betsy

"Rules of Engagement" was filmed when? I could just as easily recommend the movie "True Lies" when not only were they portrayed as greasy and evil....but stupid as well! Find a movie at the time of the cartoons to the present time....hardly anything there, which is very, very, very surprising! There is a dearth of action heroes these days(what with Willis really the only one left, and he don't have that much time to pull it off anymore)....and anyone or any major studio who'd want to package and market the next action star to take the place of Stallone and Schwarzennegger and Willis will have a great vehicle to stardom by making a movie battling the greatest threat to the world right now. It will be a blockbuster seeing there is a niche to be filled! So where is he? Some struggling unknown actor is willing somewhere I bet! What? Say that again? No one wants to produce this type of movie? No one wants to write the story and screenplay? No one wants to direct this type of movie? No one wants to distribute this type of movie?

Of course what media outlet would downright admit to fear? Admitting to succumb to initmidation and fear would definitely mean LOSS OF CREDIBILITY! And definitely the mood of appeasement that pervades a lot of democratic and western societies...a lot of whom tend to lean more to the left-wing idealogy also played a big role in this. Sure they want to say that they're "taking the higher ground." That's what they want to think they're doing....when actually, they're knocking down that very principle and freedom that is supposedly to be upheld by their profession at all cost! The few publishing houses valiantly stood their ground - not because they hated Muslims - but to uphold and fight for what they see as an attempt to tamper with this freedom of expression. They wanted to show that they would not be intimidated into silence....nor will they be manipulated or coersced to submission as to how or what opinion they want to give. Come to think of it, thanks for pointing that out. Indeed I do remember a movement by the Islamic community calling for a boycott of the Western Standard, one of those handful of publishers who stood up for the Right to Free Expression. As a matter of fact, some stores REFUSED TO CARRY that issue, further depriving the public of the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE - whether they would choose to join the boycott or not! Most of these store owners are said to belong to the Muslim Community. I wonder how the reaction would be if someone calls for a boycott of all businesses owned by Muslims? That call for boycott meant loss of sales and profits for the Western Standard! The Western Standard took a beating for that, thanks to the vigilance and knee-jerk response of the Muslim Community! And if I do remember it right, the Muslim Community even filed a lawsuit against the paper for publishing those cartoons. So yes....that is another good example of intimidation, AND reprisal that could happen to any businesses the Muslim community think is offensive or insulting! I guess that's the "positive" or "progressive" alternative....instead of throwing a bomb in the area...or beheading a journalist of that paper. That journalist named Pearl comes to mind - I don't know what he did why he was singled out for abduction and execution. But he was another example. Gagging of news reports and media happens mostly in third world countries ruled by tyrants and dictators. But that Western Standar gagging happened here in Canada. What HOT news isn't splashed anywhere and everywhere??? National newspapers include hollywood tabloid materials - that are controversial and sensational - and yet refuse to print out copies of said cartoons that became quite the sensation GLOBALLY, just because they were already available in some medial outlets? That I find so hard to believe! NO ONE WOULD WANT TO BE LEFT OUT OF ANY SENSATIONAL OR HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE! For the simple reason that they do add to sales! I am not talking of zero-courage when I say that there is fear of offending Muslims. There are those who refuse to be intimidated. Just like in war, there are those who will form and/or choose to join resistance groups to fight invaders while the rest of the population capitulate for whatever reasons. This forum is not a good example. How many posters would post downright criticisms or blatant support OF ANYTHING if we do not have anonymity? So did I. But I had to go through all the trouble of accessing the website and doing a search for those cartoons. I had hoped that these cartoons - for all the controversy and violence they've incited all over the world - would've been splashed on the front pages of every national newspapers. After all, a lot of these newspapers splashed someone like Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan or Mel Gibson for their "offensive" behaviours or outbursts. Hollywood belongs more in tabloids....but definitely those cartoons should've been on national newspapers. Publishing of those cartoons was definitely crucial information since the controversy was about the alleged insults of such depictions. So, show me those cartoons and let me decide for myself if I find them insulting or what! It is negligent reporting for any newspapers to published "half-baked" information....after all, they're into the business of providing credible current information.

Well I guess we'll never be on the same page since you cannot differentiate between the incidents of war you cited above from issuing a fatwa to a harmless civilian such as Rushdie, just for writing a book! Hello? Wakey-wakey.... Your link's title even says it all there - crimesofwar! And when I speak of despotic, I speak of leaders like the evil Saddam Hussein, or that ugly baboon ruling Zimbabwe (what's he called again?) who would think nothing of blowing your brains out just for the sheer fun of it. As for Israel "assassinating" their enemy...I'd say, good for them! No sense playing with gloves on! If I'm the head of Israel, I'd do the same! Heck, when you're at war...you fight to win! Anyway, this thread is not about war...nor about witch-hunting centuries ago. You're out of focus again! It's about why we are so afraid of offending Muslims. So come float down back over here - present time- and join us right on this topic.

