Catchme

I wasn't aware we were trying to conquer the place. What else would you call it? We are there occupying against the will of Afghans, excluding the Karzi puppet regime, we are trying to force them to conform to western ideology? And we are conductiing ourselves outside the framework of the Geneva Convention and International Law.

See you failed to note the other 2 polls that show Harper trailing, both Dion and layton,and one of them was The Best Prime Minister questions. Why are you failling to report on the whole polls BTW? As I noted in the other thread on recent polls, regarding the CTV's, it was a push poll, the questions were not clear and were slanted, plus having a Ontario margin of error of 5%. The poll was not good news for the CPC no matter how the msm tries to spin it. This question is also a push poll, no point in even responding. :rolleyes

The point is quite apparent and it has to do with personal biases and defaming people.

And why are they appointing theo-cons to judiciaty committee when they had argued for the changes the Liberals had mad to cvreate arm's length appoitments? http://www.anticorruption.ca/forum/phpBB2/...opic.php?p=4829 People are being appointed to the judicial committee because of their theocon credentials, it most certainly is our business to have full disclosure of their background. The RCMP, Prison Guards, Crown Prosecuters, future Judges up for consideration, all have to give full diclosure, and are subject to intense investigations and so should the judicial committee members, it is only common sense. For example: “Marshall Rothstein’s candidacy was scrutinized by a comprehensive process initiated by the previous Government that included members from all the political parties,” Mr. Rothstein has agreed to answer questions from an ad hoc all-party committee on Monday, February 27. The televised hearing will mark the first time in Canadian history that a Supreme Court nominee will face questions from Members of Parliament." Those who appoint new judges should go through the same screening as those they appoint.

I agree. Any nation that practices state executions is largely uncivilized. Are you willing to include China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, N&S Korea, Japan, Jordan, Egypt, Singapore and about 75 others in this statement? http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-countries-eng Borg The word I would use is barbaric. Then what do you think about US troops kidnapping a 6 year old girl? Or the fact that the GOP has an accused terrorist donating money to them?

Actually it was up to the Bush Administration and the CIA/Intelligence services to proove to the world that there WAS wmd's. If you say something, like SADDAM HAS WMDs!, you better have the evidence to back it up. But they don't have any evidence to back it up. So basicly this argument is no longer valid. It was all lies. Or are you aware of what a LIE really is? Have they been found yet? No. Was the intel before the war sound? No. Why do I have to proove to YOU that there were none. It was the Bush Admin and Co that told us there were WMDs. (fuck, this shit is getting old with you people) It was up to them to proove to us that Saddam had WMDs. So after the invasion, well 2-3 years later, they are not even looking for this 'smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud' evidence. Bush and Co said - Yes there are weapons. None were found. And eventually they stopped looking for this 'slam dunk' evidence. Any of this getting through at all?? Also if the plan in 1998 was to oust Saddam, then why even say he HAS WMDs, when you intel clearly showed there was no real solid proof. Remember those so called undergroud bunkers Al-Qaeda has? I wonder why they have not mentioned anything else of that. So by this 1998 resolution, the USA planned to go into Iraq at some time. All that crap leading up to the invasion in 2003 was just hogwash bullshit to get the public on board for the war. Those who don't have a sharp mind may get bogged down in all this 'evidence' that the Bush Administraion has said existed. If they lied about that, what else could the Bush Administration have lied about? This leaves things pretty open does it not? So by all the fuckups that happened before the war in Iraq, all the lies to get into the war, the lies AFTER the war, and the lies about the current situation with Iran... HEY WAIT A MINUTE... was there another resolution in the US about Iran?? Similar to the 1998 Iraq plan?? I bet it exists somewhere. I just got to find out to see if the evidence is actually there. Or else I am just speculating. Yes, there is a resolution about Iran, which is why they have sanctions of the Iraq type them. Just google US Sanctions against Iran.

Exactly, and it does not bode well for our judicial sytem and coherant Canadian Laws does it?

