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Did Martin orchestrate spat with Washington? Kate and I have been investigating a tip that she received that suggests that Paul Martin did in fact orchestrate the recent fight between himself and the Bush administration. The proof may lie in the Liberal ads. Consider the following timeline: December 5th: The Liberals release three ads on their website. (1, 2, 3) December 7th - Paul Martin at Montreal climate change conference: "To the reticent nations, including the United States, I say this: There is such a thing as a global conscience, and now is the time to listen to it, now is the time to join with others in the global community" December 8th - Canadian ambassador to the US, Frank McKenna (a Liberal) reportedly receives a "dressing down" from the Bush administration over Martin's comments on December 7th. Kate notes: Norm Spector provides analysis from David Frum disputing this rebuke of McKenna. http://www.stephentaylor.ca/archives/000495.html

Did Martin orchestrate spat with Washington? Kate and I have been investigating a tip that she received that suggests that Paul Martin did in fact orchestrate the recent fight between himself and the Bush administration. The proof may lie in the Liberal ads. Consider the following timeline: December 5th: The Liberals release three ads on their website. (1, 2, 3) December 7th - Paul Martin at Montreal climate change conference: "To the reticent nations, including the United States, I say this: There is such a thing as a global conscience, and now is the time to listen to it, now is the time to join with others in the global community" December 8th - Canadian ambassador to the US, Frank McKenna (a Liberal) reportedly receives a "dressing down" from the Bush administration over Martin's comments on December 7th. Kate notes: Norm Spector provides analysis from David Frum disputing this rebuke of McKenna. http://www.stephentaylor.ca/archives/000495.html

I'd have to hear it from another source also, and he is denying it. Warren Kinsella has something on it in his blog, and other sites are picking up on it http://forums.cbc.ca/ridings/2005/11/156.html some interesting comments on the CBC forums. I would definitely like some confirmation from another source. Gee though, whoda thunk it, Islamists taking over the liberals, dang it, and here I thought it was the Catholics.

Further to this: December 19, 2005 Liberal riding official resigns OAKVILLE, Ont. (CP) - The president of the Oakville Liberal riding association has resigned after telling a voter unhappy with gun control to take her "gun loving ass back to the U.S." Elie Betito's response to a voter about Liberal handgun policy was disturbing and highly inappropriate, said Lindsay Williams, the Liberal campaign director in the riding. Williams said Liberal incumbent Bonnie Brown was "disturbed by the terrible way it was handled." At issue was an e-mail exchange initiated by Stacey Cherwonak, who identified herself as a sport shooter and wrote to Brown's campaign to take issue with Prime Minister Paul Martin's proposal to ban handgun ownership as a crime-fighting measure. "In addition to the millions (if not billions) of dollars that your party has stolen from Canadians since 1993, Paul Martin's speech today makes it clear that your party's word isn't worth the breath it's spoken with," wrote Cherwonak. "After work today, I signed up as a member of the Conservative Party of Canada, along with a $100 donation." more here: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/Canad...1360350-cp.html

Don't forget Sheila Copps in Ontario, I think if she had run as an NDPer or independant she could have taken that riding. I've been told by riding officials that Harper did not intervene, Grewal resigned voluntarily. I did have a copy of his letter but its not on my laptop which I'm using right now. He'd be damned if he did and damned if he didn't, as would Layton I suppose. It isn't CPC policy to interfere, they leave it up to the EDA to sort it out, more democratic that. In fact, I believe Harper has put forward a proposition in that area, can't find it right now.

Anonymous 'non-partisan' tip on old Harper speech leads back to Liberals By BRUCE CHEADLE Canoe.ca (Ottawa Sun) December 18, 2005 OTTAWA (CP) - An eight-year-old Stephen Harper speech dug up by Liberal researchers cracks a rare window into campaign war-room strategy, media manipulation and the ethical quicksand that sometimes underlies an election leak. This is a tale that reflects well on no one. In its simplest terms, the Liberals used a third party to put a buffer between them and a story that was unflattering to the Conservative leader. It began the day before the first televised leaders' debates in Vancouver, with the Liberals scrambling to change the channel following the already infamous "beer and popcorn" gaffe by communications director Scott Reid and an unusual mid-campaign broadside from the U.S. ambassador to Canada. Alex Munter, a former Ottawa city councillor and well-known gay rights activist, helped set the ball in play. Munter contacted a Canadian Press reporter travelling with the Conservative campaign offering up an old Harper speech that an acquaintance of his, as Munter put it, stumbled upon while browsing the Net. The speech, delivered by Harper when he was a private citizen working for the National Citizens' Coalition, praised American conservative values, disparaged Canada as a "welfare state" and said the jobless aren't worried because they have generous benefits. It went unreported in 1997 and sat unnoticed for almost nine years on the web site of the Council for National Policy, a little-known right-wing American think tank. The reporter passed Munter's tip along to the CP election desk in Ottawa for consideration. That's where the story gets murky. News organizations receive tips or leaks from partisan sources all the time. It does not disqualify the newsworthiness of the leak. But everyone in politics has an agenda, and recognizing the agenda is part of the critical appraisal any news organization brings to its assessment of a story - even if a news tip's provenance is not always conveyed to the public. Munter asked to remain anonymous as the source of the tip. Contacted by CP's election desk, he also vigorously denied acting with any partisan direction. After some deliberation, CP ran a story outlining the main speech points, citing the source of the tip simply as a political opponent of Harper. The story was immediately leapt upon by the Liberal war room as evidence the Conservative leader is outside mainstream Canadian opinion. By the following day, the Liberals were sending out backgrounders under the following Editor's Note: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/Canad...1359000-cp.html Think we'll see this in any other MSM ?

