scribblet

You are welcome. I was involved with the EE program quite heavily before I retired, I could tell you some stories about what was done to manipulate hiring practices in order to get the quotas up - but I won't... - ETA it wasn't with the RCMP -

That was for a short period of time back in the mid 90s, there was a backlash over it, of course they bought vehicles etc. but it did happen. I don't remember the exact wording, in fact I do think it was more to do with only giving contracts to companies who hired a certain percentage of minorities. I remember listening to talk shows about it at the time, one caller was a bidder who ran a family business, he didn't have any other employees minority or otherwise, therefore he was out of the process. Much of this nonsense stopped when Mike Harris ended the EE (legally) but large companies and gov't still practice it. Again, we all abhor racial discrimination but we should all have a level playing field.

Employment trends http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-621-m/11-621-m2007053-eng.htm#n5 http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Revisit+protection+women+watchdog/2903003/story.html This guy has a good point, as far as Toronto and Vancouver go, visible minority would not be non whites. http://communities.canada.com/VANCOUVERSUN/blogs/thesearch/archive/2010/03/17/has-the-term-visible-minority-outlived-its-usefulness.aspx

Dan Kelly, senior VP at the CFIB, estimates job losses from the opposition bill could cost the economy millions of dollars among other things it will increase EI benefits and reduce the minimum number of hours of work needed to qualify for EI. It most certainly is about lowering the work hours to get more benefits which could ultimately end up in higher premiums. This is irresponsible of the opposition but it's obviously political with an eye to bringing down the gov't. http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/September2010/24/c4899.html

I'm saying that the playing field should be level, ALL people should be treated equally based on merit, skills, education and so on. Race based preferential treatment has no place in our society. We have laws against discrimination, we have HR tribunals which are usually slanted in favour of minorities so there are many recourses allready in place to be used instead of discriminating against one group in order to favour another. Maybe someone should do a study comparing applications and qualifications for various jobs, the names on the application forms and tests etc. should be marked out. Often there is a panel interview where each interviewer scores the applicant, they too should be part of the study. They could see who was the best qualified and who actually got the job. ETA: Did you know that women now hold the majority of positions in the public service and hold about 43% of executive positions. Should they still be a designated target group?

I disagree with that, the hierarchy has been dealing very fairly with it for a long time, and has been shown, somewhat over zealously. Ever since Judge Abella's report on EE around the mid 80s and subsequent legislation in '86, the implementation of it has been very aggressive, but still hasn't reached the goals. We are talking about over 20 years here and still they haven't attained their goals - there have to be more reasons than simply discrimination in hiring, because IMO that is rare these days, and I would say non existent in large companies. I remember when Toronto City Hall would only award contracts to minority companies but got a lot of flak over it, but minorities companies are again 'demanding' that they be given contracts based on race or disability, that they be given preferential treatment during the process - how does that keep the playing field level for all bidders. What would that do to the tender process, how fair and economical would that be !! http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/09/15/15364206.html#/news/torontoandgta/2010/09/15/pf-15364206.html

Indeed it does, I worked with it for a few years when it first came into effect, I can tell you how some of it went when they didn't get the desired results. So if you're a white male you need to get basically perfect marks in high school, perfect marks in the preparatory security courses you will take at college, volunteer for a dozen different jobs which will gain you experience you can cite on your resume, then get nearly perfect marks on all the RCMP entrance exams, both psychological and physical. You need, in short, to spend years of effort to prepare. Don't forget it was around the mid 90s that the RCMP did instigate a hiring freeze on white males which they caught a lot of flak for as eventually they didn't have enough applicants. One thing these EE programs can't always get around is the lack of applicants, many target groups don't want to be police officers. This brings to mind hiring practices at the same time for some fire depts, St. Catharines was one. They actually required white males to have higher marks on the tests and did hire someone with lower marks, I remember about it. Not much of this stuff is on the net now so no links. Outreach and attempting to recruit from target groups is admirable, but all things should be equal across the whole playing field.

:lol:

This is a private member's bill which could pass if the opposition unites in favour of it which they likely will. Quite a drastic reduction in required hours in order to collect pogey, one which could make collecting pogey far more attractive than working. Not to mention that the estimated job losses from this could cost the economy millions of jobs and push premiums up drastically over the next few years. It should be heading for 3rd reading soon.

