Catchme

LOLOLOL http://www.macleans.ca/homepage/magazine/a...5_103074_103074

Harper brushes off judicial critics on appointments CAMPBELL CLARK "A democratic country is in trouble when the judges warn that the government is putting their independence in peril,"

So, now let's see, we have the RCMP, leaking documents that were lies that changed the course of the election, then we have the RCMP refusing to give the judge in the Air India inquiry any information on that documents. The judge had got documents alright, all blacked out. Then 3 days later, we have a leak to the Vancouver Sun, of information that a judge could not get from the RCMP. And in this mix, we have a NEW acting head of the RCMP, Steven Harper's NEW National Secutiy Advisor. Yes, for the first time ever we have one of those, no deputy Prime Minsiter, but a NSA. How American of Harper, eh? Anyway, the NEW acting head of the RCMP says that she really wants the sunset clauses extended, but refuses to give the judge any info, who is investigating in the Air India Inquiry. So we have margaret Bloodworth playing Condi Rice We have Hillier playing Rumsfeld And we have Sheila Fraser auditor general dumping an environment minister. As Salutin further says: It also has a U.S. ring, like getting his own NSA. Attacking Liberals for being weak on terror is a classic Karl ("Bush's brain") Rove tactic.

Ibbitson

This topic is not about Martin and having a New Years dinner with Tamils in 2000, this about Harper's treacherous lying actions. Something which I have noted you and other CPC supporters avoided discussing. Harper made the Tamil Tigers terrorists, then a year later accuses the Liberals of having terrorist ties. Axworthy, a Liberal, did stop fund raising back in 2001, do you not read things fully? Joe clark took exception to the actions even. Why would any Asian ethic person vote for the CPC, considering the racist implication inherent in Harper's actions?

I don't know how conservative a judge Harper has to appoint to determine that locking people up without telling them why or charging them with anything does not violate the Charter. This very telling as to why the 2 sunset clauses need to be sunset, as they are dealing with this very thing. Being held, without charges, not knowing why, but yet being compelled to provide evidence that you did something wrong. It would seem that Harper is all about wanting to violate the Charter buy his support of the 2 clauses that violate; the Charter and International Laws and rights, and indeed common sense.

Yes, it seems Harper and the CPC, so think they have a right to violate perhaps most anything so they can play dirty politics. Because there is a bigger breach than just House rules that has occurred. The information the Van Sun and Harper used, was sealed and secret information, for reasons of National Security, that was somehow, by someone, leaked to the Vancouver Sun. One wonders why Harper is not inestigating who broke National Security measures and linked the information? Oh, right, he used the leaked information, why would he investigate who broke National Security? More on this treacherous action in this thread: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....5&gopid=189049&

