madmax

Me too. We just had the biggest waste of time and money this country has seen in a 3 day photo opp. And the message is lost because some clowns throw stones at storefront windows. All around It looks like the G20/G8 fiasco is a complete waste of time and money.

Thats interesting..... and 100% inaccurate. Mike Harris put the Mentally Ill on the streets that were already in housing. Mike Harris put thousands on the streets. And yes it did save the Province a ton of money. So much money, no Provincial Leader has tried to reverse the decision of 1995. The Year Mike Harris took office. Unfortuneately for Ontario, We had a string of Progressively bad leaders. Peterson: Arrogance Rae: No Balls, Too Much Brain, No Courage. Harris:To Many Balls not enough Brains, Eves: To indecisive McGuinty: Lying from Day one and continuing. I am not a fan of any of these Premiers. But no need to get the facts blurred.

I don't know of a time when this hasn't been the case in Canadas History. While you may think its serious, and it is serious, it is also business as usual in Canada. This isn't suprising, nor a revelation. But it does make good headlines and I do wonder why Csis would put it out there??? I am glad they did, we as a society need to take control of those foreign influences head on. Don't hold your breathe. This story will fade.

The CPC have seats in EveryProvince but NFLD and broad support. The NDP have Static Support and Seats in Every Province. The Liberals have medium support and do not have seats in Many Provinces let alone in Rural regions which are dominated by the NDP and CPC. The Liberals are not the only true Federalist party left. The PCs did not "Explode" into the Reform Party. The Reform party with a populist movement created in the same molding as its predecessor the Social Credit Party. Reform gained votes from people who had previously voted PC or NDP. THe BQ was formed with the defections of PCs MPs from the Mulroney Government as well as Liberal MPs and Activists in Quebec. With the creation of the Conservative Party the party has surpassed the "Liberal Federal Party". While Liberals and Conservatives have historically fought over Centralization vs Decentralization, the Liberals under Trudeau were the first to try to enact a Centralized Government. Even then, Quebecs regional interests were safeguarded while the Wests weren't. Which is why its a Celebrated event when a Liberal MP is elected west of Thunderbay. Both Chretian and Martin moved away from Centralization towards Decentralization, including downloading to Provinces, reducing federal control in Provincial matters (unlike Trudeau) and moved away from National programs. Today, most will argue there isn't much difference between the two parties. And that is historically the case. Government and Government in waiting. The main difference is the PCs are better in opposition then the Liberals.

ToroKaka Liberal MPs voted against women and in support of the Conservative government.

How many times do the Liberals have to change their leadership before they benefit? And are you thinking the CPC could bring in the Next Stockwell day in order to give the LPC a shot at government?

Explain how this happened?

This isn't helping your case. No, infact they didn't before. But Liberals appear to be to thick to understand the problem, which is where the problem lies. You just proved my point. Thank you. I look forward to the new Red Book. Correct. Fiscally responsible also refers to Adscam. Stealing from the EI fund to the tune of $48Billion and being responsible by downloading to the PRovinces. Yes, it was a great shell game while it lasted.IRonically, the Conservatives can't Balance books with those same schemes. The NDP has never held federal government so there is either no facts to base that on, or you are going on the Provincial NDP record. The NDP Fiscal record is superior to the LPC and the CPC according to all data gathered and not including TommyDouglas 5 Consecuteve Terms of Government and balanced books. Not sure what you are getting at... IIRC the LPC adscam gave the BQ a nice 2nd wind as well as allowed for the CPC to get some footing in the Province while the NDP grab a toehold. I do. Do you realize how silly this comment is.... Hardly. The LPC has their papers, and the CPC has their papers. The only thing hypocritical is Liberal Whining, when they have corporate Canada and National Media behind them and still complain. I believe those were all the reasons he was chosen in the first place. I was thinking..... Since its clear that the CPC are going to win the next election. Lets just skip it and have Harper our Prime Minister and then the LPC can choose their next leader. Ironically, you talk a better game then the LPC. The Liberals didn't enact Gay Marriage until under a MINORITY GOVERNMENT, not while they held a Majority or when these Marriages were coming to the forefront. People were being Married in Ontario under the Harris Conservative Government. The Liberals didn't uphold anything regarding Gay Marriage without the help of the BQ whom you dismiss and the NDP. Gay Marriage has been upheld under 3 different PrimeMinisters of 3 Consecutive Governments. Regardless, the Liberals have done a great job of abandoning its "Progressive" voice on women. I met with a group of women on Saturday. The are actually Progressive Conservatives and Liberals who are uniting it appears to fight once again for womens rights. And their comments on Ignatieff were none to flattering. Perhaps the LPC policy is to surrender everything so they can fight for it again. Kinda like the CPC gun Registery. The gift that keeps giving. Seriously. You have said more then the LPC and even then. There is nothing coming from the Red team that has any substance of truth or conviction.