Hmm...The Ayatollah made a public announcement when he decreed the fatwa on a harmless civilian like Rushdie, whose only "crime" was to write something that is deemed by Muslims as an insult to Allah. As to "extra judicial assasinations" carried out by certain governments....you must mean governments run by despotic leaders, which are no different than Iran, where human rights have no meaning at all. I suppose you miss my explanation to Melanie... How would you feel if a serial killer decides to fixate on you, announcing that he'll go after you - no matter what! I bet that you'll go all sweaty knowing that is quite an understatement. What about if you're not only talking of one psychopath who wants to see you die? Now compound that problem by adding an incentive to your slaughter - a price on your head. Plus the belief of religious fanatics that eliminating you is doing their god a great favor! Something seems terribly wrong with that statement. What exactly do you mean by that? Should Rushdie feel relieved, you think? Is it okay then for you? Do you think it's okay for any religious group to put a contract on your head and your family for any deemed insult you might have done or said?

Rushdie is just one of many Muslims who either spoke out, or had participated in depiction of scenes or actions that are deemed either insulting or against the religion (some of which are actors/actresses in movies branded as either controversials or "heretic"). Some of these people either went into hiding, or had to deal with the clamor for their "punishments" by protesting mobs or radical lobby groups in their own societies. Yes, they were able to express their opinion. BUT AT WHAT PRICE? Note that Rushdie's book was done and released on democratic soil. So did the murdered film director's movie! To think that if I would choose to lampoon or demonize Islam in my work of fiction as a creative writer (the way that others had creatively re-interpreted, demonized and lampooned the Christian religion) in a western society, that I may have to do it at my own risk? The current global situation involving radical Muslims make for excitable plot for thrillers and high-action films. WHY IS THERE HARDLY ANY MOVIE BEING MADE DEPICTING RADICAL MUSLIMS BEING THE BAD GUYS? What few movies that did eventually have their storylines either justifying the "angst", soliciting understaning for their actions.....and usually end up pointing the fingers of blame on the western government! What happened to good old movies like that portraying European/Russian/Asian mob guys as the bad guys in a straight movie? You'd think this is one area that hollywood would exploit and milk for all it's worth in the box-office! I would bet that producers, writers and even screen actors don't want to touch that one depicting Islam/Muslims as the bad guy....out of fear of reprisals! In other words, they were effectively being intimidated from practicing their creative freedom of expression! Melanie, you may think it is a laughing matter...and dismiss my concern, since you say after all, "they were published. They were widely seen." But have you noticed the violent reactions all over the world that followed? Not to mention the barrage of obvious attempts at appeasements from western societies? The message? "Everyone, pay close attention. This is the carnage that will happen everytime you say something that we don't agree with! People will die. And it is your fault." It's largely thanks to those few publishing houses that bravely stood up against this duck-tape attempt to control freedom of expression! Yes, you could say that. However, the murderer of John Lennon was just one looney tune. I don't see only one sole Muslim protester doing all these vandalisms and other acts of violence everytime something is said that insults them! We usually see a mob of loonies! Yes, stars do hire bodyguards for protection. I bet how many stars are willing to take the risks and pay for bodyguards to protect them (and their families) from radicals. It's one thing to look out for an odd would-be assailant in public.....and it's quite another to be on the fatwa list which means all radicals, including those that do take their religion seriously enough to go for you at all cost - including their willingness to die for that sole fixated purpose of seeing you die. Compound the incentive to kill you as a form of martyrdom! Can one afford to pay for enough bodyguards for life? Because this thing could last a lifetime, you know. Do you think Rushdie will ever live a normal life? Do you understand what that does to you psychologically? Rushdie was made as an example! It was made to have us all see how it must be to be in Rushdie's shoes! Have you ever imagined how life could be if a crazed psychopath is fixated and obsessed by you? Multiply that psychopath into hundreds! All over the world! As explained above, don't tell me intimidation and appeasement is just a figment of my imagination. I would say my "imagination" is more realistic - more understanding of the human psyche. I'd say my attempt at assessment is based on simple common sense. We are being "conditioned." You may have a lack of imagination or you just choose to see what you want to see.