Anyone with any brains wouldn't spew out such a statement, he wouldn't do that at all, whatever its supposed to mean. And...considering he's been talking about abandoning trade with the U.S. its even more silly. I disagree with Harper on this one,. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.h...b1eb7b7&k=55886 Just 'who' has George Bush as their hero, and geez, maybe if you watched Fox a bit you might not 'spew' so muchl Pffftttt

This is a hmmmmm guess he wants to have his cake and eat it too. Isn't the PM also an MP who represents a riding and its constituents, or does PM think the riding loses representation if its MP is PM. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.h...02-1dfc60b70c67 Liberal candidates can oppose same-sex Martin: Higher standard for party leaders REGINA - Prime Minister Paul Martin said yesterday Liberal candidates are entitled to run in this election even if they want to deny Charter rights to gays and lesbians seeking same-sex marriage. A day earlier, Mr. Martin had said Conservative leader Stephen Harper shouldn't even be running for the highest political office in the land because of his refusal to protect same-sex marriages as a Charter right. Pressed by journalists, the Liberal leader said his higher standard only applies to those leaders who want to run the government. "The point that I made was one that was directed at the prime minister -- the person who occupies the job of prime minister," Mr. Martin said. "The issue is not, 'What does an individual MP say?' An individual MP is entitled to his or her vision."

I know there was a thread earlier on this, but didn't find it... not enough coffe yet - they got the price of the ring wrong though. http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/politics...118179#continue The presence of Svend Robinson in an election that has government ethics as a key issue is a blight on the New Democratic Party and an insult to the public at large. The voters of Vancouver Centre are obviously free to elect whomever they please. We trust them to see Svend Robinson's opportunism for what it is and make a stand for higher standards of political, ethical, and legal behaviour. In other words, to send him packing.

Layton has allready said he can work with a CPC minority gov't, maybe next he'll actually endorse Harper - http://www.recorder.ca/cp/National/051218/n121863A.html Layton says Liberals would widen rift with Quebec as Martin promises change JAMES MCCARTEN OTTAWA (CP) - Voters wary of widening Canada's rift with Quebec should think long and hard before voting Liberal, New Democrat Leader Jack Layton warned Sunday as Prime Minister Paul Martin billed his party as an agent for change despite 12 years in power. Layton, lingering in B.C. to shore up soft NDP support in a key electoral battleground, accused Martin of damaging the process of reconciliation with Quebec by trying to make a ballot-box question out of the separatist threat. Returning the Liberals to power would suggest to Quebec that the rest of Canada doesn't much care about the sponsorship scandal, he said. "Canadians need to think very carefully about what voting Liberal would do concerning national unity," Layton said in the B.C. Interior town of Castlegar, where he was visiting a riding the NDP lost to the Conservatives by 680 votes in 2004. "It would send a very strong message to Quebecers that Canadians frankly aren't very concerned about the Liberals' attempt to buy the support of Quebecers in a corrupt fashion."

Check this out, if a CPC candidate had said this it would smeared all over the MSM. http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/ Elie Betito: Massaging The Message An email from Elie Betito, the campaign director for Bonnie Brown, Oakville riding, to a voter unhappy with the Liberal's handgun ban proposal. (I've included the text of the original email to Betito in the extended entry.) The headers confirm origin from Betito's email address at Apotex. It's written to Stacey Cherwonak - a Forensic Firearms Tech with the RCMP. From: Elie Betito To: Stacey Cherwonak Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 1:30 PM Subject: RE: Your party's announcement today... take your NRA , GUN LOVING ASS BACK TO THE U.S. WHERE YOU BELONG, E. BETITO Continue readingElie Betito: Massaging The Message"

he NDP have formally called the OSC and US SEC to investigate the Income Trust Liberal scam. http://www.ndp.ca/ndp-drupal/files/E-39-Ju...letter_SEC4.pdf I wonder how much has to be uncovered to change liberal voterers' minds.

