Catchme

Oh so he took journalist on one of the trips out of 10? I realized it was the same jet the Harper et als screamed about, but to me I expected harper to use it, must like the whole Stornoway rhetoric.

Unreported????? Undisclosed????? Get real. Re-classified. i.e. it was classified incorrectly. It was reported. They just admitted to not reporting it. They sure did just admit to not reporting it, as they had to, but really the largest portion we are speaking of, is not really known to be comprised of what and whom as it is "UNDISCLOSED" We only know that 700k was conference funds that were "UNDISCLOSED" but are now "DISCLOSED". Now just who did the other "UNDISCLOSED" funding come from?

This "blame the victim" is so morally backward as to be in some cases very unrational. It's like people saying that children are the penance that one pays for having the evil of all evils, sex. Then for some to say social programs provided by the government are unconstitutional is beyond belief. We pay, our family pays and in most cases our close and older family/relatives have been paying, to uphold a social safety net so future generations, quite possibly their own, would not have to live in grinding poverty, and enslaved work conditions. If circumstance changes where one has to draw upon it, one should not feel guilty, nor ashamed. It is only the Jones, and those who wish to keep up, who poor bash in order to self-determine their pre-eminence.

Yes, and it's not as if he carries a press/media junket around with him either. Maybe if he did he could support the cost of using a 120 seat airplane X 10 in the last 9 months. But of course he won't! How many times to Calgary, or were there stopovers only?

Wonder why so many people don't stop and ask themselves why he was tried for killing a couple a hundred shiites, and nothing happened about the hundred thousand kurds who were killed. It never amazes me how much logic people lack in their convictions and how easily many people believe the "official" story of things no matter how inexplicable they may be. "Why" seems to be lacking in their vocabulary. Why is usually not aksed because they do not want the answer to the question, in this case the answer being because the USA is culpable and there would have to be US officials testifying.

Me either, again CPC=LIBERAL. The exampled differences in costs associated, and others saving more, show that all efforts to keep expenses down were not utilized.

No mischaracterizing it, and no I am not backing away, as I stated polls say it all. George Bush was an incidential off side. It is off topic.

I don't believe anyone has ever complained - until now - about the travel expenses of government ministers and staff to attend to their duties. I'm quite certain such things never concerned any of you before either. Of course they have, and of course we have. There were many such debates in the Canadian forum world when the Liberals were government and evidence is given by your response at the end knowing exactly how much the GG's trip to Russia cost and what Chretien was up to. Please do not ascribe your emotional state upon others. Plus it is not the topic here. We just did apparently get back to you on an expensive pointless fact finding expedition.The location matters not. You now call the CPC doing the same thing doing their duties and jobs. Why is it them doing the job and the Liberals doing the same thing something else?

The Rev Jessie Jackson: Plus, there is the significance of today's date, for this travesty, that will come into play in the not too distant future.

I find it sad, and a good indicator of a lacking personality, that someone has nothing better to do than harp on someones typo. What, you have nothing better to add to the debate so you attack personally. How conservative of you. If all you have is to attack is my typo's go ahead, it is a pathetic endeavour, and reflects poorly on you in my books. I think you are the one who is having problems recognizing the fact the CPC is just as bad as the Liberals ever were. I guess it is your man crush on Harper that blinds you. It cost tax payers that went to the convention money. They couldn't claim political donations on their income tax without receipts. Sure, there's no profit when they hide 3.5 million dollars. Like holy crap man, open your freaking eyes! If it didn't serve their interests, or profit them in some way, why try to hide the money in the first place? Good post on alll accounts. Trying to hide the money was because it was over the amount allowed by LAW. Hence the reason why they tried to change the law retroactively, kinda like georgie did in the USA, only they didn't succeed here. Which is why now a year later they have had to fess up, they had no choice, the only thing they could do was to try and time it when they thought people were not watching. 3.5 million in scammed money before they took office. 'nuff said.

