betsy

I take it by your "whatever" that you really don't care if priests abuse children -- you really don't care that the church (Ratzinger) covers it up. Geez Betsy, I thought you were "for" family values? I don't know about you, but my family values include protecting innocent children from predators, no matter who they are. Anyone who covers up this abuse is just as guilty as the abuser. I take it if someone accused your husband of molesting children, based on just hearsay....it's okay with you if we condemn him guilty right away, right? There is no "hearsay" involved in this betsy. The Pope signed a letter as it has been described in the media. I believe in protecting children, and I don't care if it is the Pope...anyone giving orders for others to keep accusations and evidence of child sexual abuse a secret is a criminal and deserves to rot in jail. Seemingly you disagree with that. Disagree...agree...take your pick. Whatever.

Thank you for the info. I watched MDuffy today...and it was said that in the House of Commons, only Olivia Chow raised a question about it. The Conservative strategist said that the accountability act is being delayed in the Senate by the Liberals....but that there is now an investigation by the RCMP. The credibility of the Refugee Board and also Immigration are tarnished. I couldn't help but think this may not be the first time Ellis had done this (and it may not necessarily have to be sexual favors)....and who else in the board could be dealing in this kind of corruption.

Is the Refugee board the same as Immigration? Just asking...confused with these two. Because I think there was a previous scandal during Sgro's time that another immigration official was supposedly conducting interviews in bars.

It makes you wonder how many applicants that should have been turned down got approved. I'm also thinking of national security.

I take it by your "whatever" that you really don't care if priests abuse children -- you really don't care that the church (Ratzinger) covers it up. Geez Betsy, I thought you were "for" family values? I don't know about you, but my family values include protecting innocent children from predators, no matter who they are. Anyone who covers up this abuse is just as guilty as the abuser. I take it if someone accused your husband of molesting children, based on just hearsay....it's okay with you if we condemn him guilty right away, right? Darn, according to Gerry...you or your husband don't even have the need to read or know exactly what it is that makes him guilty! You'll just have to believe that the accusation is there...and that it says your husband is guilty. Apparently it's okay with you that your children bear the shame of your husband's guilt...that they also end up losing a father when he goes to jail! And apparently it'll be okay with you that the family as you know it, is suddenly gone. Oh well, you can always file for divorce and re-marry! After all why would you stick with a pedophile. If he's been accused...of course, definitely...no doubt about it, he must be guilty! That may be YOUR type of "values." For some, that is called "tabloid values". Or Banana Republic type of values!

IRB judge offers refugee claimant visa for affair Updated Tue. Oct. 3 2006 9:12 AM ET CTV.ca News Staff CTV News has obtained video of an Immigration and Refugee Board judge suggesting to a South Korean woman that he would approve her refugee application if she had an affair with him. The video, shot by the woman's boyfriend, shows Steve Ellis meeting with the woman known as Kim outside of his chambers. He brought her confidential case file along. "Let me see what I can do. I'm going to work on it. I really want to be friends with you," he told her. Ellis said he planned to deport her but had second thoughts. "The initial one was no, but now that I know you, I'm not going to be able to sleep if I say no. I won't be able to sleep," he said. Ellis, a former Toronto city councillor, sought Kim out on two separate occasions after first hearing her case in July. "I had no choice. When he asked me for the coffee, I had to meet him. I was afraid he would say no, deny my case," Kim told CTV News. Brad Tripp, her boyfriend, said: "We knew the only thing to do was to record this because no one was going to believe us later." In the video, Ellis tells Kim she's as beautiful as a model and offers to find her work: "We have to work hard to get you another job at a hotel or something." Over the course of the 45-minute recording, it became too dark to videotape. In the audio recording, Ellis suggests he can approve her application if she has an affair with him, but warned Kim not to tell her boyfriend. "He might try to make trouble and say, `Oh yeah, this guy she fucked was a judge. She fucked him and that's why she is fucking him and that's why he said yes'," Ellis said. Ellis seems to understand this risk of doing this. "If we do this and it's shown I did this for improper purposes, then you are screwed too. We are both screwed. I'm in big trouble and your status is gone," he tells Kim. Ellis, appointed to the board in 2000, would only tell CTV News: "I don't have anything to say right now. Thank you." Kim sent the video to the chairman of the Immigration Appeal Board last week. He immediately suspended Ellis. The matter has been referred to the RCMP. With a report from CTV's Robert Fife http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Darn Gerry....you really are determined to tar and feather him in whatever way or form. Now you'd even settle for hypothetically. Well that's why I gave you the answer that I know you desperately want to hear. I'll repeat it one more time, hypothetically or not: Whatever.

