madmax

Our prisons have nothing in common with Afghan Prisons holding detainees. Afghanistan is a ISLAMIC state. The laws are/can be stricter then the Taliban. The Northern Alliance has some bad additions in the government. Warlords and Mafia corruption has replaced the Tyranny and Stability provided by the Taliban. Women aren't much better under any circumstance in Afghanistan. Torturing Prisioners isn't going to change womens rights.This has nothing to do with poor choices of the current government or the past one. The above statement is very bizarre. Such ignorant thinking is detrimental to the efforts in Afghanistan. It was such ridiculous and ignorant assumptions that allowed for Abu Ghraib. The events there managed to undermine the US efforts, and demonstrated to normal Iraqis that there wasn't much difference between Saddams torture and US torture. Unfortuneately the result of the Contract Interogation and 3 stooges. (Bush,Cheney, Rumsfeld) You wish to follow in these shoes? Harper has pretty much said as much, because of his foolish statements in Parliment, which also support the incompetence of the previous Liberals to address the situation. Other countries involved in Nato have come up with solutions, what's wrong with ours. Oh yeah it's just a photo op. Get real, we (Canadians) are the good guys.

Dion in touch?

The reverse is true. The people whom think like you about prisioners and torture, are likely to vote CPC and nothing else. This would amount to a very small yet vocal portion of the population. The statement you make above is absolute tripe. All you seem to care about is whom people vote for, vs what is going on and what are the implications of such actions. 5 Taliban Commanders were released last month by the Afghans. All sorts of things happen in Afghanistan. Isn't it nice to know that Taliban commanders captured by Nato forces are released to command once again. Then you have friendly Afghans tortured, as well as Taliban tortured. This is not good under any circumstance. It wasn't good at Abu Graib. Your opinion is not only in the minority, it is detrimental to the mission.

Such is the hypocracy of the Liberal Position. Your list of quotes demonstrates such hypocracy or change in direct of the Dion Liberals if you will. The CPC queried the Liberals about their rush to combat and whether they were prepared for such a mission (they weren't) and the exit strategy. The Liberals had none. The CPC haven't proven to have improved upon the Liberal position, but have at least tried to provide adequate equipment, while the soldiers are there. This does protect the soldiers, but will do little to provide the proper support the Karzai government requires to stand on its own two feet. As long as the mission is flawed, the results will be flawed. The CPC are committed to this mission. The NDP are not committed to this mission. The Liberals want to claim both. I believe that Stephen Harper mentioned as much last christmas, that he could at least understand the Ndp position no matter how much he disagreed with it. The Liberals position, didn't make sense then, and it still doesn't make sense.

It doesn't appear that you have either. You remind me of that enlightened individual south of the border. "Bring em on".

You don't have to enlighten me with regards to the activities of the Taliban, Northern Alliance or the general culture of Afghanistan. The use of children in violence, war and torture is terrible and occurs in many failed states around the globe whom have been involved in a cycle of violence and warfare that transcends generations. Similar activities occur in Africa. But we are talking about a vote that occurred put forth by the Liberals. Abstaining from the motion or voting against it as both the CPC and the NDP did, will do nothing to change the situation you describe above. Don't overplay a Liberal motion and the CPC response to that motion as the be all and end all of the problems in Afghanistan.

I will agree with this part of your statement.

Are we to lower our standards to that of the Taliban, Northern Alliance and Afghan Security Forces?

The CPC could have stayed home too? What kind of thinking is that?

So much for accountability, principle, it's all about power.

Explain? Mike Duffy couldn't get the numbers, but they hinted that the CPC might not like the results. There isn't going to be an election, so poll numbers don't mean much. Also on MDL was a poll asking Canadians when they would like an election. FALL 2008. That is a date I am comfortable with. BTW, I saw another Dion add. It expanded the Gavel add. It did nothing for me. Anyone else seen it?

Hi Andrew. Army Guy is giving his honest assessment of Afghanistan. He hasn't given me a load of BS or the RAH RAH RAH crap. The problem that the Army has, and always will have, are the politicians, every stripe. Gord O'Connor is now a politician, and is demonstrating a level of incompetence unworthy of the position he holds. The problems in Afghanistan are complex. Your questions are valid. I would like to state that the way you are putting the questions, would almost imply that "army guy" and the Canadian Forces are responsible for the troubles and the solutions in Afghanistan. The government has had a problem for 6 years on what to do with Afghan Prisioners. The Liberals were not anymore forth coming then the CPC. Harper continues to say stupid things, but the policies are the same and were never properly addressed. Army Guy demonstrates that his loyalty is with those he serves with, and tries to explain the complexities of assemtrical warfare in an impoverished Islamic country where the cultural differences are very complex. I do believe that the combat mission in the south will have little more accomplished in 2009 then it does today. I have supported a withdrawl from this strategy. Our politicians particularly the Liberals are playing both sides of the fence regarding the needs of the mission (Should I stay or should I go). The Conservatives resorting to Name Calling and are in Denial with regards to the prisioners and these theatrics in parliment are doing no one who is directly involved in Afghanistan, any good.