Should have been challenged long ago, it's unconstitutional for the Federal government to interfere in social programs. Oh, unconstitutional is it? Please post just what consitutions government social programs are breaking? Yes let's take a look. That Alberta is doing well economically for the moment, is not because of right wing governing, it is accident of placement and nothing more. If not for the tar snads, just where would AB be, and to get into this further would mean serious topic drift. BC? Oh please I live here, Gordon Campbell has not built the economy. Bernard Lord was Premier of all the Maritimes? How about you have a look and see what constitutes the "Maritimes"? How about you provide proof of this before I provide proof otherwise? And usually lower cuts in welfare equal higher payouts dealing with crimes of poverty.

Oh I am sure many Liberals vote for equality and social issues. The point being they should not be marginalized in the first place is it not? It really isn't an either or thing is it? Funny that you would think so. Well, I was certainly commenting on them and seeing as how neither the CPC nor the Liberals take either seriously, we should be focusing on those that do. Well, too bad more did not think like that and we would not have to be dealing with it every 2 minutes. Plus I guess you must be a hetrosexual, wealthy white middle aged male. Funny you keep hitching rights to economy. And rights issues are fine and dandy all the time, a poor economy has no bearing on them. Funny priorities. But anyway, what do you mean restoring Canada to a respectable level on the international stage? Rights are never ridiculous and only someone that enjoys full comfort of them would say so. Again, it is not an either or, they are not mutally exclusive things, why you would think so escapes me!

In actual fact, what you are speaking of is pre-employment programs, subsidized work entry programs and state paid skills training. Unfortunately, those have of federal programs have been gutted by the CPC. And many provinces do not have them, and those that do/did have been gutted by right wing governments. Yes, I concur they are. I actually agree with you on all the points you stated. And in reality no one equating it with slavery, just addressing the act of enforced work.

Thanks for this heads up hiti, I remember when they were screaming about the costs of the GG's trip to Russia, and Chretien's SUV convoys, amongst other trips.

Well I guess it depends on whether you consider serving your country to be slavery or an honour. Nothing against Tim Hortons but I wouldn't consider working there much of either. Again wilbur, you have missed the point, the Military was someone elses example of where they could put "work fair" people to work. I said it would be slavery, not meaning the military would be, but the act of enforced labour would be slavery, it matters not the what which people would be forced to do.

The logical fallacy is that anyone is going to admit to voting CPC, and then admit, they were foolish and would not be doing it again. Setting it up so people would have to admit this, is the logical fallacy you imposed for my comments to be proven correct, they won't and didn't. However, it shows in the polls and it will show at the up coming election. Hiti, Your words are dead on the money as usual! Imagine them likening it to a parking ticket or less.

Saddam was hung for murdering 132 people, the USA Coalition has now killed an estimated 650 thousand innocent Iraqis. I do not believe justice was served this day, in order for the the USA to say: "see we got rid of an evil dictator". A dictator they put into power and kept there through out all his murdering days, and in fact supported him in his endeavors. Yes, of course I have proof and will post it if indeed there are those who try to say other. They will rue this day just as they rue ever going into Iraq in the first place.

Scam millions? Maybe, just maybe, the Conservtives are too busy running competent Government to scream bloody murder. No explanation for your *strawman* analogy? Still haven't heard from anybody who voted for the Conservatives in January but not now because of this elections act issue. Like you said existed... Um, that would be a big NO on running a competent government! Thank God they won't be around long enough to do any more damage. You just indicated your strawman argument yet again, saying that anyone who voted CPC in January, please stand now and say you won't be voting for them is a strawman position that you kicked down when you say no one has said they won't here.

Well, Geof can correct me if I am wrong. But I believe he was stating that fiscal conservatism is more important amongst voters than Social Conservatism. Also listening to him talk about Health Care and the Environment, shows me that these were not the issues he was commenting on. May is providing false hope for die hard anti abortionists. I am not sure you are correct about that, a good many Canadians are very concerned about soc-cons, and are getting much more concerned. May providing false hope, in order to try and grab CPC voters who are upset about the CPC's denial of the of the environment issues facing us? Personally, I feel then her her actions are even more reprehensible. Playing cutsey with peoples rights, is never righteous under any circumstance.

