, or listen to the economist?

Bwa-ha-ha-ha! Thanks besty, for making what I said, all that much more clear and concise. "I know when and whom to waste my time with." and..................................... It ain't you babe, no , no , no it ain't you babe!

wow scottsa, did you listen to the economist ? read the books? even bother to check them out? yet, all you add to this discussion, is "And you should know, being the smart, educated and well read guy that you are. Why, I had almost forgotten the US bestrides the world like a behemoth existed before it trumped up 911. And I see what you mean about its irrelevance too...why, the USD is just a pretend pillar of international finance...pluck it out of the world system and I'm sure the global economy would fall flat on its arse no one would notice." oh absolutely nothing! save for facetiousness. BTW scottsa, I am not a guy. I am a .............................. dam smart, butt kickin', good lookin woman! who doesn't take any crap. Yet my hubby of over 20 yrs loves me. aaaahhh, ain;t that sweet? are you jealous yet? lol!

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2007/07/19/pr...in-prosty-case/ Rev. Coy Privette, the president of the Christian Action League, a North Carolina ultraconservative Christian political organization based in Raleigh, has been arrested for soliciting prostitution: Privette, 74, was charged with six counts of misdemeanor aiding and abetting prostitution by renting a hotel room and paying for sexual acts, according to State Bureau of Investigation Agent Kevin Canty. Tiffany Denise Summers, 32, of Salisbury, was charged with six counts of misdemeanor prostitution, Canty said. And: Police said officers were investigating a forged check case, which led them to the prostitution charges. Privette on two occasions allegedly paid the prostitute with checks then reported those checks as stolen, officials said. what a piece of work this good christian is!! HOLY smokes, or HOLY hookers, or HOLY liar??? According to its website, the Christian Action League is: a Christian public policy organization that addresses public policy and legislative issues from a Christian worldview. The Christian Action League has a full-time presence in the General Assembly of North Carolina and has garnered considerable respect from both the Republican and Democratic parties. The Christian Action League is funded by the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, and it is affiliated with the ultra-rightwing American Family Association. For over three decades, Privette has been one of the best known and most outrageous spokesmen for “family values” and Christian extreme right politics in North Carolina. In the 1970s, he was serving as minister at the North Kannapolis Baptist Church when he joined the tide of evangelicals entering politics that included the Moral Majority and Christian Coalition. He served in the N.C. Legislature from 1984 to 1992, and has been a member of the board of commissioners in Cabarrus County since 1998. He's got some family values!

Posit you are going off in another direction again. I was not targetting black groups. Kuzadd did with his own logic. If it is not ok for one group to have a group, then it is not ok for another. If it is ok for one group to have a group, then you have to allow another. As long as neither of those groups are promoting the destruction of the other. Right? You go off about how I should make a raicst thread about this or that. You are the ones who said it was not ok to form a group based on color, and when I point out that others exist you call me racist for it as if I was insulting them. Remember Posit you are the only one here who has made attacks against people of another skin color, so when it comes to racist threads you might as well lead the way. actually jefferiah, you are the one that brought the NAACP into this discussion, not myself. So get that straight, and stop the twisting. You refuse to acknowledge that groups such as the NAACP arose , out of necessity, to empower the oppressed. Until you acknowledge that FACT, you are simply wasting my time. What I REALLY think would actually surprise you, but, I will keep that to myself, as IMO, no more time is worth wasting on a poster that can't acknowledge, simple historical fact.

No doubt you are quite a bit cleverer than I am, but tell me, how does the quality of your previous education and the number of books you have read vary according to good and bad days? And how can you be 100% confident of anything when even fixed numbers can vary according to mood? Is this a new form of relativism that takes extant reality and hinges it to mood? I notice however that your insistence on there being one race seems to go out the window when there's a chance to put the boots to caucasians...are you 100% sure about race too? "I notice however that your insistence on there being one race seems to go out the window when there's a chance to put the boots to caucasians...are you 100% sure about race too?" truly scottsa, I haven't got an inkling to what you are referring to wrt this statement.

But it isn't a mohammed doll, we are discussing, it's bible action figures to brainwash little christian girls and boys and make 'superheros' out of persons in the bible. If it would have been a mohammed doll, this thread would have been up to 10 pages denouncing the brainwashing factor of this marketing move. But as always there's that old double standard........sigh.............

Maybe next, to go along with these 'action figures' We will get to see the marketing of 'Left Behind' action figures, geared towards the christian market, to get the young'uns ready for to be raptured!

I know. Ask her to expand on that. Better yet, to give something credible to back it up. Just fyi, you are debating with someone who put up a good fight trying to convince the board that Osama Bin Laden was not a religious person. Wanting us to take her word for it. Oh, your funny betsy, you see, I know when and whom to waste my time with. I have expanded on many topics with you, but, you see, I don't get my information from the bible, or preached to me at church, I read and educate myself. While some choose otherwise.

I checked it out and sounds like: " A place for democrats and liberals with closed minds. It has 70,000 members, yet they all sound the same. The basic message is "fuck bush, fuck republicans, fuck Howard Dean, fuck anyone with a differing opinion, oh god, the world is going to end." http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?...tic+Underground You did not "check it out" Here is the real link: Democratic Underground How can you NOT be glad that good American people are questioning their government? Is there something wrong with questioning how one's government is conducting itself? Do you not EVER question anything? Do you swallow everything you are told? Even when you KNOW you have been lied to numerous times? Sheesh. This is a multiple response Drea: You may find this interview very interesting an economist: http://www.gunsandbutter.net/archives.php?page=3 Hit the Listen Now button and listen to this interview as follows America: Host or Parasite? Interview with financial economist and historian, Dr. Michael Hudson. Dr. Hudson is President of The Institute for the Study of Long-Term Economic Trend, a Wall Street Financial Analyst, Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City and author of "Super-Imperialism: The Economic Strategy of American Empire". We discuss the US balance of payments trade deficit which creates US credit to finance the US national debt and war abroad; Russian economic shock therapy as the final stage of the cold war; the real estate bubble; permanent war and the inevitable collapse of the current US dominated global economic system. Visit his website at www.michael-hudson.com. Betsy and American woman, you would also benefit greatly from these interesting perspectives. The grab his book! Then while your at it, another book I just finished, it is excellent, written in 2002, translated in 2003. I cannot recommend this book highly enough. After the Empire: The Breakdown of the American Order (Hardcover) a review here http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/stor...1143265,00.html So far, he is quite accurate, having the value of hindsight.