betsy

When was Jesus born? No one can really say. The Christmas that we know now began as a christian version of a pagan ritual. Pagan worship is not in accordance with the wish of God - in fact, we had been warned about that. The christmas celebrations now are still paganistic in so many ways. Christians try to cling to our own interpretation of this celebration....but aren't we just trying to make an excuse? Justifying its continued existence when there is no more threat of persecutions? So, aren't we committing a grave insult to God by participating in this christmas celebration?

deleted. Out of topic.

Why should you celebrate Christmas at all....if it is supposed to be a celebration by Christians? Why don't you just scrap and ignore it? You don't have to join in the celebration! Just think of it as just another day. Don't make any special preparations at all. Not even gifts or Santa Claus. Think of the money you'll save...now that this has become so commercialized and studies show people get into big debts on Christmas time. Schools don't need to celebrate or mention anything about it if they don't want it! BUT if they ever did decide to mention or talk about it, being schools that they are - A PLACE FOR LEARNING AND INFORMATION - they shouldn't hide or MIS-REPRESENT the fact that Christmas IS a CHRISTIAN tradition.

What's wrong with their shower stalls? Why don't they just add faucets or shower handles so all you need to do is step inside a shower stall to rinse your feet or legs or however or whatever it is you want to rinse? Why go through all the contortion of installing a footbath - specifically for one particular part of your body- the very name alone associates with religion (if you're trying to say this is not about pandering to religion)? Before you know it they'll demand a special bath for the women - complete with shaving kit, special bath oils and marble-tiled massaging slabs, masseuse, and a large bath for group frolicking complete with eunichs. Gee, I'm thinking of those harem scenarios.

Because we've got student-mothers and handicapped students - who could either be Muslims or not. Being a mother and being handicapped has nothing to do with religion.

Bonam, Cybercoma and Fortunata, I understand that it is "buyers beware" policy a lot of times. But why should we just settle for that? As consumers, we have the power to make demands that these countries...and all these companies/businesses that bring these products directly to us...should meet our high standards. Manufacturers from all over the world should be vying for our dollars. If money is the bottom line - then we certainly have the power! I think consumer groups should be very vocal - and really loud about this! This latest thing with Mattel had gotten some consumers really worried and upset. And consumers should take advantage of this latest episode (especially with a major popular brand name) and not go back to being complacent. The Health and Safety board or whatever governmental board oversees the products that consumers buy should revise their system. So many products are going under their noses that obviously there's a major flaw in their system. While I understand that it is impossible to make it perfect - but China was and is regularly mentioned in these type of hazardous products over the years. You'd think they'd really clamp on China and keep a very tight watch over their products. We can wield our power as a consumer by avoiding products from China. Send a clear message that's not only heard but soundly felt. If there's no demand, there goes the supply.

These hazardous products coming from China are quite a concern. China's disregards for human rights only reflects how it regards people. If they have no concern whatsoever for their own people, what more about others from different countries and cultures. Furthermore, a lot of these products seem to easily find their way to our shelves, through our own businesses and companies. The latest one is Mattel, which recalled millions of its toys due to hazardous substance(s). Over the years, how many toys had passed undetected? From other companies? It's easy to say that there are manufacturers here who also sometimes fail the safety and health standards of our society...however, we seem to be hearing about products from China more often than other countries. And it still goes on being the most mentioned country whenever we have a product-recall or a warning! So it suggests that there's really nothing serious being done (by China) to rectify the problem. Products from China are sold in practically all stores. I remember hearing from CTV, President Choice Albacore and white tuna were found to have mega-doses of lead....but I'm not sure if they came from China. Products from China range from toys to canned goods to fresh produce. I am dubious about those Fuji apples or those pears...thinking what had been done to have those fruits looking so fresh....and had they been handled and prepared properly? How can we consumers have guarantee that everything sold to us had been credibly and properly tested and approved? What can we do to protect ourselves?

Can you please provide the link to this particular survey you read? I'm interested...

Society dictating definitions, changing meanings, tweaking....to suit its need for the moment. In this case, the definition of marriage. Moral Relativism - that is a good example of what I've been explaining. I rest my case.

If the law legislates it, the car will get it - whether you care or not..

But that's the point. Child-rearing was a part of our values, and came just naturally....whereas polygamy isn't. So making it a law to legislate that it becomes "natural" is actually going against what you are advocating. There should be no legislations to make it legal!

Oy, I'm playing around with the new format! About the "friends" section...I wanted to copy August and put my name on Greg's firends' list,....I guess it doesn't work that way.

It was not legislated that children should be a parent's priority....even society's priority, since these are the future. That was without any question the priority of most members of society. There was never any doubt about the roles of parents in the lives of their children. Correct me if I'm wrong that there was no such specific legislation directed at that. It was one of our values - an unwritten code. That responsibility/priority came naturally. Ironically, it was legislation that changed all that. It might be just my imagination, but I do think people nowadays - adults - are so confused as to their roles. A sense of discontent ...to fill some sort of a void....seems to be the driving force. The sense of fulfilment seem to be ever shift-changing... more elusive.

Yes, society should care. If we're going to have to recognize your car as your wife...and entitle her to some rights afforded a spouse!

Yes. And that reflects our society now - the "I" or the "me" first, before all others. Children had taken a backseat when it comes to priorities. For a lot, children comes behind careers....for other, way down the line alongside pets. It may have been a good solution for some....but casualties abound. We are facing them right now. Some consequences for changes do not surface prominently untill several generations later. Society is making such quick decisions based more on whims to satisfy some. There should be serious impact studies done - REAL and GENUINE, CREDIBLE INDEPENDENT STUDIES , I must add, before we change things around.

