Catchme

It can't. Its not. http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm Wonder who is going to tell the Canadian geese, who actually exhibit a high % of homo sexual behaviour that their society will collapse under the on slot of such behaviour? Well I certainly never said or inferred that. same sex relationships are not the norm however. What is the norm regarding sexual relationships anyway?

It can't. Its not. http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm Wonder who is going to tell the Canadian geese, who actually exhibit a high % of homo sexual behaviour that their society will collapse under the on slot of such behaviour?

C-blue you said that "Karzi wants us there", back tracking on that "dictatroship" comment of yours after the fact says much about the perceptions you hold regarding Afghanistan peoples independant voice. BTW, you are also wrong re: Afghanis http://www.thefreedictionary.com/afghanis http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/afghanis It is used for both money and the peoples.

Respectfully Topaz, why do you think that? The Greens are dropping in the polls, the NDP have a greener policy than the Greens, and in fact the Greens and NDP actually share a very small mutal base. It is an assumption that has no base in fact, and even less now that May has shown she is a social conservative trying to draw from the CPC base.

This where: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6237607.stm

Not only did I read your link but I read between the lines. Yeah, right. The Afghanis were able to keep the Soviets out and now they need our training. Unlike you, I am not a sucker for military propaganda. Yes. Answer my questions. 1) What Afghanis are fighting? 2) Defend your poll. The methodology of this "poll" says that people were asked face-to-face. Do you think the pollsters sought the opinion of the people fighting too? Only the wilfully obtuse, would ignore the same orgs findings a year later showing that opinion had dropped over 20% within a year. Only the wilfully obtuse would ignore the fact the org would only sample those in secure areas and that only the friendly to foreigners would even be answering it. Personally, I can’t see people disregarding the comments of duly elected Afghanis MP’s either. However, as was observed with the Iraq debacle, that certain peoples refused to believe how bad it was there until plausible deniability was impossible. The same is happening with Afghanistan, apparently.

Stop right there! Before you go any further. Let me get this straight: an overwhelming majority.... hmm...... Who is doing all of the fighting?????? I guess if "an overwhelming majority" support The Mission In Afghanistan!, we could just supply The Overwhelming Majority with arms, could we not??? -- but noooooooo, that is not what we want. God forbid we should let the poor Afghanis defend themselves. We want The Mission to go our way. I call your bluff. The methodology of this "poll" says that people were asked face-to-face. I am sure the pollsters sought the opinion of the people fighting too. Who is this World Public Opinion anyway? Sounds like a stupid name. Good post, and your corrct to call the bluff. Many things have changed in the last 13 months in Afghanistan. Pulling out a spurious poll that is over a year old does not constitute proof of anything in today's Afghanistan. Particularily in the face of information coming out of Afghanistan currently including from WorldOpinion .org, which of course the person posting this out of date poll did not provide, as apparently it doesn't suppport the premise they are trying to erroneously push. Overview of the latest Afghanis World Opinion Polls not the out of date one published prior

What is fabricated besides nothing! LOL Harper's having to save his skin in Ottawa is not prophecy, it was obvious from the get go he would have to, it is a minority government after all.

Karzai is not a dictator. He won Afghanistan's democratic election, thus he is a democratically elected leader. Honestly, think before you say this stuff. You discounted the MP's voices above in the thread not me, and you stated "Karzi wants us to be there", as evidence of I know not what, he is 1 voice. I was merely pointing out to you that you must acknowledge the MP's you yourself discounted prior to this, as by supporting only Karzi's view means you are supporting a dictatorship, please follow the posts better. In all the dialogues, in the last few days, we have had Canadian blue, you have shown yourself to be woefully uninformed, and bolster that lack with personal disparagements against posters. Which again is shoddy thought processes and posting. You ask for proof of others but only provide opinion only on your part. Again I walk away from a thread as I am sure now of what you are.