Yes, I remember a time when several people were voicing their frustration, and the ensuing arguments escalated in that particular thread (can't remember which one), ending up getting locked. Charles, is there a possibility that a "notice" thread be in place so you can post which poster(s) was warned, suspended, or banned for what particular statement or incident? This will also make these mistakes serve as real samples as to what is not allowed on the board.

Why are we so afraid of offending muslims? Rushdie is a good example. For simply writing a book that muslims found was offensive (I don't know what part of it), a fatwa was issued on him. This is like being a witness to a mafia slaying - when contract killers are put on you. You're dead....or you run and change your identity. What about that European movie director who was killed by a Muslim who found his movie insulting? The cartoons? Even most media seem to walk on eggshells when talking about Islam or Muslims. The west had been effectively intimidated by Muslim radicals...and our current trend and penchant towards appeasement had only made that much simpler. We have bowed down to bullies. Plain and simple.

I'll say LOL I did read a couple of those Left Behind books after hearing about them on the other board, I wasn't impressed, plus they are fiction, nothing else. Same as the Da Vinci Code only that's written better and definitely more exciting. Sure like you Betsy I was aware of phrophecy and doom and gloom etc. but this push to denigrate that part of a religious belief is all part and parcel of the Christaphobia which has been manifesting itself in the last few years. All of which, stems from the anti Bush, anti U.S. phobias. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, sharia law is creeping in, as more universities give in to religious demands by other groups. Tell you what, I just picked up a movie titled "Left Behind" - because of this thread (read it from Jefferiah's post)....I'll watch it tonight. I love a good thriller - and no, I didn't bother watching Da Vinci Codes because of the bad reviews. As for the Revelation, I remember my dad telling me about the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse...that kind of stuff. But sometimes I come across movies that deals with prophecy or doomsday stuff.....like the sign that women will be barren, etc...but I can't tell what is pure fiction and contrived from what's really taken from the Bible. But there's something interesting happening lately wrt Christians...maybe I'm just imagining it or just being hopeful. But it does look like there is a sudden swing towards faith and belief again. I guess I better put another topic about it.

I cannot speak for Scribblett. But I, however can honestly say I have not read the book you're spouting about! I challenge you to prove where I said that I did read that book. I know telling lies and twisting of facts seem to come so easy with you.....but don't you be telling or maliciously insinuating lies about me on this board and expect it to go unchallenged! I hope I make myself clear. oh you make yourself loud and clear, though I can never quite figure out what, you go on and on about. see you quoted me above see those question marks? That means I am questioning, so I am not assuming, not stating you had, but questioning on recall. Learn to read, okay? did I make myself clear? Yes, very clear. You've made it clear that you, yourself do not understand the implications of what you've posted. Nor do you understand the meaning of some words! Yes, you put that first as a question ...and yet you followed it up with this, in bold statements: Do you understand this statement? Learn to read, okay? And use the dictionary if some words are not clear to you. Instead of embarrassingly squirming out evertime you put your foot in your mouth, at least have the spine to stand up to your mistake. We all make fools of ourselves every now and then....although in your case, it does seem more often. But anyway, who knows maybe it's not your fault. In the end science might prove it's in your genes.

Religion is the best area to do some serious money-making scheme. And they are nowhere confined to Christian religion alone - although the Christian religion is the best target for it due to its doctrine about unselfishness and giving. So these cults come up like mushrooms. Jefferiah -if I'm not mistaken - had mentioned about a new "power" religion that offer quick riches. True or classic Christians could quickly see through to that right off the bat! Since when was how-to acquire riches - unless they're speaking of spiritual "riches" - ever one of the teachings of Christ? On the contrary! As a matter of fact, forsaking material riches is one of the most important messages of Christ. Hence there are orders of nuns or priests who forsake their worldly possessions, living as spartanly as possible, and vowing to poverty. But of course, there are those wolves in sheeps' clothings. Telling lies and twisting the words of Christ for whatever purpose it may suit them. Misleading people. Leading and guiding them away, instead of closer to God. That's why Christ had warned us to beware of those who speak in His name. Some non-believers do not understand that for how could they if they do not know much about the teachings of the Man that Christians are trying to follow. If they had not read the New Testament? I, myself have to confess that I have never really read the Bible in all its entirety. I would like to be able to do the same as my Dad, reading a segment each day...from the beginning to the end. Then start all over again. And yet there are those who profess to be so well-read...following up and reading all sorts of books about these cults....and yet showing so much ignorance of the original source from which these cults are said to be based. It is hard to believe that with all these obvious interest and fixation on Christian beliefs, one would think that they would sensibly understand first what the main source is all about! If they do not wish to, then, fine! But to go on a rant and an all-out disdainful criticism, lumping everyone? Why....that is like someone jumping in on a fray blindly swinging away...without even realizing who they're fighting with or what they're brawling about! This is not rational thinking. This is extremism as its best....by some anti-Christians fueled by just one purpose. That's how I see some of these people. I'm reminded by an old, old cartoon about someone shadow-boxing by a wall, showing all bravado and fierceness...until suddenly, his own shadow reached out and gave him a big solid one. Knocked-out by his own shadow. It is comedic, actually.