Wrong. Do you think all a judge has to do is read the media, then base his judgement on it? The media said such a letter exists...that's it? Good enough to convict and condemn a man? Did I miss something here? You're not talking of Iran? or Zimbabwe? or Cuba?

What considerations? What dots? What connections? Can you please explain what you mean? I just clicked on the link...it was also a tragedy, like all senseless killings.

Actually Michael, if you do not or you cannot offer any proof that supports your "counter assertion"...you'd be the best proof I have...on which I base ALL my apprehensions.

Oh I believe you that some are educated. Especially on the matter of Engineering and Science! They learn how to pilot big airplanes! Learn the best way to make the most damage to buildings...the best spots to hit that could bring 'em down like a pack of cards! Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation there Michael...of all examples of degrees, you had to choose Science and Engineering. Just kidding with you here.

Please explain what you mean by that.

Some neighbors of mass killers or child murderers appear baffled upon learning their neighbor had done that kind of crime. And speaking of such....some people in a district in England (apparently where some of those terrorists grew up) were interviewed. They all look Mid Eastern...and they were baffled that these men whom they knew all their lives could do such a thing! So there goes your theory about "knowing they're not ALL like that" simply because they're your friends, and acquaintances....down the tube. Heck, the WIFE OF THE SHOOTER in the Amish County said "he is not the man I know as my husband!" And they had 3 children together! I might trust my friends implicitly....but do you want to stretch that trust to "acquaintances" as well? Like the guy you always see at a bus stop waiting for the same bus on a regular basis? The one you exchange comments about the weather...or the bus being late...before he or you bury yourselves reading your papers?

I've noticed...where do you get your facts that you can confidently "generalize?" Speaking of 2nd or 3rd generation Muslim, strange you should bring that up! The subway bombings in England and the most recent alleged terrorist plot to storm our Parliament and behead our leader...some of the suspects are "home-grown" Muslims. Questions are being asked why those who were born and raised in a western society....would end up turning against it...to the point of a willingness to kill and maim innocent fellow-citizens. Some blame it on cyberspace. Others on fanatical beliefs learned from home (like the Khadrs I guess). Nevertheless, the result is just the same, whether they get the idea from their church, at home, on-line etc. It is the ease of switching loyalties that is troubling. This was raised on an interview at CTV newsnet around the time of the foiled Parliament attack. So where's your proof to back up the statement you just made about the 2nd or 3rd generation Muslims. "I know thousands of Muslims personally..." doesn't count. I understand you are giving your speculations....but for your opinion to be given some weight, you've got to offer some proof on which you base your opinion. Otherwise, it is nothing more than just idle comment. Just about anybody can make a comment that don't actually mean anything.

Yes they do exist in every faith. But do all religion teach DEATH TO ALL NON-BELIEVERS? Does the Dalai Lama...or the Pope....or the other religious leaders....call their followers to arms with the promise that killing as many infidels will bring you 72 virgins in the afterlife? That it is an honor for your family that you die a martyr for your god? Do they issue any "death sentence"...what you call a "fatwa" to anyone like Rushdie for writing what they deemed as an insult to their prophet?

Well, I don't understand then why you fear the extremists, if you have Muslim friends and acquaintences then you know that they're not all 'like that'. And I've told you: I know they're not all like that. And I've explained to you about the extremists in the posts above, had given you not only one or two...but several proofs or facts on which I base my apprehensions. From the zealotry fueled by religious faith (very very deadly), to public displays of violence, to the power by those who can wield influence among students... to the troubling response of Liberal thinkers...to the scary suggestion of Jack, etc.., But now it's your turn. Let's hear your proof or something other than just a personal opinion or observation why you just dismissed what we say as "fallacy."

What group ? Their nation, their race, or their religion ? You used the term 'extremists' and that's the best way of grouping these people together, in my opinion. Good point. Because we're not talking about race actually. We're talking about a religious group fuelled by potent religious teachings. BUT EXTREMISTS DO EXIST! Are you now saying that they don't? ...or is it no longer politically correct as well to use that term anymore? Is this part of what you admonish us to do, "Self-censorship"? Just in case we offend anyone?

It is a terrible tragedy. I can't help but think of those poor kids as they were being tied together to the board....then being executed at point blank. I hope none of the girls' relatives see this thread.

