betsy

Believe me, the last thing I want is to add more fear to the liberal society that's already stumped and afraid to move....just like a deer caught in the headlights. What's the problem with being aware of what's happening around us? Think of it as a smoke alarm....

Maybe so. The Chinese had been in this country longer than any other oriental groups. So far, I've not seen any demand from them to change our ways just to suit their religion. Especially VIOLENT demands. But some oriental groups worship Allah! And if you take a look at what's happening in their mother country....you'd see the extremists in their motherland being quite active too. Extremists and activists in the Philippines had been in a frenzy lately over just about anything deemed "offensive" by their fellow-brethrens in the western worlds. Taking their cue from the western headquarters, I guess. So yes there may be more orientals than non-orientals....but we're talking of religion....and the zealotry that comes with it. Speaking of fear-mongering....that will make an interesting topic all on its own.

No. Was Harper in power at the time, what the hell did he have to do with it? Nothing, no apology. Personally, if you go into a hornets nest, stir it up a little... you should expect to get stung. Arar isn't a little untarnished angel in all of this... and I don't believe his torture claims are much past a money grab. Like I said, all the consular officals and the red cross that visisted him found no evidence of torture, and Arar didn't mention anything after. Pfftt. Cash grab. Getting smacked around and sleep deprived isn't torture. If anything, he should be suing Syria. Canada didn't torture him. He did sign a confession that he was al-Qaeda, of course Syria is going to deal with that. Please people, the guy acted like an idiot, was friends with al-Qaeda members, and knowing this he entered the US as a Syrian/Canadian. Could you be asking for more trouble? I have to admit that I know so little about what had happened. I did not follow the news. The little I know had been derived from the media only after the report came out and RCMP guy was on the hot seat apologising.

Why is that not possible?

And along with it, Multi-culturalism, that the UN strongly endorsed!

Why then are the extremists killing in the name of Allah? Can you please explain the connection of it to global markets? Why are they screaming "death to the infidels"....why are they not screaming "death to traders?" As far as I know, the Christians, the Buddhists, Shintoists, Hindus, Wiccans, etc., are so far a part of this global market....and yet they seem to be doing fine.

Different argument - we're not talking about banning, but self-censorship here. If Christians had been bombing places for every insults that is heaped upon Jesus, I think the reaction will be different. I assume you will promote self-censorship and showing respect for Christianity ....so there wouldn't be any violence. The extremists had been steadily ....and consistently...reacting with violence for every deemed slight against their religion. They cling to the promise of 72 virgins if they bomb themselves to smithereens. The more victims they take along with them, the more glory for them. We are being "conditioned" how to behave. Some had already been "conditioned." The extremists loonies among Christians (yes we've got them too) had shown they too are capable of violence. Think of the abortion doctors and clinics.

Maybe so. But a lot of those culture-change were a result of wars...of colonization...invasions. Cultures had evolved with the changing world...some just by the natural flow of things. But some of these "voluntary" adaptations to the changing world was not by means of tyranny. There lies the difference.

I'm sorry but I still don't see enough specifics in your answer. Our culture changes with time. It always has. So do our values, whether 'we' and 'our' refer to the 'west', Canada, America or Europe. If I let my imagination go, I might imagine that there would be some point in the future (say, 2040) when there are so many Muslims in Canada that there's a groundswell of support to remove our constitution and make Canada a Muslim state. Luckily, my imagination isn't that wild - that's not going to happen. This is the world we asked for when we gave the powers that be the directive to create a true global marketplace, and the world government that that entails. The genie is out of the bottle, but luckily it's not as scary as some think it is. It is a speculation on my part. Perhaps letting my "wild imagination" go. However, it is not just my imagination that some people....just out of fear of POSSIBLE violence...had decided to stifle the freedom normally enjoyed in a democratic western society. It is a chip of the foundation being given away just so there wouldn't be any violence. The curious and sad part is that...the self-censorship was done....in fear of ANTICIPATION. I get this image of a battered person who automatically shields his face in fearful defence at just the slight movement from his tormentor. Conditioned...and anticipating violence at every turn. Europe may try to scoff it off...or deny it....but they are already living in fear. By the looks of it, some of them will lean more towards capitulating and giving up their identities just for the sake of appeasement....hoping...it will thwart farther violence. Perhaps this is the kind of bargaining Jack has in mind when he said we should negotiate with the Taliban. Going back to the said incident in Germany, I also read that some high officials were opposed to this "self-censorship." There is a growing opposition to this kind of psychological tyranny being waged upon the world. It is just a matter of having all the right elements at the right time (whatever it is I don't know)....that may make my wild-imagination become a reality. The world is in a awful mess right now. I don't think we've had any war (global scale) triggered of by religious zealotry. When you consider all the other religions of this world....who are also as much committed to their faith....we don't know how far they are also willing to go in protecting their own beliefs. After all, unless they worship Allah, they are also deemed "infidels."