Quite the contrary, it is you have evidenced no knowledge of Afganistan before last week it seems, as you say, you know none of the history leading to this point, and you appear to not know any history of the Afghanis peoples in history at all. Nor did I say the Taliban are better than Canadian Forces. Trying to frame a debate along the lines of personal commentary, as you have been doing, is bad form. Compounding it by putting words in others mouths shows bad form and an inability to debate the points presented. I also stated I was all for the reconstructive efforts when they were going on. As a feminist, I understand that that it is up to the Afghanis women to define and fight for their own choices in life in their own country, just as it is for Canadian women, or Japanese women, or Brazilian women, or in fact any woman in any country. It seems you do not know much about feminism and self determination without interference from others imposing their values and views.

catchme says to that: That would be your own opinion of course, and trying to frame the discussion from a point like that is shoddy. Not all Afghan's are going to have a jihad, just the Taliban. The Taliban has been regrouping since 2002. You'd be surprised what a few terrorists can do. Canadian soldiers are not killing civilian's, and once again why do you think the Taliban would be a better alternative than NATO soldiers? Their have always been tanks in Afghanistan, not necessarily Canadian, but they have been there. As well I don't see any correlation between the tanks and casualties in Afghanistan. As well your lack of any military knowledge is really starting to show on here. Well, claiming Canadian soldiers kill civilian's is a pretty strong claim. Are you sure it's not caused by drought? Do you have a link to back this up, and use either CNN, BBC, CTV, Wikipedia, Answers.com, etc. Not rotten.com, or blacklistednews.com I'm not aware that Medusa was only meant to kill civilian's. I believe their was collateral damage, however that is always unfortunate, and we will often take steps to minimize any civilian loss of life. Operation Medusa was meant to weaken the Taliban, and it was successful in doing so. Were not going to cower because of what a few members of Parliament say, while the vast majority want us to stay. As well that's not representative of the entire population, and I think a large majority prefer us over the Taliban. What a few MP's state doesn't mean the entire country of Afghanistan is against us. I'm pretty sure a large majority want us to stay in that country, unless you can prove otherwise. Your ignorance on the issue is really starting to show. We were moved to the southern region of Afghanistan under Paul Martin's Liberal government. The south is more hostile than the relative peaceful north. The country has been getting torn apart by the Taliban. As well the Canadian military is helping train the Afghan's how to defend their own country so we can eventually leave. The Afghanis have been defending their country pretty good for several hundred years, even Russia had to leave. fairly arrrogent to think we could make them adhere to our dictates. You are apparently saying Canadians have not killed civilians, yet, our military are coming home with PSTD because of it, and you your self report there is collateral damage which is only a nice way to say: "UH, WE KILLED CIVILIANS" Harper extended the mission, our military should have came home. You have not proved they want us to stay though you have said your own opinion often enough, while I on the other hand have provided articles as well as the first article by BC Chick stands. So put up your proof other than say: "Karzi wants us to stay", as then we are just propping up a dictator. You cannot discount the MP's in a democracy, or you do not have one, they were democratically elected after all. Drought is the a part of the problem, but its effect has been worsened as you should know by the destruction of the dikes. I was quite clear on that. Just google Afghanistan and USA reconstruction money not delivered or something close to that and you get a million or so hits. Besides this BBC one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5029190.stm Oh yes, the link to BBC also explains why the Taliban have been regrouping.

Nope! Which is why people were so furious about it. Which is why canuck e stan has his thread starting elswhere with comments why worry even 2050 will be soon enough.

Brilliant strategy on Harper's part - make the NDP seem relevant and take a big chunk of votes away from the Liberals. The conservative cruise up the middle and win a majority. Cruise up the middle? Oh man, that is the funniest thing I have heard in relation to CPC being anywhere close to the middle politically. He was not/is not rying to make the NDP relevant, he knows his government is toast if it comes down now. It's called saving thy skin. Things would have to change a good deal before the CPC would even get a minority government now. They have lost PQ and he knows it. The only way Harper can say in is if he delivers a completely modified Clean Air Act, no go on the environment and the future of the world aka mankind, no stay in power. If truth be told, we should just go to the election polls again, and let Canadians decide what we want, and if we deliver a 3rd consecutive minoritry government, the Liberals and CPC better had start paying attention to what Canadians in the majority want. And just in case some live in an echo chamber, I will let you on a secret, pretending your a majority in a minority government situation really isn't going over well with Canadians. Watch the next stats poll and see.