Also when I made this poll, its not all that clear that you do have choice. You can vote I am a Conservative or I am a Liberal and leave it at that. You can also vote for multiple outcomes. Its just a fun poll and like I said, the outcome so far has surprised me both in vote pattern and comments. ITs why I like MLW.

This thread has went way better then I expected. Keep the comments coming. Its been great reading! I have enjoyed all the posts here.

Molly, While you and I disagree on many things, I hate to say you are wasting your time pointing out the obvious facts. The difference between fiscally responsible people such as yourself, who value money and legitimate expenses and those defending the G8/G20 Boondoggle is that for some, fiscal responsibility and good governance takes a backseat to Party loyalty.

Love your tatoo

Please stop talking like a Liberal or in twisted speak. While there is room for misunderstanding on forums, I think I have been pretty clear. Yeah, and Mike Duffys a Senator. He may have skills. They are not political skills. I believe Canadians want democracy. The LPC forgot about that when he was Appointed Leader in the name of expediency. Exactly. Which is probably why there is a problem in LPC land. I look forward to hearing about them. Wow!!! Is that ever different from the other parties. Unfortuneately there is so little here, that Scribblet won't even need to comment. But seriously, how you can't seem to understand that Dions Polling data is similar to Ignatieffs is beyond me. Dion was likeable if not goofy. Ignatieff is not likeable. Choosing between two unlikeable leaders.... Harper and Ignatieff, people will go with the one then know vs the interloper.

You might want to take note that Harper Ran against the "weakest" Liberal leader in history and couldn't win an election. While that is true, it was only a period in time as the "weakest" Liberal leader in History appears to be Ignatieff. His polling numbers are no better then Dions and He speaks perfect English, something that Dion didn't have as an asset. Which tells me this perfect English speaking communicator and leader is in big trouble.

Interesting article in the Star suggesting that the Liberals and Conservatives are more alike then different. http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/821970--walkom-tories-are-the-real-coalition-partners-for-liberals I believe a majority of Canadians (not partizan hacks) would support a Liberal Conservative Merger. Answer this poll as best as you can.

Mike Harris used the same trick.

The CPC are excellent spin doctors. Waste is good waste when its them wasting our money. This is a great waste of money. Look at CPC MPs lining up and saying.. This is a great waste of money. If roles were reversed, the CPC would be COUGHING UP A LUNG from screaming so loud about the waste and the boondoggle this photo op has created. Everyone knows that the CPC are full of it. Luckily for the CPC they have lost of it to throw around.

Don't count on it. Their are "principles" and "Core" values. Erm. This is the Liberal party we are talking about. What on earth are you talking about. No party has there platform out now, nor are is anyparty talking about one. The Liberal Principles seeem to be MIA or perhaps they are joined at the hip with the CPC principles. He doesn't have it because he hasn't had to EARN any of it. The LPC dropped their principles for expediency and choose someone not up the job. No history in politics. No history in the country. No history in holding a principle. No history in leadership. No History in organization. So the question needs to be asked. What were the Liberals thinking? Leadership conventions with no leadership race. Policy conventions were policies aren't discussed. Idea Forums where Ideas are immediately tossed into the wastebasket. So.. Where do the liberals stand on .... ANYTHING!!! The only difference between the LPC and the CPC is the LPC who drives the fake boat on the fake lake.