It wasn't the first time and it won't be the last time that..ministers have been at events or fundraisers ... However, linking the minister as supportive of terrorism is a smear tactic. It is actually more than just a smear tactic. There are lots of factors at play in this dirty ugly political Karl Rove move, played by Harper. Housekeeping Details: Tamil Tigers were NOT declared a terrorist organization until Harper made them so last year. How nice eh, make an organization a terrorist organization, and then wait a year, until you think people have forgotten it was your government who declared them a terrorist organziation, to declare your opposition as having ties to a terrorist organization. This begs the question; did Harper make them a terrorist organization so he could say the Liberals had ties to terrorist organizations? The 1st truth is: In 2000, when Martin was Finance Minister, he went to a New Years Tamil dinner as key note speaker, and NOT all Tamil people are members of the Tamili Tigers. But past that even, remember the Tamili Tigers were NOT classified as a terrorist organization until Harper did it last year, and 2001 had not happened. So, in fact, there were none of the terrorist orgaizations, who are currently listed today as being ones, considered so then. At that time, there was a concerted effort being made, by Canada and other countries around the world, to foster relations between the Sri Lanka government and the Tamil Tigers to stop the incredible violence occurring and children being made into soldiers. Most of the diplomacy was going on at dinners and conferences and by meeting with people of influence, who can make/foster change without more violence and chaos occurring. That is how diplomacy and soft power works, and that was what gave Canada its "soft power" around the world. A much more effective power, than bullying, lies, breaches of Nationl Security and dirty politics. Diplomacy is a very much different thing than, how the CPC perceive things should be done, who seem to think think that smears/lies, playing politics with National Security and blundering around the planet causing chaos and blowing peoples to bit in retribution, is "real" power. It isn't it is only destructive and evil. The 2nd truth: The Liberal government at that time, even though they were fostering cease fire negotiations through diplomacy, were moving to block the Tigers from fund raising in Canada. It was Lloyd Axworthy LIBERAL Foreign Affairs Mnister who was leading the charge against them fund raising in Canada. And it was the Liberals who ordered the RCMP investigations into the affairs of the Tamil Tigers. The measures that were put in place by Axworthy to stop this fund raising were decried by Joe Clark. So, it is more than a bit disenguous of the CPC, to try and say the Liberals were supportive of the Tamil Tigers, or any other terrorist organization in 2000, or indeed any years beyond that. Next Truth: It was the Liberals who started the Air India investigation in the first place, it was Brian Mulroney who refused to do so. For the CPC to try now and come back and say the Liberals want to block the investigation, is beyond insanity. These are created lies to try smear the Liberals because they do not support further use of 2 sunset clauses, that should never have been in the first place. Next truth: Harper and, the Van Sun, tried to use Hayer's saying how shocked he was to find out that Saini, Baines father in law knew the man who shot and wounded his father. That's interesting spin, because Hayer's father was also part of the Khalistanis, and Hayer's father was not just a supporter of the Khalistanis he even wrote a book praising the Khalistan movement and the leader of the movement. Something that Baines father in law never did. Hayer's father also knew the man who shot him, so it is highly unlikely that Hayer is shocked about anything, seeing how involved with the Kalistanis his FATHER was.. Nor was Baines father in Law found by CSIS, or the RCMP to have any connection to the Air India affair, the only thing that ever occured was, that Baines father in law was once interviewed by the RCMP as part of the full investigation that lead to charges and convictions, conducted by the Liberal government. In actual fact, Hayer himself, who the CPC and Van Sun have used to try and smear Baines/Liberals, has CLOSER ties to the Kalistanis, who killed his father than Baines has, which is actually none. Conclusion: Harper's faulty logic appears to be, that because Baines father in law, was once interviewed by the RCMP 21 years ago, both he and the Liberals are connected to terrorists. That fact that Harper is making guilt, by the flimiest of extensions, then Harper himself, and the CPC are by then quilty of the same thing, by the same type of extension. Harper and the Van Sun's obvious connection to Hayer, makes them then connected to the Kalistanis terrorists themselves, and then they also would be even more closely connected to other crimes of: trade securities fraud, illegal smuggling and marijuanna grow ops. We all know the tale of John Reynolds, and accused in a Vancouver Stock Exchange sercurities fraud, then there was Gurdish Mangat who was a Canadian Alliance candidate in the 2000 election, that was charged with deeds to shield a drug ring in 2004. and there was the CPC BC Interior candidate Derek Zeissman, who has been charged with smuggling. Larger Issue at Hand The bigger and perhaps equally as concerning issue is; Harper's playing politics with National Security WHO leaked sealed RCMP and government documents to the Vancouver Sun form the CPC government, or the RCMP? What HARPER and the Van Sun used, were secert and sealed RCMP documents. The families from the Air India Inquiry were just decrying last week; "why were all the government documents to the investigation blacked out." They were told it was because the investigation documents were sealed and secret because of Natrional Security.

Will the real Hillier please stand up, it seems he is of the same ilk as those he partisanly supported. Hillier is apparently real good at talking out of both sides of his mouth, or has he been coached on what he should say? Found more than I was bargaining for when I went researching Hillier as promised. Is this Hillier? or is this Hillier? and then there is this Hillier comment. Some interesting thoughts by this blogger: http://www.killingtrain.com/archives/2005_08.html The 2nd is a link to the propaganda being fed to the military regarding the CPC governing, and their promised actions to the military in return for their support. http://www.conservative.ca/EN/1091/39090 http://milnewstbay.pbwiki.com/CPC%202006%20Defence And so much the sweet words here saying, that the Canadian military was not war mongering control the world type. And so much for a supposed acknowlegement that Canadians are not warlike etc etc. Found a nice tag line of one of the members at army.ca called Reccesoldier: http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,57697.0.html It seems that Can Blue's calling Canadians pathetic could be typical thinking by some of the Canadian military personal. Then there is this pap below, that is being fed to them, by an opium dealing, torturer, woman oppressing creep, that was trained by the CIA, no wonder they are so supportive of Karzi as opposed to Canadians who pay their wages and who they are allegedly defending.

link? cite it? proof? More drive by smears without citing proof, really trying to work on making it appear as if the only good people in Ottawa are the CPC, something which could not be further from the truth. As evidenced today yet again by Harper.