Are you not listening? The Afghanis are about have a Jihad to get rid of the liars who have invaded their country with false promises. That is defensive you are speaking of, I am speaking of offensive actions by our military and we should Leave the country instead of killing more of those you say your there trying to help. Why do you keep over looking this aspect? We are not in battle, so NO they should not be there, nor were they until Harper took office, and then more Canadians started dying, so I guess tanks there really do very little protecting of Canadian military now do they? Your guess would be wrong. And I know exactly why e were there, I was actually proud of the very successful efforts we were having in the beginning, until the USA's promise of reconstruction money did not come. I never bashed our soldier, that is a red herring unworthy of this discussion. Stop putting words in my mouth. War in a country always causes starvation, it does not take evidence to support that, plus there are links in this very thread that say so, apparently you did not read them. You were at the other read thats had a luink also, did you not read it? Now why would we be there to rebuild? Your comment of not knowing is.... Not launch an offensive that kills civilians and stil does no good, in fact it has made things worse so.... other means than bringing tanks in should have been undertaken, like insisting the uSA buck up promised reconstruction monies. That would be hearsay information to me and to others reading this. I am sure others like I have heard reports otherwise. So, have I and the reports are saying Afghanis are joining the Taliban, as better the devil you know, than you don't. rember the facts in the article that started this thread, as it seems you may have forgotten. Afghanistan wants us gone Is he the Dictator now propped up by Canada? The country was torn apart byfor NO reason our military was to go to reconstruct. Which they were doing, and slowly gaining ground until about a year ago, when somehow everything changed!

Most certainly it will get done, but not because ogf the CPC and Baird's watching Gore's movie. But because the NDP, guarding the gates of Canada as usual, were the ones going to and will bring down the government unless the Clear Act is completely re-written. That is why Harper went to Layton and asked him and the NDP to go over the Clean Air Act and make changes well before Baird came into the scene. The committee re-writing it is already on the go since well before Christmas. So... apparently people should be voting NDP who are environemntally concerned because the other 2 parties do not care, just as they don't about pretty much anything else either. Harper wanted to wait until 2050 before we started doing anything. And the Liberals have done nothing for 13 years.

There are many studies that have been done since the advent of the industrial age over the agrarian age on society. From many different aspects have the studies and analysis been conducted, I.e. economists, anthropology, cultural geography. All show that once a nation reaches a certain point of industrialization versus agrarian, population growth slows within a generation and keeps decreasing thereafter. There are a variety of factors as to why, none that need to be discussed on an environmental thread. Suffice it to say, the person who posted it is correct. And it is apparent that infact we all must be agreeing now that with this new report we have factual evidence we humans need to slow our carbon dioxide emisssions, and soon. As the Stern report said you know, we cannot afford not to. Need to do it now!

Gee, seeing how the first principle of scientific study is to do so from a un-biased position having Exon fund it starts off with a bias. By having oil companies paying for studies to prove that carbon dioxide emisssions from the burning of fossil fuels are contributing to global warming means that they will not want to pay for studies that do! The example of the cigarette manufacturers denying culpability and having biased studies done for 40 years is a good one. This comments is off topic and should have been even ritten down it swerves no purpose. Read the Stern Report out of England and the recent new study released in the other environmental thread you all seem to be avoiding. You will see Global watrming has increased by what humans do, it will disrupt and our economies and way life if we do nothing. Humans Speeding up Global Warming So your saying humans are NOT and HAVE NOT been destroying the environment all over the world ever? Personally I think you got it backwards, I would say that those who want to keep their constant consumer disposable, chemical polluting life styles are truly the ones who are egotistical and self centered.