Ah, nice try, no cigar. The facts on the ground say otherwise, but a nice bit of after the fact spin, and trying to cover tracks and nothing more. Update and more information: Now how did all this start: Now what happened after he started his investigation into what we did with Afghan prisoners, as his findings about the 3 abused men, were an incidental result of his investigation, there was NO mention or investigation of this prior by the military? This is the response he got from his first inquiry: So what is happening to Afghan detainees that canadian military personal round up? Can we say hyprocrites? As one just needs to consider the Arar case, and our now paying millions to him because the USA did the same thing to him, that Canadians are doing to Afghans. Look at how Canadians condemned the USA, for these same practises, and now we find our government is complict in the same thing. Still more: What does Amnesty International have to say? Well, needless to say it is a blight upon all Canadians. And again Hillier and the CPC put a blight upon Canadians: But Ottawa refuses to account for what happens to detainees, either in Canadian Forces custody or after they are handed off to the Afghans. Not only with that, but with openly breaking the agreement the former Canadian government signed with Afghans specifically in these important areas and indeed we are now apparently breaking the Geneva Convention as well. Here are the segments of the agreement being broken. The Participants will treat detainees in accordance with the standards set out in the Third Geneva Convention. The International Committee of the Red Cross will have a right to visit detainees at any time while they are in custody, whether held by the Canadian Forces or by Afghanistan. Visits may be delayed by a Detaining Power only as an exceptional and temporary measure for reasons of imperative military necessity. The Participants will be responsible for maintaining accurate written records accounting for all detainees that have passed through their custody. Such written records should, at a minimum, contain personal information (as far as known or indicated), gender, physical description and medical condition of the detainee, and, subject to security considerations, the location and circumstances of capture. Such written records will be available for inspection by the International Committee of the Red Cross upon request. Copies of all records relating to the detainee will be transferred to any subsequent Accepting Power should the detainee be subsequently transferred. The originals of all records will be retained by the Transferring Power. Recognizing their obligations pursuant to international law to assure that detainees continue to receive humane treatment and protections to the standards set out in the Third Geneva Convention, the Participants, upon transferring a detainee, will notify the International Committee of the Red Cross through appropriate national channels. Participants recognize the legitimate role of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission within the territory of Afghanistan, including in regard to the treatment of detainees, and undertake to cooperate fully with the Commission in the exercise of its role. No person transferred from the Canadian Forces to Afghan authorities will be subject to the application of the death penalty. http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/operations/ar...rangement_e.pdf It is quite obvious it is high time our military were pulled out of Afghanistan. Look at us, breaking a signed agreement with the Afghan people, and breaking international law and the Geneva Convention.

What are you suggesting. The Liberals where not supposed to get the books balanced? That was a higher priority then. It was the priority of the Reform Party. The Priority of the Progressive Conservatives were to continue to spend money like it grew on trees. While the 10 years of darkness is colourfull, that accompanied 10 years of balanced budgets and many years of surplus that the Government returned to the corporations in terms of tax cuts or went to pay down the debt. The military hasn't been the only neglected area, and alot of the pressure on the government of the day, came from the "right". Oh the hypocrisy of them, eh?! Hillier broke military rules, was extremely partisian, so I guess we should just do away with ALL military rules as they mean so little. If this was Hillier, or any other military leader in Canada speaking that way about a Liberal government, or a Liberal MP, the CPC/Reform crowd would have been calling for their heads. And we all know that for a certantity

Wow, I actually whole heartedly agree with you. Both on this and with your later comments about we get better governments with a minority situation. Just because some politicans can't get their minds around how to work in a minority government, and want to do what they want as opposed to what Canadians want does not mean minority governments do not work. It is something some politicians need to get used to, actually doing what Canadians want, not what their masters want them to do. The way it looks we are going to have minority governments for a good long time into the future, so we might as well have an MMP system where ALL votes count, not just 1/3.