Thats awesome.... We got any of those gunboats?

There isn't going to be an election TODAY. And the CPC have all the time in the world to plan and message a campaign. And they will have a well messaged campaign. The CPC is a well oiled machine with a squeaky leader who needs a little lubricant to get to the finish line with a majority. The LPC is a machine without oil. The whole mechanism is squeaking. Parts of it work, lots of it is dysfunctional. Once the campaign begins, the vacant lot will become apparent. Look how easily a partisan hack can make such a provocative thread title and there is little coming to kill or address this nonsense head on. It almost gives the thread title legitimacy. Like mentioned elsewhere, why end with the LPC, lets do a favour and continue. Canadians were only frightened of the coalition because the CPC shit their pants when they saw their power disolving and needed to create a panic to avoid a panic. To clever by half they CPC nearly tossed away their government and luckily and smartly got it back under control. But it was the CPC that pointed the weapon and shot their own foot and the CPC that applied the tourneqy to their wound. The rediculous coalition messaging has no resonance as you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time. And that can be taken as a statement for both the PRO and CON coalition parties messaging. The LPC is in trouble. Infact, it is very probable the LPC will be reduced in seat count, although not by many. And it is very probable the CPC will increase in seatcount, but not by many. The LPC need not be destroyed, but it does need to be put out of its misery. If the CPC wacknuts and there crazy policies went to the wastebucket, the LPC would be merging in a heartbeat. OR more importantly the LPC doesn't have those crazy nutbars that cost the CPC a majority. But the LPC lacks a leader, policy and vision. In effect. Its not a party but a club. Compared to the CPC which is a club supported by a party.

You forgot about their Navy...

ROTFLMAO.... Nice Pitch....

I snipped out alot. But.... Logic like this isn't going to get any reaction. But it is one of the best posts in this thread.

Thank you Army Guy. To bad those in the Military doing the leg work abroad are taking a backseat in this Security Boondoggle for the G8 here in Canada. The Billions being spent on the weekend photo op are Billions spnt like Candy, while the Military always has to be begging for funding and tools to do the the job of defending the nation and enforcing foreign policy decisions. To those that think there is no threat, only proves that our military does a good job or that some people have a False sense of security. Comparing the post above regarding a lack of threats and Federal Government monies spent on the G8/20 I'd say we are witnessing two visions not reflective of realistic the situation at hand. The Feds are blowing money on smokescreen maginotline security. While someone believes there is no chance of conflict. Perhaps people have no idea that our soldiers are currently engaged in combat and some have made the ultimate sacrifice.

Why nothing happene to Bev Desjarlais. She spoker her mind. Went on her principles and ramained a sitting NDP MP. NDP MPs are not protected, similar to Chuck Cadman etc, and she was challenged for the nomination. Bev Desjarlias said she made her vote based upon the support within the community. The community needed to come to the Nomination meeting and back her up. Unfortuneately for her, she lost. For Cadman, his nomination meeting was hijacked and he was crushed at the nomination meeting with full blessing and support of the Conservative party. Chuck Cadman also voted based on the will of the people. When it came time to run, Cadman and Desjarlais ran as independants. Cadman obviously did have the support of the people as he Defeated all parties, Conservative, NDP and Liberal and took his seat as an independant. Desjarlais ran as a independant and her support was not that strong and quite Frankly Niki Ashton who challenged Desjarlis in the nomination doubled Desjarlis vote and the Liberals won the seat. So it wasn't like Desjarlis just lost a squeaker to the Liberals. Ashton then went on to Crush the Liberal incumbent and is likely the best MP Churchill has had in sometime and she will continue to serve well. So only those who didn't support Desjarlis in the first place are doing the whining today and thinking there is something there that will stick. Best those people look in there own backyards. Especially when respected Conservatives are driven out of the party caucus because they held their principles and trusted the Conservative promises. Meanwhile. Put a fork in Kinesella... this guy is TOAST!!!