Could you provide the section etc. please and if that is so, then it would also protect polygamy and incest, after all sexual orientation can mean ...what ? Speaking about Martin, this is cute: http://www.electionblog.ctv.ca/default.asp?item=119920 Wheel falls off Liberal campaign - literally My colleague Lisa Laflamme , who is covering the Liberal campaign today, writes to say that, in Regina, Paul Martin and the Liberal campaign thought they had the perfect Christmas election campaign photo opportunity lined up today. Though it was -27 C in Regina, Martin was to take the reins of a horse-drawn sleigh for a little ride for the cameras. Unfortunately for the Liberals, the back wheel on Martin's sleigh blew a flat tire that no one could miss. "Finance Minister Ralph Goodale and Mrs. Martin were also on board. All were singing Jingle Bells at the unfortunate moment. "Not even the Liberal 'spinners' could alter this image," Lisa writes. If you can tune into to CTV Newsnet today, you're sure to see the footage.The other big event of the day was another photo op. Here's Lisa: Watching a video of Martin Q & A in Saskatchewan, on CTV site, really, Martin seems to be losing it. The pressure seems to be getting to him he's almost apoplectic these days.

When the Medisys Health Group was opened, was Martin already a patient? Has Martin ever paid money for quicker treatment, than he would have been given under normal medicare? The country deserves answers. He cannot trumpet health care in one hand and support a private system on the other. If he ever paid cash above and beyond what medicare would provide, for preferential, expedited, or higher level of treatment he owes it to everyone to come clean. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Only the Shadow knows! We will never know the answer to that one. I believe Duceppe made a comment during the debate that there are 10,000 Healthcare administrators in the Ottawa area. It is no wonder the taxpayers' backs are broken and they can't get them fixed.... Now extrapolate that throughout the system and how many do we have, does anyone really know?.

As far as I know, and I do talk to a lot of small c conservatives on various riding boards, there are no plans of anone leaving the party over SSM. This is wishful thinking on the part of some people, it also serves to divide and simply stir the pot There are no plans for a leadership convention either. There is the Christian Heritage Party which might apeal to a very few, but I kinda doubt they will go there, it is not supported in anyway by any conservatives I know. However, everyone is entitled to a voice in the democratic process, even if the supposedly 'progressive types' would like to see them silenced.

They cannot paint Harper as scary or immoderate anymore so they paint him as 'un Canadian'. But Mr. Harper said such declarations ring hollow. "It's a very emotional declaration," he said. "Mr. Martin and the Liberals are always … good at wrapping themselves in the flag. But the reality is that Liberal corruption has resurrected support for sovereignty in Quebec. And we know that Mr. Martin doesn't have the same attitude towards our flag in his own company." The Martin family's privately held company, Canada Steamship Lines, has sparked controversy in the past for the practice of flying so-called flags of convenience, for commercial and tax reasons. As for passion, Mr. Harper said, "I'm not there to sing and dance and act for the cameras. I'm there to communicate a direction for the country and give serious, intelligent answers to the serious, intelligent questions that people pose." Considering Martin was the one who wrote the legislation loopholes and all which he could take advantage of, I think Harper is right on this one.

Yes, lets. A chunk of liberal mps would actually vote against ssm, and the liberals didn't lose any over it. Neither would the Tories. Norm, come on, surely you can do better than drag up old comments you've used many times before! I will choose an old response: about 67% of Canadians would rather have someone else than Martin as PM. Interesting how you change your position on polls when they don't have a favorable result for you. The Tories would allow a free vote, the Liberals not, and who's the more tolerant? You need to take off your Liberal coloured glasses. At any rate, I'm getting bored with this again. Usually I avoid you Norm because you develop this one note trill about Harper and the Liberals and darned if you didn't start it up again. When you want to actually debate something without bringing up the usual crapola, I'll be around. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Uh the Liberals lost Two MP's over SSM. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree, this incessant carping about SSM drags all the discussions down. Its not an election issue for me, and isn't for a lot of people as there are more important issues.

That is conveniently ignored.

Maybe I should repost what actually happened with the charter here as well ? The 'far right' doesn't make up the majority of the CPC, and I imagine the libs are very disappointed that they can't smear Harper anymore. This 'far right religious' stuff is a strawman argument, continually resurrected to scare the voters. I don't think it carries any weight these days. Personally I don't give a fig who religious people want to support, they have the same right to a voice as anyone of us do, or do some people want to see their right to an opinion taken away. It makes one wonder about who we really have to fear, when it comes to freedom of speech etc.