Madmax, what do you mean?I presented facts with a link. Please explain your point of view. I think it was a joke, more poked at those that believe in the Muslim Boogeyman. Yup

Well, if Stephen Dion agrees with your thinking. So be it.

You talk big.

There is no need to talk to Al Qaida. But talking with the Taliban is recommended by Hamid Karzai and other various forces. Afghans are deal makers. Sometimes they hold sometimes they don't. Money often proves to be an effective tool. Money talks. Right now the operation has a problem of creating more supporters of the Taliban. The Taliban were popular at one time. People are going to back a local and not a foreigner. It is Afghanistan and things don't change much, and most likely won't. Fighting for freedom is a tabloid statement. Especially when everyone knows that the rights in Afghanistan will be something we will not be able to understand in the west. Green tea and chats occur with Canadian soldiers on a regular basis as with every other NATO force engaged with Pashtuns. Each time you kill a Pashtun, whether they deserved it or not, you get a clan to join up against you. That said, most of this you already have read in the Afghan thread. As for the prisoners, I have to wonder what Dion is thinking. Is he thinking or just spouting. Regardless, then there is Stephen Harper, with his comments in Parliment. Clearly more tabloid rah rah statements from the Prime Minister. I don't understand it. Now the media are having a field day with it, showing that everyone knows what will occur when "prisoners" are handed over to the Afghan security forces. The Taliban aren't as bad as the Nazi Germans of WW2. The Germans were treated in accordance of the Geneva Convention by Western Forces. Afghans, in their wars with the USSR and each other, don't respect these conventions. At the same time, on the news this morning, they are showing people in the wrong place at the wrong time, whom Canadian Forces rounded up and handed over to Afghanistan Authorities. These people suffered torture etc and have since been released. This one person, still liked the Canadians and realized they made a mistake in rounding him up. That is about the most positive thing I have seen. We have good people over there.

Well....there you go again letting the facts get in the way Isn't that just like you!

Was this a mistake or a plant? It would appear that no one has done anything wrong with the information, from what I have read.

This is accurate This was funny. LOL and the intent of the Liberal motion is to wait till 2009 and then surrender.

Well Mikedavid00 you have managed to get another big round of responses. Where have you been the last few months? Did you find work? Things getting better for you? Where you in Russia lately?

Scriblett, it would appear you are giving "Taliban Jack" a free ride. Regardless, the NDP has put forth motions for the early withdrawl of troops from Afghanistan. The CPC and the NDP positions have been at polar opposites. The CPC continued with the Liberal Combat mission, and the NDP disagreed with the whole concept. The CPC/Canadian Government, have committed themselves to 2009.

Overall, the United States. I am re-reading a fresh copy of 'Soldiers of God: With the Mujahideen in Afghanistan' by Robert Kaplan The main focus in the book is Abdul Haq, a young and devoted Mujahideen commander who had personally won the favour of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. He had one central goal, that being the creation of a Muslim Afghanistan run by Islamic law. However, he wasn't a 'radical fundamentalist', and he was eventually sent back into Afghanistan (to his unfortunate death) by the CIA at the beginning of this latest imbroglio. Great book, a highly interesting read. The author meets Hamid Karzai, and writes of him with great respect, long before Karzai became leader of Afghanistan. Sorry to go off topic.... this should be in the Afghan thread. Kaplans book is a great starting point for any reader. I mentioned it in the other Afghan thread. I am glad to see you were able to put together that it was the one and the same Abdul Haq whom was killed in 2001. If you know the details of his death, it was very disheartening. Many of the players in that book are still active today. It also must be said, that Abdul Haq, while the focus of the book, wasn't a leader of the larger Muj groups. Neither was Karzai. But they where more moderate, in comparision some of the other groups the US was backing. Kaplan is Jewish and at this time, the Muj held no animosity towards "the people of the book" and those whom believed in God vs those Godless commies. I don't know how many times the book has been updated, the latest copy I saw was up to 2000. Even then, on Kaplans return he had lots of misgivings about what had transpired. That said, if you are done with Kaplans book, "Taliban" by Ahmed Rashid, is a natural follow up. (If someone is interested in following up this post, I am willing to continue in the "Afghanistan the Latest" thread.) As for Gord O'Connor. I believe that many of his statements of late, have been statements of convenience.

I think this could be an accurate statement. But, could you provide more reasoning for this position.

That is an interesting take. You could be correct with regards to the outcomes. Here is a transcript from the Green Debate. Even then Elizabeth May was of the opinion that Candidates should step aside. http://talkcanada.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_...696169993260949

Welcome back Mikedavid00 I take it you found employment, thus your absence? I miss your over the top posts, things have been kinda dull around here while you were gone. Nothing overly serious, just the end of the world. A few folks have been banned, mulitiple times. Some people I didn't expect to get banned were. I don't expect you to get banned but..... but I often find many of your posts distasteful.