The MSM will soon be reporting on the lying lies of the Bush administration regarding Iran, and will be exposing how Iran actually wanted, and sought, to enter into negotiations with the USA, starting way back in 2003. Only the Bush admin ignored them because it did not fit in with their plans to attack Iran. They were/are fully prepared to attack Iran, just like they did with Iraq, based upon lies.

No accounting for the hypocrisy and bigotry present in the USA. And I guess we know were the new surge troops are coming from. Do we really want our military personals lives to be put into these peoples hands? http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/

I don't either, that was my point.... No, but I do believe that this MP will not support the legislation in order to get his father law out of being questioned. You never want to piss of the in laws, especially not one that is being questioned about a terrorist attack. geoffery, respectfully you are slandering both the MP Nav Baines and his father in law. Baines' father in law, has never been charged wiith having terrorist associations, his father in law knew 1 or 2 who were charged, and 21 years ago, he was questoned about what he knew about the terrorists who were charged. 21 years ago the father in law fully disclosed what he knew, to the RCMP, without any laws forcing him to do so. He would testify today without any laws forcing him to do so. Baines was 9 years old when this all happened, to say he would not vote for keeping a temporary measure to protect his father in law, from something, that his father in law does not need protecting from, is ludicrous, and slanderous, at the very least. Harper owes Baines an apology, the Members of Parliament an apology and one to ALL Canadians. This is equivalent, or worse actually, than accusing Martin of being a pedeophile because he is slandering, all the MP's, and indeed disrespecting ALL Canadians, with the complicit support of the Vanacouver Sun and its owners. Letters of outrage and demanding an apology, need to be sent to the SUN and to Harper by all rational and concerned Canadians..

Wonderful, we now have a brilliant compare to a disease that is killing millions around the world, and leaving millions of orphans, to skiing accidents. Moreover, we are being told, those who are involved with skiing accidents are more important, than those who die from AIDS, or at the very least we should be more concerned about them than we are AIDS victims. (sarcasm in case some tried to twist it) Plus, if so many are dying from alpine accidents or need rescuing it can't really be that "healthy" eh? Why fund AIDS research, because after all, it is self inflicted, and how dare those dirty promiscuous women, who are getting it from men, who either do not know they have it or are not disclosing they have it, want funding for research that would help them and the millions of others around the world recover/prevent a killer disease. (sarcastic for those who would try to twist words) And it seems you overlooked, that any research would help others all over the world. But of course why help them because after all it is their own faults for getting AIDS too right? Of course, there is the obvious discrepancy, where geoffery says that, if we funded alpine rescue teams, and transmitter locaters, more lives would be saved, even though, according to stats, he presented, that show over 60 more die a year from AIDS, than deaths that occur from alpine accidents. I guess that those 36 that die a year from alpine accidents are = to the 93 who die from AIDS. Canada, and the provinces/municipalities do subsidize SAR teams across Canada, and it costs about 30-40k for 1 rescue, incurred by taxpayers. It seems that, in fact, if one does the math, more money is already being outlayed for SAR than for AIDS. Talk about special interests group wanting more than their share. Then there is the fact that those who take part in alpine sports, have enough money to pay for their own transmitters. Say nothing of how much 1 SAR costs for 1 person. I know, better yet, let's save millions of dollars per year, lives, wildlife and the environment by ceasing alpine sporting activities altogether. Do you know geoffery that over 50% of women who are in jail have histories of being physically and/or sexually abused by men? Do you know that most women are in jail for drug related charges or prostitution? Do you know there was a direct correlation between addictions and physical/sexual abuse by men against other males and females? Do you know that millions of women and children of dying from AIDS around the world because they were raped by infected males? Do you know that many more middle aged women are getting AIDS because it has been brought home by their life long partners? Do you know that there are health care workers/dentists/paramedics infected with HIV because of on the job hazards, and that there are about 1000 of them per year in Canada? Yes, there are less deaths now, than there used to be, because of research, and even then you are not taking into consideration the billions in associated costs to the system for those that survive and have to live on cocktails of medicines for the rest of their lives. Over all, your compare and analysis was short sighted,and ill thought out, at the very least. I will not even say what the worst could be. Suffice it to say, you give a clear picture of what Harper and his apologists feel about AIDS Here is a link to current stats in BC and Canada not too hard to find if one looked, it was just a google that said; stats HIV Canada, that gave me 2006 results. http://www.aidsvancouver.org/pdf/library/h...stics_oct06.pdf http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-r...7/dr2724ea.html

