Spiderfish

It is wrong. It just got real around our place. The level of absolute betrayal we feel right now from our government, who we elect and trust to work for us, not against us, is honestly difficult to put into words.

I get your frustration. Be happy you are allowed to work at all, my wife was just informed today that she has been fired from her job of 6 years, despite a previous policy from her employer that they would accept weekly testing. They decided to change the rules today, and she's unemployed as of end of the month. It's going to make things tough.

If you actually want a response, may want to shelve the condescending, arrogant, douche routine.

I don't know....vaccinated people? Thing is...if we are really trying to have an honest discussion/debate, it shouldn't matter if your vaccinated or unvaccinated. This is a strategy that is being intentionally used to divide us and put people against people. Government loves this because it takes the focus off their terrible, failed policies and redirects the attention and blame back onto certain members of society. It's a disgusting ploy. Regardless of my vaccination status now or in the future, I will always side with the rights of people who wish to make their own decisions over what medical interactions they choose, this is not the business of the government, of me, or of the loud fickle mob...period!.

I understand your concerns, however I think a degree of rationality would serve everyone well. Far be it from me to advise anyone on how they should respond to threats of overreaching government control, I honestly don't think our government would go to those extents...although from what I'm seeing out of places like Australia, it's possible I may be off on my judgement. It's hard for anyone to make sense out of anything when the government is moving the goalposts, changing narratives, and keeping people off balance and confused on an almost weekly basis. Gotta say, I also don't like the term "pro-vaxxer" any more than I do "anti-vaxxer", because I think it clouds the discussion and is intended to incite people. I simply want accurate, unsuppressed information to base good decisions on. I'm not anti-vax, I'm not pro-vax. When they can provide a vaccine that is proven safe and effective, I will be the first in line. I haven't seen any such thing yet. Until then, I guess I will have to keep paying $400 a month for covid testing out of my pocket for the "privilege" of earning a living and paying my bills, so much for freedom 55.

VAERs is only one metric. I think it may only be a matter of time before the truth is revealed on the street level. I just heard this morning of 2 people who I know personally who had complications due to the vaccine. The doctors were very reluctant to admit it, however they have now come out and determined that in both cases, the vaccine was likely the cause. First case, an acquaintances daughter was advised not to get the shot because of a recent unrelated clot in her brain. The college she attends would not let her back to school without the vax so she went against the doctors orders. She now has bleeding in the brain again. Second case, a co-worker of a family member ended up in the hospital with blood clots in her lungs. Young and healthy before the shot. doctors now admit it was likely due to the vaccine. Both of these cases are anecdotal and will undoubtedly be dismissed by the majority of people who are pro-vaccine. Its a bit different for me because I know these people. I think once more people start seeing cases like this in their own social circles and start connecting the dots, it may start to sway opinions. Or maybe not.

I'll admit I just hopped back on this forum recently after an extended leave, and I haven't really had time to gauge the temperature of opinions here. but I just want to push back here a bit in the interest of honesty and rationality. I'm not sure what you define as "antivaxxer" or what segment of the population you are referring to in this clearly derogatory way, so it's difficult for me to judge exactly who you are so hostile towards. But I will just submit that there is a significant segment of the population who don't fully trust the vaccine but who are articulate, educated, and go to great effort to "deal in the facts"...and are very pro-vaccine, just not this one. If you are referring to this group as "a scourge on society", "flat earthers", and "conspiracy theorists", then I really think you are doing your argument, and your position a disservice. If I am misunderstanding the intended target or your vitriol, apologies. I just hate the underhanded tactics that some are using to bully and insult their way through an argument that would be better served with civil discourse. The sooner we stop fighting each other and throwing up strawmen, the sooner we can infuse some objectivity into the debate.

All excellent questions.

Hypothetical? the family of Colin Powell (and many others) may disagree with you. There was an example just last week of the Alberta CMO having to apologize to a family and walk back a story of a patient who they publicly declared died of covid when they actually died of cancer. There are many other stories like this if you look. It's not about believing or not believing, it's about which numbers they are giving, how they are coming up with them, and if there is an underlying motive for the statistics they are and are not releasing, motives which governments always have. The province that I live in has already come out and said outright that they are not going to release certain data. Wonder why? How are we supposed to "believe" anything if they are admittedly suppressing data? Go ahead and trust your government if you choose, I have always given a great deal of caution and skepticism of everything that the media and Government say, and it has served me well. And as for your depreciative "flat earther" shot...Boges, I've debated you for long enough here that I know you can do better than that.

Not necessarily. What are they in the ICU for? If someone is in ICU battling COPD or stage 4 cancer but has tested positive for Covid, is this considered a covid case? They would be in the ICU regardless. I understand your point that overall numbers of vaxxed vs unvaxxed in ICU indicate general trend, and I agree with this. But this doesn't necessarily accurately reflect the true numbers. Factor in a concerted effort by the system to deem everyone as a covid case who has tested positive regardless of severity to pump the numbers, and I suspect it's not quite as binary as it appears.

No, of course I'm not assuming that all 97% of Quebec doctors are submitting due to coercion...but no doubt there is a percentage that are. What I said...and I'll type more slowly so you can follow, is that there is a higher percentage of vaccinated health care workers in regions of the country where they are facing termination of their careers than in regions where they are given alternate options to this ultimatum.

A physician goes to school for a decade and devotes their life to their practice. do you not think that the threat of having all of their devotion, time, and money destroyed would not hold some sway, despite principals? For someone who asks a lot of questions, you sure don't seem to have a lot figured out.

I edited my post above. Government coercion and draconian threats of career destruction make the compliance numbers much higher in some regions than others where there are other options.

Yes, really. It depends on which region of Canada you look at. Some provinces are allowing weekly testing as another option rather than just being fired. this makes a difference when the population is not coerced with threats of career annihilation.

Rate of non-vaccinated health care workers are pretty much in line with general population rates of vaxxed vs unvaxxed.