No, its not avoiding the real issue its facing realities. A common argument I hear is that Canada is spending too much time on the combat instead of the reconstruction efforts, however it is hard to do reconstruction while being fired upon. As well here is the problem were facing in Afghanistan, the biggest problem is the Pakistan border, and the mission could fail if we don't address that issue. Also European nation's have to start sending some forces to the south in order to alleviate the strain on the Canadian's, Dutch, American's, and British. I'm not going to advocate a pullout though unless we have exhausted attempts to make the mission a success. We can't cower simply because of some casaulties. Expending more resources will do nothing to help Afganis. They are starving to death and dying from diseases. Our military rampages over their fields destroying what little does grow. Our military has destroyed dikes that were used to irrigate fields. Our military hold battles in their fields, using offensive military actions with tanks, an action that Canada has not used upon others since 1956 and the Korean War. The people are having to sell their children to live, all because we have ravaged a country that had nothing to do with what we are supposed to be fighting against there. Instead of following the mandate to rebuild the country. This is what Afghanis think of our being there, maybe we should listen and get out as they want: Get our military out of Afghanistan, they do not want us there for any reason!Operation Medusa should never have happened, Canadian tanks should never have been sent there. Our leaving would NOT cowering in the face of our casualities. Our leaving would be because we are doing NOTHING good there now. Just how many more women and children have to die before we Canadians insist of our government that we get out? Some say we are they to make women and childrens life better, hah, there won't be any left by the time we're done. The esculation of violence in the last few months is representative of the change in orders on the ground to offensive actions and nothing more. More people there just mean more people are going to die. It is not the Taliban fighting against Canadians, they are in Pakistan, and in the mountains bordering, it is Afghanis against us who want us out of their country who are conducting the attacks nowadays it appears.

No you didn't the posts show that geoffry made the comments in response to yours, and the responses were in response to geoffery's comments to you.

Already way ahead of you again canadian blue, posted a whole new thread about it, as well as this travesty of Afghanis starving and having to sell their daughters that you did not respond to.

Those foreigners would be our Canadian troops. Chris Sands is a British freelance writer living out in the wilds of Afghanistan. He has been there for 16 months, travelling without the help of NATO soldiers or anyone else who carries a gun. Operatio Medusa back firing Big Time

Timely manner? 320 hrs a day are getting back logged. Time for timely appointments was up 6 months ago. This is a bigger priority than the other stupid things the CPC have done, even according to the CPC. As they want offenders in jail not out on the streets they said when the Liberals were in power. Seems like the opposite is happening.

That's easy when your a third world country, no one goes to work let alone drives to work, and cities are larger reducing the transportation impact on GHG (a major factor in Canada). The average temperature in India is what, 30 degrees? I doubt if they have the home heating that we do. We can reduce our levels to India no problem, we've got to live like them though. And I choose not to. No we don't have to live like them, that is a strawman argument. Actually I try to limit plastic when and where I can, which is a goodly %,actually. My house is fill of antiques, not plastic fibre and plastic covered furniture. I use glass and paper for the storage of my food. I do not buy things in plastic if I can buy other, I use cloth grocery bags. My floors are wood, and ceramic tile, no petroleum product flooring like tiles or linoleum, 1 bedroom has carpet, wool. The largest collection of plastic I have are my CD's and DVD's. And my comp, stereo and TV's. Light switches and plug outlets are brass. 2 rooms have plastic blinds, the other rooms have cloth, or metal blinds. My garbage cans are all metal though I do use plastic biodegrable bags. Clothes baskets are wicker and cloth. Our house is heated by forced air electricity with wood back up if hydro outages occur. All my light bulbs are energy efficient floresants. My appliance are energy efficient. I do not wear plastic clothes and I drive a 4 cylinder Nissan not because I like it so much, but because it has great gas miledge. I want my grandchildren to have a great world left to them and to their children. If more people made the effort to cut down even a little, we could make close to targets, selfishly destroying the earth so one can live comfortable is unrighteous. How do you know? Not true, 2% of the worlds problem and we have only 33 million people imagine if our birth rate soared? Not true this report says otherwise as do a great many others..

It does not matter when the openings came about, Harper has been in power for a year, the CPC need to stop blamming the Liberals for their failings and all that is not happening in Canada. It not only makes them look like failure but whiners too.

This makes no sense, as the math shows that India has 1.1 billion people but have only 1/10 the GHG emissions. This means they are doing better than us by a long shot, even if their population increases 20-30 million per year. This means we are bigger contributors to the problem than they are. Canada is a bigger contributor to the problem than India. We need to take care of our business of being extreme polluters before we say: "if we fix what we are doing it makes no differnce as India is increasing it population and will negate our efforts. So not realize how absurb that sounds? Using India's population increase as a reson NOT to fix our mass polluting? I am shocked. I agree with finding a replacement for oil. However, building a fire wall around Canada preparing for the consequences "of our actions inflicting the world" all because some think we have the water and resources to pollute all we want, and then ride it out while the rest of the world suffers is unbelievable. , I disagree it will make a difference, and it seems like mother nature should be getting rid of the worst polluters, which is us.