Of course they are not going to say anything on their pages about how target groups are treated, or to admit that their hiring is quota driven, anyway you look at it they have been and will try to tilt the scales in favour of target groups. There was discussion some time ago about hiring practices and I can find many references to newspaper articles, but links often go stale. This piece references a 2005 article about the EE policy. http://torontonews.wordpress.com/2007/09/17/pc-destroying-effective-policing/ http://thesheaf.com/2010/03/16/white-male-for-hire/ The Link (Concordia University) Racially targeted hiring results in it's own problems, so race and ethnicity should not be factors in hiring decisions, only merit, skill sets and abilities.

This aboriginal wants an exemption from the long gun registry, because it's an unreasonable burden on First Nations people trying to fulfill their treaty rights. - say what! Okay I can't begin to understand how this would violate their treat rights, however, should any group be exempt? Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/First+Nations+group+demands+long+registry+exemption/3574390/story.html#ixzz10aJzncS1

I mentioned what said years ago to make the point that affirmative action was in force that long ago, and obviously it hasn't worked well enough so now their practices are becoming more aggressive. I posted some links earlier to show what is happening now. Discrimination in hiring has been firmly rooted in the RCMP, for a long time. A few years ago, then RCMP Commissioner Phil Murray and Human Rights Commissioner Max Yalden decreed that the force should consist of: 20% women, 4.5% aboriginals and 8.3% visible minorities. Solicitor General Herb Gray admitted at that time that white males are now being passed over in favour of less qualified applicants who fit the quotas, and confirmed it in a reply to a letter I wrote to him at that time. I don't even know if I have the original letter anymore, I took a quick look through some files but none of the old gov't letters are there, I either threw them out or filed them some place else. I had some research comparing education requirements in other countries for some jobs e.g. a doctor and engineer - they are not there either. I would bet that the original 'problem' still exists, that of the majority of applicants are not target groups. I also posted this link earlier from 1996 which confirms what was happening. http://business.highbeam.com/5587/article-1G1-30405889/rcmp-hiring-biases-now-official-visible-minorities http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/11/25/national-post-editorial-board-finding-the-best-mounties.aspx and here Note that the Feds have recently ordered a review of its affirmative action policy one day after a woman complained that she couldn't apply for a public service position because she's Caucasian. ( wasn't the RCMP)

By the way: Rob Ford is a fuckin' moron and if you support him, you are too. Just a lil' FYI. That is 'brilliant', if that's what you consider brilliant then you standards are pretty low, to say the least. The Star continued it's lies even after the Ford's so called victim refuted it. I'm rootin' for Ford just to see how apoplectic these Council cretins will get. IMO people are supporting Ford because they've had enough of the status quo and these loony toons running city hall. this is off topic, but it shows another case of the Star's spin and omissions. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/24/liberal-spin-machine-runs-aground-on-harpers-un-speech/

There's a difference, the Star outright lied about Ford and now has a note at the head of the original article that says: "This material subject to legal complaint by Rob Ford." Agree about wiki. it can be and is edited by people with an agenda, check out the recent edits about Ford.

Now... that makes one scratch one's head as to why everybody would tell Scriblett's son not to bother applying... unless there were mitigating factors here. I didn't say 'everybody' I said a school counsellor, I also said I wrote to the RCMP who confirmed their practices, it was true then, and is true now, so why bother, the OPP paid better and he didn't have to to go to the wilds of Saskatchewan or wherever. LOL Yes, they fill quotas first. All the applicants who pass the aptitude testing are put into certain boxes and moved on to another box for when needed. A target group member who passed the aptitude test would be immediately moved up in line, the white male would be held back. He could be held back until they didn't need to fill the quota or no one else was available. I don't know now how it's done, probably much the same, don't forget under EE companies could ask and keep track of target groups. I could run an SQL query anytime and tell you what % of the workforce was disabled, south asian, or whatever. ( no it wasn't the RCMP )

Aptitude testing http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting-recrutement/selection/rpab-btatpg-eng.htm When I say the feds have 'always' disciminated in favour of minorities I should amend that to say since EE. http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=8b38e8a9-f7de-460b-9bd7-723991e9d12e http://www.fact.on.ca/newpaper/vs990917.htm There was a case this year about a woman not being able to apply for a job designated for aboriginals only, which caused the gov't to state they will look into hiring practices. Remember, technically under EE an employer is supposed to give the job to a target group member if all other things are equal, but this didn't work so employers including the gov't became more aggressive, resulting in 'reverse discrimination'.