Glad to see you agree with the fact that Canadians are not war like peoples. However, I do not believe in any more of a dangerous world than what we always have done. And a good deal of the danger has been, and continues to be, manufactured by those with an agenda. Selling false fear to people is reprehensible, I hope you are not doing that. Having more wars will NOT lessen any dangers. Again who do we need defending from? Hillier said we were on a mission, not a war. Perhaps that is a problem in perceptions? We are NOT supposed to be in a war in Afghanistan. If doing your jobs, contains actions that break International and Canadian laws, it is your individual responsibility, as a military person, to speak out about it and have it investigated. If you are not doing that, you are not doing your jobs as required and set out in law. Moreover, we are speaking out about, and we are blaming the politicians, only to be accused of NOT supporting the troops. Sorry it can't be both ways. Oh please! Well, that is really not a good recommendation, seeing as how, the 1st Gulf War, Bosnia and Kosovo, are what initially infuriated me, having the government, either Liberal or CPC, using our military as a private army, and tax payers dollars, for oil and US hegmony is unacceptable. Having said that, I have been reading up on Hillier, and my attitude is/was softening. But I am again rethinking that. As, if Hillier really was on the outs with Harper and O'Connor his butt would be gone from his job.

The same could be said for the NDP and the Tories. canuck E stan missed some pertinent quotes, and misquoted, in his attempt to further the dirty politics campaign initiated by Harper and the Vancouver Sun. * added on, was not in the article to give clarity to the biased Sun article And its pretty interesting that Hayer also said this: when indeed his own fellow BC Liberal MLAs were standing in front of a Khalistan sign just last week. Wonder if he was as disturbed about that as about Paul Martin standing in front of the banner? It would seem not, as he made no comment to condemn them.It would seem the SUN and Harper et al are believing that people will just see the Liberal portion of the propaganda, and will perceive them as "Liberals" when indeed the BC Liberals and their supporters are ALL CPC supporters. Which is truly a laugh if they do believe Canadians are that stupid. Everyone in BC knows for sure that the BC Liberals are the CPC federally. It would only be those who are being exposed to the Sun article on line that may not know. The slithering hyporcrisy of it all, and fabrications for propaganda are beyond belief.

Again, Baines father in law spoke frankly and openly, 21 years ago to the RCMP, during their investigation. He was NOT compelled to do so back then, this was 17 long years before any anti-terrorism measure was put in place, there is NO reason to believe the RCMP would need to compell him to later. It was a slithering, slimey drive by shooting by Harper. Where he tried to play up on a erroneous notion that the Liberals are tied to terrorism and are trying to cover it up. This type of thing may play well with the whacked out crowd that believes "Liberals" are satan's spawn trying to take over the world, in some type of global conspiracy, but it is not playing well, in real Canada. And this is saying nothing about his inability to conduct himself like a Prime Minister of a country.

Ah, that grand Conservative appreciation of democracy rearing its ugly head once again. Everyone is entitled to your opinion I see. So we have right wings stating that Canadians are pathetic, that Canadians take everything for granted as if it is a sin, and as if they do not, and now we have one advocating the murder of fellow Canadians that actually have brains.

Typical conservative response...it's ok for the Conservatives to be unethical because at least they aren't as bad as the Liberals back when Chretien was in charge. I wonder how much longer conservatives will attempt to fall back on that one? As long as they are the "New" government, and your observations quite true.