This is just it. There really is no difference between the two parties, except one of them just ran on an election platform of accoutnability and ethics. Well, you're correct the CPC did run on accountability and ethics, how people bought into that in the first place was unknown to me though, leopards do not change spots., and all. However, those that try to deflect away from their party's corrupt actions by saying who knows what the Liberal/french crew are up to, should not be digging themselves a deeper hole. You can bet your boots, if the CPC thought any other party was doing anything illegal they would be screaming bloody murder. The fact they are not tells us they be the only ones currently breaking the law and attempting to scam millions.

Wilbur, your fixating on the military here. It is the action, not the organization where enforced work would be slavery. It could be Tim Hortons and not the military for an example, only your not apt to be forced into a situation where your life could be forfeit because your poor if forced to work at TH's.. Just because the people forced to work would be receiving a wage does not mean that it is not slavery. Main Entry: slav·ery Pronunciation: 'slA-v(&-)rE Function: noun 1 : DRUDGERY, TOIL 2 : submission to a dominating influence 3 a : the state of a person who is a chattel of another b : the practice of slaveholding

catchme did you vote Conservative in January and are now going to vote Liberal because of the Elections Act mixup? Did anybody who is making an issue of this? All the attacks over the issue appear to be coming from partisans who would never vote Conservative. Can anybody on the board honestly say they voted Conservative in January but won't in the next election because of this issue? Now that was a nice strawman that you set up and kicked down. Nor does downplaying it to a elections act mix up work. 3.5 million dollars is not a mix up.

I still don't think it will mean a hill of beans difference come election time. And I am not surprised that the CPC is acting like Liberals. I am only surprised at how fast it started to happen. I did realize that this isn't the party of Preston Manning, or someone else with the integrity of Ed Broadbent. But alot has come loose pretty quick, and these apologists, rather than just saying, yeah, we got caught, and then it would go away, continue to dig deeper. Of course it will, those who were sick of government corruption voted CPC, now that they see there is no difference in corruption between the 2, most they will go back to the Liberals, it seems that some think the Liberals are the lesser of 2 evils if both are corrupt. AKA Brian Mulroney years and defeat. We will see it play out in close ridings, and in PQ, for sure. This will become an issue once the holidays areover and parliament sits, the CPC thought they could escape scrutiny by doing the fessing up just before Christmas, and figured people wouldn't notice and that it would be blown over by January. Boy are they wrong.

If those who are conscripted are slaves, does that make those who volunteered stupid for volunteering to be slaves? Bad choice of words, no? Big Blue Machine wrote: It would seem that some Canadians believe that forced membership in the military should be some kind of penalty for those who rip off the system and that those who volunteered should be penalized by having to put their lives in the hands of those people. It seems to me that both of you have a rather low opinion of the military. No it does not wilbur, forcing anyone into any form of work is slavery. Volunterring to become military is a personal choice, as it is not imposed, nor can it be considered stupid if it one's choice. How you could even spin my words that way I do not know. And wilbur neither comment that you quoted shows a bad opinion of the military. That position is entirely of your own making. Now back to the topic. Blaming people for being poor is never righteous nor correct.

The Conservatives provided good policy in their election platform but as soon as they got elected they promptly refused to implement most of it. Holding them up to their own standard set before they were elected, would be a very good alternative to what their own standard dropped to after they got elected. Of course, we all knew what the Cons were saying would be much different than what they would do. And after touting Gomery so hard and fast, Harper hurriedly shot down many of Gomery's points on what needed cleaning up and how it should be done. And no the CPC's ethical standards do not surpass anything the Liberals did, the 3.5 million in undeclared campaign financing that was beyond legal set limits shows that.