Low income people won't save as much, but they do have to spend money to live, but the GST is only a portion of the CPC tax platform, not the whole, they have put forward other proposals. The net effect of a 2% GST reduction, as far as the lower income (under $20K/per person) households are concerned: Immediate 2% savings on all GST taxable items and services. So they will save SOME GST money on SOME things, which appears better than saving NO GST money on ANYthing. So the overall tax burden on the poor will shrink further which is what most people want - less taxes for the poor. Unless of course the criticism is based on the usual politics of envy, and don't forget that 2% off the price of a new house or a car is a big savings. Focusing on the GST opens the opportunity for much needed reform of this consumption tax and of related provincial taxes, personal income tax. e.g. the current $30,000 annual-sales threshold for firms to register for GST could easily be doubled or even tripled at modest revenue cost. This would make life much easier for many small businesses. It would also significantly reduce both private tax compliance costs and public tax administration costs. Even more important, a cut in the federal GST could be used to leverage reforms in the most economically damaging provincial taxes. Cutting the GST rate in a province could be tied to its agreement to phasing out its corporate capital tax and reforming its sales tax to remove the bias against business investment. Both of those changes would promote productivity and economic growth. Cutting the GST itself will bring economic benefits, , so Tory tax policy could well deliver good economics as well as good politics.

This isn't the U.S. there is no comparison, using the U.S. as a bogey man doen't cut it, just a scare tactic. We have provinces cutting out services to save money, we in Ontario now have to pay for eye tests among other things that were once covered. The Canada Health Act, at least as it has been interpreted, prevents co-payment, user fees etc. but surely in some cases these would be preferable to taking services and cutting them completely out of the public system. Personally I believe it is my business how I wish to spend my hard earned $$$ and if I wish to buy an diagnostic service I should be able to, without having to go to Montreal to do it, or the U.S.

Here's the latest Canadian poll I could find. It's from July, 2005. It indicates that 55% of Canadians want Bill C-38 to stand and 39% want it repealed. Sure 55% is less than the 69% who favour decriminalization of marijuana but it's further evidence that Stephen Harper is out of step with the majority of Canadians. Here's the July poll: http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/...tem/itemID/8147 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would like to see this put to a referendum. Would you? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Definitely !!

All doctors work out of private clinics. So what is so different about Martin's doctor? Does Martin pay his doctor with a credit card or his health care for the doctor's services as Canadians are prone to do across Canada. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgaz...0e-f6ea28b15b11 Prime Minister Paul Martin's personal physician is the Montreal founder of a national network of clinics that is in the vanguard of private health care. Dr. Sheldon Elman, president and majority shareholder of the Medisys Health Group, said Canada's public health-care system has deteriorated to the point where it is "disastrously terrible" in key areas. "We all grew up under this umbrella of, well, you're entitled to unlimited free access to health care no matter what, no matter when and no matter how much," Elman said in an interview. "Initially, we had an absolutely wonderful system ... But the truth is that we don't have this wonderful system. The system is great for certain things and absolutely, disastrously terrible for others." Elman cited as terrible the fact some provinces - Quebec is not one of them - prevent people from paying for an MRI scan to diagnose a medical problem. "You can buy an MRI for your dog and you cannot buy it for your daughter. Literally, if your dog has a problem, you can go and get this done by a vet today." Medisys has offices in Montreal, Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver. The Montreal facility has an MRI machine that costs patients about $560 for a scan, most of which can be reimbursed through private insurance. Critics say Medisys is an example of two-tier health care because its clinics let more affluent patients jump the queue to get tested while others who don't have the money must wait. "This is something we are discussing with the provinces - the issue of private payment for diagnostic services," said Catherine Saunders, a Health Canada official. The Montreal clinic also charges patients for a virtual colonoscopy, a noninvasive scan that avoids the need for the sometimes painful standard colonoscopy.

You cannot tax a populace to wealth. Tax reductions are for the benefit of all and particularly aid the working poor. We all want less taxation for all and concern about the under-trodden victim, etc, etc, is not the monopoly of socialists. As far as I'm concerned its the liberals who are selling out Canadians, and if you want to see the economy die and jobs leave, watch how fast that will happen if an NDP should ever get a majory. To liberals, "compassion" means giving less productive people the fruits of the efforts of more productive people. But real compassion means enabling less productive people to become more productive themselves. That way, the poor have not only more material things but also more self-respect, as well as more respect from others, and the society as a whole has a higher standard of living and less internal strife. -- Thomas Sowell

Government is already sticking their noses into to much of our business...Stay out of my decisions for my children! Another black hole has been born if we elect the Liberals..let's throw money at medicare and daycare! :angry: Except to make sure that our kids don't have to put up with any queers or blacks or lesbiens or pay for abortions for those wefare sluts who get pregnant... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, is that kind of talk allowed on thi board ?