I cannot speak for Scribblett. But I, however can honestly say I have not read the book you're spouting about! I challenge you to prove where I said that I did read that book. I know telling lies and twisting of facts seem to come so easy with you.....but don't you be telling or maliciously insinuating lies about me on this board and expect it to go unchallenged! I hope I make myself clear. Well too bad to disappoint you...but like I said, I never heard of this Christian "rapture". It may be your habit to check out all the news sites...but that is you! I am not you (Thank God). See your flawed logic? Just because you go to all these news sites and read all these books, therefore you conclude that everybody must be doing the same thing! FYI, a lot of extremists....and kooks think that way! Some would say that is being "narrow-minded." While others wouldn't be as kind. Sheeesh!

What makes you say that? You know the old adage...."if your mind is muddled and you're not sure of what you're saying, better zip it...or it might boomerang right back at you." Like this next one.... I never said it didn't exist in other areas - extremism that is. What I said is that ALL major religions doctorines can be used to justify extremist beliefs and actions. Sheesh Buffy - do you actually ever read - AND UNDERSTAND - what someone writes - or just assume and wing it? I never said you said it doesn't exist in other areas - extremism that is. I'm just giving my point of view on this issue. I have expanded on my views a bit hence I even gave the example of the enivironmetalists who wants us all to become vegans to save the earth! So it is about Christian extremism! But about EXTREMISM, nonetheless! So they are moving more into the mainstream...why is that so surprising in this day and age? Who would've thought Wiccan practice or practices loosely-based on Wiccan would become mainstream now? Such as candle-burning, as an example. NOT THAT I'M SAYING they are extremists....I'm just saying how easily something that starts out small can become a "trend"....or very much "in". But yes, I'd bet your bottom bippy there are some whom you would call "kooks"... And yes, some small groups can have the political clout! Look at MADD (that's the only thing that comes to mind right now), as an example! Decipher it yourself! It's hidden there somewhere. And don't nag me if you can't find it!: Sheeesh....

I'm not kidding. Well, actually I may seem like a "fanatical zealot" - at least as some atheists or agnostics see or want to think of me - in my debates here on religion, but in reality I can't even remember when was it the last time I entered a church. No, it's no guarded secret. Wasn't that Jones guy who gave cyanide to his flocks sort of Christian-based? I'm not sure. And yes, going by the cashier in grocery stores I see headlines on those really fringey type of tabloid announcing the propehsy...or the doomsday or whatever. Hey, if these kind of reading materials sell (and obviously they do), there must be a sizeable market for them. But as to details of fringe-beliefs such as this rapture - never heard.

Extremism does not exists ONLY in MAJOR religious doctrines - AND NOT ONLY in religious doctrines! Some environmentalists advocate - and some even demand- becoming vegans, as an example! Unless these vegans worship the cow...or animals as their deity or god....I'd say it is not a religious doctrine! Some so-called non-religious or atheist or agnostics go to the extremes of lumping all cults and off-shoots loosely-based on a certain major religious doctrine - in this example, Christianity - wilfully ignoring (either out of utter ignorance, or stupidity, or devoid of any sophisticated capability to look beyond and comprehend, or malicious trash mentality that only seeks to malign at all costs, etc.) the fact that whether these so-called rapture groups are a small fringe...or becoming mainstream (as in trends)....the fact still remains that some of their beliefs, if not all are not normally in most legitimate (for lack of better word) Christian groups. So, yes, as in all things - not only in religion - there are extremists, and "KOOKS". It is an interesting thread though...for it informed me that such things like this rapture-thingy exists.

Groupthink - must've been inspired by "grouphug?"

This thread is not necessary. What little attempt at making an issue out of it could've easily been posted on the other thread...after all, they're by the same poster, and nothing really new about this second one.

I only heard of this "rapture" thingy on this board.

But the possibility is there! To conclude that it cannot be does not have any credibility either, since it also has not been proven. One thing is for sure: this cat had attracted the attention of the medical field.