I think the assumption makes some sense. If parents are granted the rights to incestuous relationships with their off-springs, how much difficult is it to convince the court that introduction to sex (for their own children) should also be granted as a right for parents. We all know that the first time experience can play such a significant impact on an individual....who else should know best what's good for their children other than their own parents? If NAMBLA is promoting the idea of positive sexual mentorship between man and boy, I don't think it will have any real obstacles standing in the way if the idea is "packaged, promoted and endorsed" by a well-funded and powerful lobby group who knows how to sell it to society. A parent can provide the best "mentorship" to his child, don't you think? After all, don't we learn values and other things from our parents? Sex is just taking that learning a step farther. These days, "packaging" is everything. If you take a close look how special interest ideas such as smoking, drinking and driving, etc.., have managed to become a huge success...you'll notice the pattern from the way it got promoted and sold to the public.

So if there's no set of rules for marriage, that means anything goes. Marriage will be open to anyone's interpretation. The law offers no guarantee for as we found out regarding the definiton of marriage for example, it can be bent. Btw, being an "adult" does not automatically equal having sound judgement.

You are right. I have lost some confidence with court rulings based on some recent developments. A lot of judges are appointees, and some judges can be swayed by some influences other than logic and rational thinking. While there is no denying that some rulings had been good for society....there's no denying either that there were some recent rulings that boggles the mind. Yes, there was a time when divorce was forbidden. But then it had been improved to make it possible for spouses to divorce if they are abused or unfaithful. Now however, you no longer need a reason....all you need to say is, "I want out." Decisions can swing from one extreme to the other.

I hope you are kidding when you said this.

We both are making assumptions at this point. You seem to base yours on logic and rational thinking (and there is no wrong in that)....in fact I'd very much would like to base mine on the same ground, HOWEVER....some recent developments (as pointed out by Capricorn) had made me base mine on that premise - precedence - what had been intolerable or "forbidden" before but has now become acceptable and considered mainstream. The line had been obscured. Society loves the gray zone. Relative morality rules! So the fact is: the pendulum could swing either way. My assumption cannot be farther from the truth anymore than yours is.

But they are not completely separate issues! A lot of young woemn nowadays are confused, or uncertain, or have problemas with self-worth.....what more when a lot of young girls are overweight. Why do we have problems with young teens getting seduced into prostitution....or suffering from unhealthy eating disorders...or getting into all sorts of drugs, involved in more crimes and misdemeanor, etc. Young girls/women in this day and age are more susceptible to being seduced and used! Btw another issue, what are the chances that pimps will marry the women they send out prostituting? Prostituion will most probably become leaglly recognized too, and can also be tweaked into becoming a sexual orientation. hey, if one gets a kick out of being a voyeur...or one who bares all infront of viewers....who's to say that a guy doesn't get a sexual kick out of the idea that his women are getting paid for sex, and the women getting a kick out of getting paid for it, just like the guys who pay for hookers get a kick out of paying for sex? After all, nothing is un-natural anymore. Nothing is deviant. Nobody's getting hurt, right? Everyone is consenting!

I've noticed from the news that I've seen over the years regarding polygamy...they always show the women doing the works (either farming, housechores, raising all the kids, baking and selling)...the husband seem to have the grand position as that of a sultan with his harem! Yes, I believe that a lot of these women have been brainwashed! Some women got into it in their moments of weakness when they were young and/or were troubled and confused. It is pandering to one of the classic male fantasies (up there alongside threesome and sandwiched between two buxom females)!

I didn't say making it legal or not depends on my understanding. All I did was ask a question....and truthful enough to admit that I don't understand it! Why, doesn't society ask questions about things around them? Why youth are joining gangs? Why inspite of all these information and help for women, there are still women suffering in abusive relationships? Etc.., For crying out loud, we can't even fix the kind of problems we are facing now regarding our youths....and here we are embarking on yet another possible reality that could have serious implications for the near future!

Pedophiles are saying that children are willing. NAMBLA is advocating this as a kind of "mentorship" for children. All they need is another so-called study that would validate and agree that children introduced to sex at an early age does not do them any harm....or/and it's actually good for them....and society will lap it all up! Someone might say, making an animal show the same capability as a human adult is putting unreasonable expectation towards the beast. The human would-be spouse of the beast could say of course his sweetheart is an adult (in his specie), consenting and wants the union as much as he does, that he and his sweetheart understands one another...after all, human couples from differing races can have a marital relationship even if they do not speak each other's language! If the Animal Rights movement says animals have rights....and human rights acknowledge that humans should have the freedom to to sexual orientation....then they're almost there! All I'm saying is.... if there is a will, there is a way. Once a law or a rule is bent....it can be manipulated.

You make it sound that this is ancient news. SSM came in when???? It usually takes more than several generation to see the impact of what had been done! The mushrooms of single parenthood we see nowadays and the ease of extrication from what should be lifelong commitments are the consequences of no-fault divorce. We do not yet know the real consequences of SSM. We've yet to wait for children (who are brought into these SSM, or who were brought up into this new "society") to grow up and become parents themselves and so on....wait til traces of people from the "old society" - those who thinks like me - die out. I'm willing to bet there will be major consequences (good or bad). You can't throw a pebble in the water and not expect any ripples.