myata

Nobody in the great system bothered to check why the count has doubled in a year (assuming correctness)? That's just too bad. What about those bonuses though?

I have to state right off, I didn't check the numbers but if they are valid, in a real democracy (see another topic) it would have been a subject of a serious, detailed and in depth public, including real expert (without 's' in the middle) inquiry. Maybe a blip in the statistics but how do we know until we know? P.S. this is how fast hurray for your own good hype can become seriously problematic. "Because we can".

Indeed, hard to disagree, democracy is more than a word. There are many forms of democracies yet, in the core of a concept of a full modern democracy there's a set of quite specific and well defined principles and concepts. Importantly, not just a shopping cart of this and that, but they produce a coherent whole there facets and components support and reinforce each other. - Citizens have a meaningful role in the political process that is transparent and clean - Governments are transparent, accountable to the citizens and work in their interests and on their priorities, not own - Rule of law, independent, fair and effective justice system - Independent institutions, checks and controls - Free media - Rights and freedoms of citizens protected against arbitrary interference or infringement by governments Possibly more. From this perspective a full modern democracy has to have a confident yes to every of these positions. Can Canada claim that? Not that I can see. And I wouldn't rely on abstract ratings produced by someone who may never lived in the country and understood how it works. I can see SNC-Lavalin affair with my own eyes, an inquiry shut down on a whim from the minister office, Emergency Measures invoked for a flu-like epidemics and please go on singing about ratings and how it's the best that can be had. A brain can be either own or none, for all I could care.

And that is no surprise or aberration. In the political system this country has evolved to, willingly and naturally, public is needed only for a democratic stamp of approval on the high government office. Then, the next morning, very politely, thanks for your hard work and now, will you get lost please? Yes and the taxes are due, by the way. Some three centuries back people, free citizens understood what it meant. That was in another place though.

Democracy that is good and benevolent, granted by virtue and grace from above does not exist in reality. It is only a mirage, illusion a fairy tale. Every piece of democracy that is around, exists and works is created, and maintained by the citizens. Either citizens control, clean and keep their governments in check regularly, all the time; or the governments will begin to make citizens the way they think they should be. For their own good, how else and as always. This choice is binary, either - or. If citizens won't own the government, it will try and attempt to own them. If you don't make, create one you'll get the other. That much is guaranteed by the logic of the time and evolution.

"Full democracies are nations where civil liberties and fundamental political freedoms are not only respected but also reinforced by a political culture conducive to the thriving of democratic principles". These nations have a valid system of governmental checks and balances: no (none), an independent judiciary [questionable] whose decisions are enforced, governments that function adequately [questionable: SNC Lavalin, Emergency measures], and diverse and independent media [highly questionable: Covid, wokeism]. These nations have only limited problems in democratic functioning [serious problems]. Isn't mentioned in the definition but essential for being a full democracy: political choice of citizens [severely or maximally restricted], ability of citizens to influence and control their governments [next to none].

Long before quasi-vaccines the trust was ruined by hectic at times ostensibly clueless management. Did you notice the "early days, travel from China part"?

Are you talking to QM, in that alternative Universe? Right, why would one need a brain of their own if somebody has done the job for them already?

One sad take from this experience that just may come back (and keep coming) that no, an individual of clear objective disposition cannot trust and take for granted information from public authorities. That loss of trust is worth way more than all the billions thrown at the problem and ineffective and outdated institutions that were taken unawares despite decade(s) of preparation and public millions that can now be written off as wasted. Just recall the China travel story in the first days. Unsatisfactory. No pass. And all the hectic activity that followed, complete with bizzare Emergencies, a pathetic at times ridiculous attempt at redeeming the fiasco of the first days. Canada's public management system is seriously outdated, ineffective, inefficient while self-absorbed and grossly overpaid and cannot produce quality management decisions when they are required by the society.

Right. That didn't happen where the message was: a) clear b) consistent and most importantly honest, so that the trust was maintained throughout the most difficult initial period where there hasn't been much knowledge about the nature of this novel infection. Plus of course, high quality public health system, management and operation, another crucial component of public trust. No you can't say with words what you have to show in the reality as real, actual result. That doesn't work. But here in Canada, we just aren't getting that point.

Really. The goodness people already know all there's to know about the subject...ever. Community would only be an unnecessary complication and delay in the great scheme... a nuisance really but we don't say that here. Relax and go back to sleep.. you great government knows and cares. Before there was a G-word for that but it was so outdated. Don't forget your taxes though, just in case.