Apparently the opinions of people working in the World Trade Center don't count. No, their opinions ceased to matter the minute GWB stopped looking for Osama in 2003. Not that their opinions really mattered in Canadian military deployment in the first place. And please refrain from responding about the 20 odd that were Canadians. because we were NOT there for the purposes of retribution.

Yes, I was surfing around right wing hell blog sites today, reading their commentary on this, and the general impresson was that it is just a special interest group, that sypphoned money away from real diseases that people are dying from. When it was pointed out, by the few not requiring an exorcism there, that it was not just a disease of gays, the response was 'too bad" if other heteros got it, as they were being just as promiscuous as the "fags".

The truth is more problematic, then a "coverup". Not sure what you are meaning? I am saying that the conflict is real. That it is not a coverup derived by spin doctors for our consumption. Like any issue, you have to read some articles that go a ways back. Goose Bay, Trenton, JTF2. And how Hillier says OConner is suggesting Civilian Defence For Political Reasons. Their is alot of truth in the statement. Likewise, Hillier is being labelled as campaigning for his next job. I am not fond Hillier. But what you are labelling Hillier being biased about, is more about Hilliers attitude then his actual bias. Not that he doesn't have one. But at the end of the day, he used his typical colourful style to speak about cut backs in the 90s. Somethat that other government departments have pointed out in their fields during this same period, without any flare. Hillier has a vision of the military and where he wants it to be. To heck with anyone whom disagrees with him. O'Conner included. Hillier came to see us doing our pre-deployment training. He spoke to everyone, then took us officers aside and had some words. There is not doubt in my mind he is the best General I have ever met in 18 years of service. He is a soldier, not a politician, that makes peole nervous. Canadians in the know are more used to seeing a Baril, or De Chastiline as the CDS, a quiet "lap-dog". Hillier is a combat leader, more in line with the CDS generals that ran the military in the 1960's & '70's, fromer WW2 officers. You cannot believe everything you read in the press. The media is mostly speculation, not fact. Nobody here, or in the media is present at high level defence meetings, so it is speculation. O'Conner & Hillier are BOTH combat officers, from the Canadian Armoured Corps. I have met both of these men, had dinner with O'Conner. I have full faith in their leadership. I would follow Hillier to hell & back. You do not see military members complaining about them... As for the so called rift, media speculation. There is not doubt they have differences, they're human remember. Our defence policy has always been Canada First, this is nothing new. You start defending Canada on the beaches of Europe and the Middle East, ot the beaches of Nova Scotia........ What do we have to be defended from? Not that you're post was not fascinating, as it was, and I will definitely do some research, but it is going to take a lot of convincing to revise my opion of Hillier. But there is room, and I am still digesting his vision of what he wants the military to be. There was a time that I believed in that vision, or one similar, however, since then, I have become more informed as to the ways and whys of creating wars and military expansionism. Canada is not a war like nation, it has gone and done what it perceived to be it's duty, when asked and when needed. The military of today, appears to want Canada to be militaristic in nature. That seems more like ego gratification to me, rather than rational thinking responsible citizens of the world. I find it very problematic

Do you really not trust the Liberals that much? I didn't draw that conclusion and I wouldn't trust them with a penny. Do not know what you are on about, never said a thing about the Liberals and not trusting them, oh the shifting sands of it all. Goodale explains what Harper has not and what he is trying to imply on Mike Duffy: Mike Duffy And apparently Harper "smuggled" the clipping in. That he did so, on a unrelated issue to the discussion on the sunset clauses, in a QP about the judicial committee plainly denotes he did not want to viewing public hear the debacle with his interference with the judiciary.

Thanks for the Link. I Concur with your assessment of Nuclear Proliferation and Pakistan. Oh, so you are sayiing we should have our military stay in Afghanistan because of Pakistans nukes?

Again, you have no discourse other than trying to trash the poster, as opposed to the content, as is the case with many Harper/CPC apologists who post here. Tis a commentary in itself, that you/others do so repeatedly, and it is just as short sighted and lacking in self reflection as what Harper did. Harper broke parliamentary rules, he made a mockery of the HoC, he made false inferrences and as you said he is childish. Just his childishness, gives one pause for concern, with him being in the PMO. Let alone considering the full implications of his behaviour. Only the truly partisan, and those equally lacking in poor judgement, would find it acceptable conduct and try to excuse it as being worthy.