Mine is the counter assertion. The assertion would state that Muslims are different from every other race on the earth somehow. That's what I'd like to see proven. The terrorists acts done for their religion...the fanatical fervor their religion can stir is unlike that of other religion that I know of. The only ones that come close are the Japanese (the kamikaze) during WW2....who did the suicide bombings for their Emperor. We live in an enlightened world now. Information abound. Globalization. Inter-racial relationships. So the world is so well-used to multiple cultures and had accepted differences in the physical looks, cultures and beliefs....which is a far cry from the past, that's why probably Blacks were "feared" by some. Did the Blacks demonstrate anything similar to the kind of demonstration shown by certain group of people now? But tell me, in the face of all these violent protests and acts of terrorism all over the world, all in the name of religion....I'd like to hear your proof backing your counter assertion.

I've had friends from different race. We still keep in touch with a Muslim couple we've known for about 3 years now. My husband had sold a business to another Muslim some time ago...and we patronize that business every now and then. I am not generalizing all Muslims. I know for a fact that a lot of Muslims just want to live their lives like any other normal Canadians. That is why I keep referring to the word "extremists."

I guess the Pope was victimized by "sensationalism" too....seeing all the violence erupting and the nun being killed. No wonder he couldn't stop from apologising. He even started inviting! So were the Germans. Didn't take long to convince that director to pull out her opera. And there was not even any hint of erupting violence about it too! Sensationalism made them "jump the gun" I guess!

Some has the power to influence. Taken from: CANADA'S NUTTIEST PROFESSORS, by Terry O'Neill, with files from Andrea Mrozek Western Standard, 09-25-2006 SUNERA THOBANI, Assistant Professor Centre fo Women's and Gender Studies, University of B.C. Thobani was among the first outside of Gaza to revel in the murder of thousands of Americans at the hands of al Qaeda's killers on Sep 11, 2001. Scant weeks afterwar, she told an Ottawa feminist conference that Americans were the real terrorists. The US, she said, was "the most dangerous and powerful global force unleashing horrific levels of violence....US foreign policy is soaked in blood." Even B.C.'s premier condemned the speech as "hateful." Still, universities are buying what this firebrand feminist is selling. The former president of the National Action Committee on the Status of Women is a rising star, having been appointed Ruth Wynn Woodward Endowed Professor in Women's Studies at Simon Fraser University in 1996 before she even finished her doctoral dissertation. She gained her current post in 2000. Though Thobani hails from Tanzania - where sharia law is still practiced - she's said that we're the real misogynists, stating: "there will be no emancipation for women anywhere on this planet until the western dominaton of this planet is ended."

I've never seen any group of Jews protesting...even when they're being clobbered. They haven't got that reputation. On the other hand when a certain group of people calls for "DEATH TO ALL JEWS!", you can bet it is not something to be taken lightly.

How can you say it's a "fallacy?" How do you support your assertion that it is a "fallacy?" My apprehension is based I guess to the fact that of all the different other people who came to the Americas....no other people had displayed such capability for violence as a mob....shown on tv. And if you have those people being doctrined into believing that all non-believers must die....isn't that reason enough to be apprehensive?

Yes....actions by only a few extremists, and yet this few extremists had managed to secure some sort of special immunity status, it seems. Imagine that. If the actions of only a few extremists can manage to bend our laws.....what more if we're no longer talking about a few? Excerpt from: The Apathy Of Defeat by Mark Steyn, Western Standard 09-25-2006 Well, it’s verboten if you’re an elderly white male of German extraction, like Reni Sentana-Reis (formerly Reinhard Gustav Mueller) of Edmonton. Herr Sentana-Reis was sentenced to 16 months in jail by the Court of Queen’s Bench for anti-Semitic screeds on his widely unread website in which he referred to Jews as “subhuman” “debauch” “demons.” On the other hand, if you’re not an elderly white male of German extraction, if you’re a large crowd of persons of, ahem, non-Germanic extraction and you march through downtown Calgary with placards reading “DEATH TO THE JEWS,” nobody prosecutes you. If you’re the A-List imams at the Grand Mosque of Stockholm and you sell cassettes referring to Jews as “the brothers of pigs and apes” and urging believers to go out and kill them, Sweden’s Chancellor of justice, Goran lambertz, says no problem, these are just routine designations “used by one side in an on-going and far-reaching conflict where call to arms and insults are part of the everyday climate in the rhetoric that surrounds this conflict” – i.e, threatening to kill Jew pigs is just part of the vibrant multicultural tapestry.