Basically, this last poll was nothing more than a push poll, broadly worded questions, I. e. "who is most decisive", whose results really do not mean a thing. I certainly hope the CPC go forward with an election thinking this poll gives them a lead. For example the question: which party leader had the clearest vision of where he wants to take the country, Harper showed a significant lead over his rivals (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3-4 poll in brackets): Stephen Harper: 50 per cent (+ 18) Stephane Dion: 22 per cent (- 16 from when Paul Martin was leader) Jack Layton: 20 per cent (+ 1) Gilles Duceppe: 8 per cent (- 4) Not only is it a push poll question, it means little, as I too think Harper may have the clearest vision on where he wants to take the country, and would have responded yes. Why? Because it is quite clear that he wants to take this country into theo-con territory and completely erode our infrastruture, why ignoring the environment. The same goes for this question: More than half of respondents also felt that Harper is the most decisive of the party leaders. Harper: 53 per cent Dion: 19 per cent Layton: 20 per cent Duceppe: 8 per cent It again is a push poll question designed for band wagon purposes. Of course, Harper would appear more decisive, he after all is the one currently making the decisions. And again, it is not necessarily a postive supportive answer that the pollsters were getting. This potential negative response is supported by these results: Here are the results when voters were asked who was the most charismatic (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3-4 poll in brackets): Harper: 35 per cent (+ 18) Dion: 20 per cent (- 9 from when Martin was leader) Layton: 36 per cent (- 2) Duceppe: 10 per cent (- 4) Layton though suposedly down 2% is still considered the most charasmatic leader by Canadians. This down 2% is probably because of the unacceptable 5% margin of error in Ontario with only 379 people being polled. Then there is this question and responses, also not good for the CPC, and further indicate the answers received from the clearest vision and decisive questions may NOT be actual positive responses for the CPC: The best prime minister Liberals: 23 per cent Conservatives: 20 per cent NDP: 21 per cent Bloc Quebecois: 6 per cent Other/don't know/refused: 31 per cent Both Layton and Dion lead over Harper when consideration is given for the Best Prime Minister material. The margin of error in this poll is 5% in Ontario. They only polled 379 people. A huge glaring significance and wonders what the motivation for this was? But really one does not have to wonder too far, it being a push poll geared toward trying to promote a false perception for a bandwagon effect. Particularily when the real meat of the poll has been down played both here and by the CTV. and Global was even worse in it's propaganda. Then there is this: when asked how respondents would vote today, the Liberals showed a significant drop since Dion first won his party's leadership race (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3 poll in brackets): Liberals: 29 per cent (- 8) Conservatives: 34 per cent (+ 3) NDP: 14 per cent (none) Bloc Quebecois: 11 per cent (none) Green Party: 12 per cent (+ 5) They did not show a significant drop, when one considers the Ontario margin of error, it would actually show, if the margin of error was considered, that it would still be a neck in neck race, for a minority government, which is what the other recent polls have shown. What garbage and clap trap this poll was. Nothing more than propaganada to try and get a bandwagon effect.

Pffft, there can be NO debate on this topic, it started out from a completely partisan stance, and degraded from there with the initial posters commentary only to create a soap box to bash scientists of the world as being socialist. It is exactly the same thought process as the Republicans Bridge and Chism, who say evolution is a conspiracy to undermine the old testament by Jews, the very same people who wrote brought the Old Testament to goya and who regard it as part of their Holy Books. As for one poster talking of accountability, in regards to right of center political parties/centerist AKA the CPC, what a joke there is nothing accountable about Harper's government at all. And hey, guess what Canada has beenformed by socialist thought and people on the left. Who after all has ruled Canada more than those on the right. It is those one the right who have tried to suck the life blood out of the workers and actual producers of this country, and who are trying to destroy the environment for capital gains making the rich richer, at the expense of hard working Canadians.

They could not sell Canadians, the war in Afghanistan on its own merits as support for the war dropped to 35% in late December they had to figure out a way to spin it, so that they can continue to spend tax payers money in a country where our military should not be, propping up a government, that should not be propped and to have a reason, 1 amongst many future ones, to buy billions of dollars of military equipment, some needed, some not I.e. (150 k ea shells). Again nice try, use our money to try and get us to buy into a war, ooops mission according to Hillier that should've stopped when they stopped searching for Bin Laden, 2003.