More reliable than the anti semetic gangsters at the U.N.

No mitigating factors,so don't read something into it that wasn't there, it was just the usual high school counsellor, and she was right as she knew as I knew then, that Employment Equity was a huge factor, still is with the feds. I will try to fish out the reply I got from the RCMP. He did go to college and also took the law enforcement course so got into the OPP. The feds have always discriminated in favour of minorities, we all know that there are federal jobs where only minorities can apply. Obviously the employment equity factor isn't working, they haven't been able to recruit enough non whites, so are becoming more aggressive. I can tell you, this hiring and EE can get very convoluted as they twist themselves into pretzels to accommodate and hand out more points in the interview process. Don't forget the aptitude testing where white males have to score higher than the others just to get an interview. I think you'll find that such scoring probably still applies. In other words entrance exams were relaxed in order to fill hiring quotas. I'm not up on it now, so can't say if they still do it or not. this is fromn 1996 http://business.highbeam.com/5587/article-1G1-30405889/rcmp-hiring-biases-now-official-visible-minorities

The RCMP have always given preferential treatment to minorities, but this appears to be a more aggressive campaign, as I suppose they were not meeting their quotas using skills and meritocracy. Not to mention the applicants have to be bi-lingual which does cut down the chances for many. My son always wanted to join the RCMP when in high school, but was told by the school counsellor, and this was around 16 years ago, that he wouldn't be able to get in because of employment equity (affirmative action by any other name). I wrote a letter to the RCMP asking them to confirm this, they did, it was true. I got a long reply explaining the process, I'm sure I still have it around somewhere, but it was a written letter, not an email. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/mounties-to-recruit-for-women-and-minorities/article1722639/ cont...

You can't conserve enough to make up for the increase in rates and time of use, even if you get up in the middle of the night to do laundry. People are hurting seriously and it's getting worse. Too bad Canadians well, Ontarians are so apathetic. read it and weep Electricity distributors will be allowed to make higher profits after the provincial energy regulator quietly approved a hike earlier this year. Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Hydro+firms+quietly+given+bigger+profits/3569360/story.html#ixzz10U7H2kim Tax me, I'm Canadian !!

No idea, but like I said, it's incrementalism as is the Cordoba Initiative at Ground Zero, it's also symbolic. Although as far the Cordoba Mosque goes, it wasn't always a Mosque either, it was the Christian Visigoth church of St. Vincent. I wonder what the Turks would do if Orthodox Christians demanded the right to pray in Haghia Sophia of Istanbul, now a museum. "An Islamic regime must be serious in every field," said Ayatollah Khomeini.

Wow, if you thought that the Toronto Star had any ethics at all this should dispel that notion As Ford says: The arrogance of the Toronto Star to think that they can tell Toronto voters how to vote is unbelievable. Read more: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/24/jonathan-kay-the-toronto-star-hits-a-new-low-in-its-attack-on-rob-ford/#ixzz10TYJbKsB'>http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/24/jonathan-kay-the-toronto-star-hits-a-new-low-in-its-attack-on-rob-ford/#ixzz10TYJbKsB http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/24/jonathan-kay-the-toronto-star-hits-a-new-low-in-its-attack-on-rob-ford/

Take this for example, on the surface it sounds great, tolerance and respect for all faiths right, but maybe it's more about incrementalism and getting a foot in the door. Would it be a two way street, would Christians be allowed to pray in any of their Mosques. http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/08/17/cordoba.mosque.spain/index.html?hpt=C2

When I say 'we' I mean the taxpayers/gov't. If people really want a nationalized universal prescription plan then the money has to come from somewhere, the drugs might be a bit cheaper but will not be free. As far as Ontario goes, if gov't and people really want to do this, the money would be better spent on this then full time day care. Also, if the gov't brings this in they have to be up front as to how they fund it, and where any funding short falls will come from - e.g. additional taxes.

I know the drug lobby is huge, but I'm not convinced that the gov't should be nationalizing or providing pharma care, we can't afford it. I suppose the gov't could provide something like insurance for which we would have to pay a premium of some kind, it could then negotiate for bulk pricing. I don't agree with the gov't getting into a monopoly or creating more bureaucracy so maybe a better option would be for additional tax credits for prescriptions. some discussion here http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/18/national-pharmacare-as-run-by-omniscient-angels/