What are you speaking of, specifically ? What do you mean by 'identity' and 'drastic measures' ? It is inevitable that something will have to give eventually. Either we keep on appeasing and compromising our own culture and values, thereby eventually losing our own identity in the process.... ...or drastic changes will have to be made as to our immigration policies. The way things are escalating in other countries (with threats of violence at every thing that is deemed "offensive")...is it far-fetched to think of the possibility that a fed-up western society may just decide that they have to re-evaluate everything: that may even include sworn citizens. That all citizens be made to choose to either embrace the host country's values or be stripped of their citizenship and shipped back where they came from?

The Liberal Party, as a body, should apologise to Arar. Harper, as our PM, should also apologise for the injustice Arar had suffered....as an acknowledgement of that injustice. But that apology need not come right away, right now, unlike some critics are demanding. Stockwell Day had said something about having to review the legalities and liabilities.

I suspect corruption too.

This was the topic on CPac. I just want to know what you think about it.

And if it doesn't get sick of the game....then what? Anyway why do you assume that the bull just wants to run around us when the extremists are screaming "death to all infidels!"

But how do you know that they cannot really hurt us? We've never dealt with religious zealots fueled by the vision of cleansing the world of infidels. Not as resourceful and patient and tenacious as this one. Wanting to believe that they cannot really hurt us...is burying one's head in the sand and thinking what it does not see must not be really happening. We are not ignoring the mosquitos....how can we when we feel the sting? Unless we ignore the pain.

They chose landmarks...at the time when they could kill as much innocent victims as possible. Orchestrated to strike simultaneously in different planned locations. That alone may prove the motivations are more complex. It could just be for a simple "trial run." Testing the water. Who knows the reason why they didn't go for nuclear places. Perhaps they also fear the retaliatory nuclear missiles. Perhaps they fear the knee-jerk reaction the US may employ....of nuking multiple target hotbeds and answering questions later. Maybe they just simply think it's not the right time yet. BUT it does NOT dis-prove what we have come to believe so far (based on what the extremists are saying): the extremists wants the infidels dead.

But isn't it naive to think that by just simply ignoring the thugs, peace will be achieved? This is not simply about invasion because of wanting land and/or natural resources. This is about religious faith...embraced by zealots. The reward being what they believe to be martyrdom. Peace will never be achieved if one side seeks the annhilation of the other.

How do you support your comment? As I've mentioned before, it is the very fact that the West is considered the seat of evil...which is corrupting them. How do we win by "leading an example"...when our way of life is what drives them mad?

I don't disagree with you on that. That's how you naturally stand up to bullies.

It is time to stop peddling fear and paranoia. The evidence to date clearly shows that the 'war on terror' has inspired people to commit terrorists acts that would have never considered it before. ? When did Air India get bombed? The cruise ship Achilles Lauro? Munich Olympics? How about those multiple hijackings of planes I remember as a teen? Doesn't this run along the same vein as the 9/11 hijacking? Only more evolved in the kind of terror it brings.

Some people would think having a PM's photo looking like a thug plastered on the front page, an embarrassment. Some people would think getting Canada to resemble a banana republic sinking fast in the sea of corruption, an embarrassment. Some people would think having a PM coddle and approve of trashy antics of his MPs...having no inkling of diplomacy and class....quite an embarrassment.

Thanks, but no. It's a silly question and was originally asked in the midst of a raving ad hom attack. Thus, it was ignored. And now it's being used as some kind of dumb "gotcha" thing. It's a silly question? In your own opinion perhaps...largely due to the fact that you know it blows a hole in your argument. You don't know how to answer it. It is a legitimate question...a crucial part of the argument. It is being used as a question in solid RATIONAL DEBATE. You are basing this WHOLE thread on the premise of YOUR OWN TRANSLATION....your adamant and stubborn insistence for us all to rely on it. This is like reading The Sun and with you urging us to believe the headline "Gerry is Bin Laden In Disguse!" ...simply because of the opinion of one person who sez "...because I just know it! Take my word for it! Hah!" The question being asked of you is an attempt to elevate your topic into something rational...they're giving you a chance to put legs on your premise to stand on! That is, IF you know how to answer the question.

I went to a government office situated in a highrise in the heart of Ottawa. The last time I was here was decades ago...with all its shops and restaurants at the ground floor. I hardly recognized it. With all the security I had to go through before people were allowed to get on elevators and escalators. I guess it depends on individuals' perspectives how they define the lives they live....

Never underestimate anyone. Besides, mosquitos will probably still be here after the human race had gone extinct. Mosquitos are more than just unpleasant.... we fear the sickness they bring.

The extermists do not speak for all muslims - should we judge the US by the opinions of Pat Robertson? What did Pat Robertson say? I am not familiar with this guy. I take it he said something nasty about Muslims? When did he say that? Did Pat Roberstson blow up anyone? Expressing one's opinon is not quite the same as actual killing and maiming.