Interesting, Norman Spector, long time prominent, consevative advisor has this to say about Harper's stacking the Judiciary board with partisans. http://members.shaw.ca/nspector4/OTHER2.htm And oh look another theo-con appointee: David Mosley Brown - Faith Fact and Action http://www.christianlegalfellowship.org/Co.../davidbrown.htm

Bush administration eroding of the US democratic process continues along with subverting investigations about public corruption. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7021701509.html

zactly Not zactly, at all: Hilliers words far more pointed and partisan, were: So, he pinpointed his approval, of the CPC even more firmly than his “decade of darkness”. But even that wasn’t enough, because he went on to pour out wonderful amazing partisan things about O’Connor: Hillier just couldn’t get, anymore partisan than he had been, what he forgot to mention was that it was Martin who actually got the equipment the Military in Afghanistan are using now. If he was NOT being partisan he would’ve mentioned that the resupplying of the military commenced under the Liberals. Instead, taking a page out of the CPC manual he trashed the Liberals instead. Not content with that, he actually pushed his partisanship further by saying: He completely disregarded the cuts of Mulroney, prior to 1994, not only that, his aforementioned "decade of darkness" was shored up with him specifying a date of 1994, and focused it against the Liberals, and for the CPC.

So, the USA is trying to prod Iran into something by arming people who are conducting terrorist attacks. Weapons used in attack in Zahedan, Iran come from U.S. www.chinaview.cn 2007-02-17 18:59:10 TEHRAN, Feb. 17 (Xinhua) -- Explosive devices and arsenals used in a terrorist attack in the southeastern Iranian city of Zahedan on Wednesday came from the United States, the semi-official Fars news agency reported on Saturday. Relevant documents, photographs and film footage, which show that the explosives and arsenals used in the attack were American, would soon be made public, an "informed source" was quoted as saying. On Wednesday morning, an explosive-laden car exploded in Zahedan as a bus, belonging to ground forces of Iran's Revolutionary Guards Corps, passed by, killing at least 11 people and injuring 31 others. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-02/...ent_5751122.htm

War On Terrorism: Protect them from us SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER EDITORIAL BOARD http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/304013_ciaed.html

Winning hearts and minds of Iraqis! http://www.legitgov.org/ While:

Actually, it is not 1 representative it is, those Republican Representatives. There are 2 in question 1 from georgis and 1 from Texas. And the memo went out on Chism's office stationary as evidence to get rid of tax supported evolution. And most certainly if the Bill passes all other representatives, who voted in favour, are concurring. And it is expected to pass. Personally, I think this is bordering on, if not, anti-semitism, that the states are allowing, or perhaps sponsoring. And apparently I am not alone: But it gets weirder and even more inconsistent: http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/leg...tlegevolve.html So, we are to believe/understand that Bridges, who is staunchly evangelical, did not offend any one because he did not send the memo out, talk about shifting sand verbage? Even though it is his memo and his framework for his laws in Georgia. Moreover, the memo was sent to ever state house of representatives that are Republican and NONE have denounced it for the bigotry and insanity it denotes.

Just when one thought bizarro combinations of politics and fundamentalist secular religion in the USA was coming to an end, you see this: Warren "Anti-CopernicaChisum" by: Glenn Smith Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 19:38:25 PM CST Chisum has no problem believing that GOP interests revolve around the pocketbooks of its wealthy contributors. Georgia Lawmaker: Jews Secretly Behind Evolution He passed along the memo from kindred spirit Mr. Bridges, the man who is/was the sponsor of bills to undermine the teaching of evolution in Georgia. Who believes: Copy of the bizarro memo Rep Warren Chism and Representative Ben Bridges also believe: Bridges, the sponsor of bills to undermine the teaching of evolution in Georgia, referred Texas lawmakers to a web site dedicated to opposing both the theory of evolution and that the earth revolves around the sun. Now remember, they are calling eviolution a Jewish conspiracy to discredit the Old Testament, the very same testament that is actually written by Jews. Jews, who in fact believe in it themselves. How can they fail to see the inconsistency and spurious nature of this belief or premise? The Non-Moving Earth & Anti-Evolution Web Page The Fair Education Foundation Inc. Exposing the False Science Idol of Evolutionism, and Proving the Truthfulness of the Bible from Creation to Heaven... - since 1973 - Marshall Hall, Pres. A religious conspiracy eh, brought to the world by the very same people who brought the Old Testament to the world. And Rep Chism, who is the Chair for the House Appropriations Committee who believes in and fosters this nonsense is about to do this to the middle class Texans: Gravity (Pft!), night and day (bah!), biological reproduction (ugh!). Who needs such immoral ideas corrupting our kids? No, spend the money on those with more visible signs of God's Blessing. The Elect. The ones with the money.