No, you aren't getting it. They are following the call of their hearts, to do good for the society, all of it and at once. And, they have bottomless well of (public) dough only need a bucket deep enough. And, they know there's nothing to stop or limit their goodness zeal not written anywhere in the great picture book nor otherwise. So why wouldn't they do it? Why wouldn't you, in their place?

Nope. Doesn't work like that. Not every overreaction, panic, random, hectic pointless and ineffective decision can be written off for the novelty. But there's competence, preparedness, quality and responsibility. There was SARS, MERS, chicken flu and all sort of movies about the next pandemic. Public millions were spent happily on preparedness reports (and supposedly, measures). Nope, just doesn't fly. And there are examples right here in this world that managed to get to the same pretty much result cutting out the drama part, like all of it, 100%. So no, we need another, more exciting story.

Exactly my point. Why would they stop doing anything that they like. Like who or what else is there, in a happy democracy? Your benevolent ru- oh never mind that, democratic government always knows best what is good for you, dear. Before you even known it yourself just relax now, will ya.

Never cared to notice that two centuries flew by, nor bother to ask what the words in the pretty picture book actually mean.

The difference: in a democracy, a real one, any law, policy, government decision has to reflect the will of the people. It's not that the people are always right, just that you know where it's coming from. Think of a jury trial. And in a quasi-democracy, oligarchy, technocracy, aristocracy and all the way to totalitarianism you a) don't know and b) cannot know why certain decision was made. That is really, the only essential difference. And now, choose one. You are completely free in your choice but you cannot have both, no don't mind sweet fairy tales.

And now they just don't know where to stop... or how. Like do they really have to, why?

.. in England citizens limited and bounded absolute powers of their monarchs not once, many times, including numerous revolts. Here you have created an impossible mongrel between the absolute rule and quasi-democracy, in fact a see-through facade for unchecked and unaccountable rule and never bothered to think again how it could live, not to mention, what it means. Oh well, to each their own. Just don't claim that ancestry, you are as far from it in both fact and spirit as can possibly be.

Right. Those who cannot do, make and accomplish, choose to live in their fantasies, dreams, memories of glories long past. Good night dear... and do hope to not wake to major surprises (the evolution did not promise that to the dinosaurs though)

At least some folk in some (other, though) places try to think. Oh well.

Let's examine the facts, shall we? They are all here, at our fingertips. In three years from 2020 to 23 we have 217 under 30 fatal Covid cases (and one can almost bet that some of those could be attributed to associated conditions but OK). That's about 70 per year. At the same time, in 2020 there were the total of 6792 deaths in this age group, of which Covid-related approximately 1%. What is one percent, among multiple other causes in this group? We can see this too: Accidents: 48% Homicide: 13% Suicide: 11% Serious disease: 9% Congenital disease: 2% and guessing, overdose a large fraction of the other causes (17%) Couldn't find specific number for the flu-related ones but I can almost bet my common sense that it wouldn't be far from the same number (~1 percent). Let's do it, see it for ourselves and why not, why couldn't we? So, where is the big drama? Who was the operator of the show and when can we see the interview? Don't count on it though. "Because we can".

Because: the genie is out of the bottle. Because yes, they can. And, they know it. And they know very well that there's nothing there to stop, check or even limit their drive to the glorious, all-inclusive future. Relax, now... too late. .. because in about two centuries of the mindless slumber under great democracy lullaby nobody, maybe a handful in the whole place bothered to ask themselves, what a real democracy is, how can or should it be different from an imperial dominion (now left to its own matters by an empire that couldn't care).

Exspert (syringe in the hand): I think it'll be good for you! I think I know it! Let's do it, right here! Democracy Not so fast, let's see your evidence. Does it make sense? Here, here and here will you explain it please? Canada: Yeah go for it! Yay! ... ... ... wait ... maybe ... oops! ... (some decades on) appointed a commission of inquiry with outrageous pay out of your pocket. What?

One can easily dig up the data from international resources, the count for under 20 was really, like really minor. They have to be watching them filmed non-stop to "have seen them at the peak". More generally, in life you get what you're paying for. And that includes democracy of course; or a happy imitation of. You choose.

That's a looooooong stretch, by quite an arbitrary attribute. You can imagine that in a society like Chile Pinochet's or Putin's Russia not paying taxes to authoritarian government would cost one very dearly - perhaps even more than here. Clearly this is no indicator of either existence or effectiveness of the necessary democratic functions listed in the OP. Just because you mentioned it though, an interesting question would be, who pays taxes in Canada and how? Why tax loopholes remain firmly in place despite all kinds of papers disclosed? And that brings us back to the points made in OP of course: if actions and agendas of governments are dictated by their own, or closed group interests rather than by the citizens, can such societies be seen as full modern democracies?