New thoughts on Iraq, are the USA cannot, and is not, looking after its military personal who have been injured in either Iraq or Afghanistan. It seems once they are of no use, the US admin could care less. It is a shameful treatment of those they insist people should hold in the highest regard. Soldiers Face Neglect, Frustration At Army's Top Medical Facility By Dana Priest and Anne Hull Washington Post Staff Writers Sunday, February 18, 2007; Page A01 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7021701172.html

That makes a lot of sense. If we have two parallel systems, the same number of doctors and nurses will be able to provide twice as much care. Of course Sweden and France have 50+% more doctors and nurses but that doesn't make a difference at all. It's privately paying for service that makes the difference. You are quite correct, it is privately paying for it makes the difference, it seems they still want the funded system, they just want to jump to the head of the line because they can afford to. No one is preventing them from spending money to stop the pain, if they want to spend their private money on health care then go to the states. I would like geoffery to prove that the Supreme Court agrees with him regarding private health care in Canada and queue jumping because you have money.

But I hear the word "nigger" being used all the time by people. As for derogatory term's based on action's, what action's, the derogatory term was used for an entire occupation. I think you need some help, with the reading part that is since everything need's to be clarified for you. No, because it's true, you try to take the moral highground by taking words out of context. Then if you here the word "nigger" being used a lot, perhaps you are hanging out with the wrong type of people. Just because the people you know use it, does mean that it is correct to do so, unlesss of course it the Black community you hear using it. Just because you think/claim that I took it out of context, does not mean that I did. Can blue this is the sentence you used : I asked for clarification, and never accused you of anything other than minimizing child rape to the equivalent of name calling. Again, I was NOT discussing child pornography with you, I was discussing your trivialization of it. You are trying to shift the words to suit your purpose and nothing more. Fair enough I suppose, because how does one support one's belief that child rape is the moral equivalent of name calling. You are bringing a dimension that was not in discussion between us. I never said you supported peodophiles. All that Id did was call you on making the moral equivalency of name calling = child rape. That is not a smear. Claiming victim hood in attempt to deflect away from you making a seriously flawed moral equivalency is nothing more than a deflection, or an inability to follow the course of the discussion. never said you supported child pornography , you can say that as many times as you want and it still does not make it true. Also, I never participated in the jock sniffing thread, nor looked at it even, nor responded to any commentary upon it. George Bush and and jock sniffing in the 1 topic sentence was more than enough to detract me from participating in anything about it all. Now seriously, I am done with being lured from the topic of thread, and into, disengenious discussions where you make false accusations against me and I then feel forced to defend myself from your spurious accusations. So, I will refrain from falling into such things again and in future will overlook any of your partisan commentary, as it simply is not worth the effort.

If taken out of context. Actually, the comment I made was a general one with regards to who built this country Catchme. I didn't even mention the military, but the sacrifice of others. Accusing me of supporting pedophilia in another thread however was an accusation made by you. Once again, simply because of semantic's. So once again, bring about your assault. You used the term twice, in 2 different contexts. Then tried to brush it off as being apathy. Please do not lie, I made NO accusations about you being a pedeophile, ever. Nor have I have been assaulting you, again a mistruth. calling you one your your words of ccalling canadians pathetic yes. But no matter, it has no bearing on this topic, and I let myself get side tracked from the topic. When the real issue here is Harper using our money to try and brainwash us into believing war is good peace is bad.