Mind you, I do agree that religious schools should not be funded by the public. It should be funded by their respective followers. That being said, religious schools should have the freedom to teach their doctrines to their students, without the interference of the government...as long as no crimes are being comitted and no laws being broken. At a call-in talk show, several people voiced their concern that at public schools, trends are being taught....one caller gave homosexual lifestyle as an example. A couple fo people who said they are not really religious but that they're happy with the quality of teaching their kids are getting at a Catholic shool.

It is not being pinned on Mr. Harper's door but it simply the fact Mr. Harper is carrying on 'the totalitarian tradition' when you said Mr. Harper is a principled person. Harper is in an un-enviable position right now. For someone like him who obviously was principled when he started out (and I am not saying he is not a principled man now), it must be much harder for him, killing him inside knowing he has to set aside some of his principles: that, or losing the foothold the Conservatives has on power. The Conservatives are hanging on by their fingertips...and losing it now would mean the Conservatives may not see the chance to ever sit again as Prime Minister for a lifetime. Society is peopled mostly by voters who had been pandered to, indoctrined to and known only of Liberal idealogy. These voters had also been brainwashed to associate Conservative idealogy to Hitler, Supremacists, racism, hostility to immigrants...therefore they regard Conservatives with an almost built-in skepticism. If the Liberals win again....the next generation will go through the same indoctrination. SO it may be a Liberal - or a very socialist party that will be in power for generations to come. The Conservatives know that they have to change this attitude...this frame of mind of the people about them. They know the people need to be "de-programmed". But how do they go about doing that? It is depressing, the way our society is going down. And yes, I do agree with your view that Canada is only enjoying a semblance of democracy that we are being allowed to enjoy. And I do pin the blame on that on the socialist-huggers who had propped up socialist-leaners like the Liberals and the NDP! The focused goal for universal daycare (having complete access to our children starting from infancy), the focused fight to have the gun registry (to know who have arms, and could easily lead to dis-arming the population), every concievable social programs that has the large segment of society dependent on the government (for better control and manipulations).....are signs of what is up ahead. The question is: do we as Conservatives hammer Harper now and split the party...at the most crucial time? So we portray Harper now as a poor choice for us Conservatives - meaning then that he is a poor choice to lead the nation! That is the message we're giving. And we are providing the oppositions with valuable tools to blow our party to smithereens! When one is in politics...it is hard to remain quite principled, I guess. Let us be realistic.

Being "principled" as in opposed to being self-serving. Uprightness. With integrity. Motivated by the belief of doing what is right. Motivated by the belief of doing what is right. Interesting, but again these beliefs must be based on something and if it is NOT based on morals or a defined standard of rightness, 'principled' cannot really be used. Therefore all politicians in Canada would be classified as 'unprincipled' since none follow morals or a defined standard of rightness. Would you agree or disagree that this is the case ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adj. 1. principled - based on or manifesting objectively defined standards of rightness or morality; "principled pragmatism and unprincipled expediency"; "a principled person" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/principled ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let me correct my statement. Motivated by the belief of doing what he believes is right. As I've said in the previous post, his principles may not be the same as that of others. One of the principles he stood on during the time of debate in Parliament around the time the USA was issuing a threat to bomb Iraq, or had just bombed it (can't remember exactly)....Harper had spoke of the obligation to aid an ally and neighbor. It was that moment I had come to admire Harper, as he stood up alone in Parliament, staunchly debating for help to the USA.....knowing by doing so with the clime of anti-Bush and anti-Americanism could've meant the end of his political career. Some of us (for whatever reasons) may not see coming to the rescue of a friend in need, or fulfillment of an obligation and duty to stand side-by-side with an ally (especially one we've stood beside with before in other wars) as a matter of having principles, but there are those who see and believe it that way (for whatever reasons). The definition from webster: Principle - a fundamental truth, law, doctrine, or motivating force, upon which others are based [moral principles], A rule of conduct esp. of right conduct, such rules collectively, adherence to them; integrity, uprightness [a man of principle] Principled - having principles, as of conduct: often in hyphenated compounds [high-principled]

But how do we explain the "training" of cuddling with the dying patient - within 4 hours of death- and this cat is normally aloof. Unless he's been introduced to cuddling, whether accidental or not, and that taught him. The article does not say.

I don't think we can compare predicting tremors to death. It is quite easy to understand that animals can sense vibrations that we could not detect...same us they hear sounds we could not. I have no doubt that some animals had shown baffling talents like your cat, or the ones we sometimes read in the news that saved its master from certain death. The question is, how many times did these animals did their intriguing talent? If it's only once....we could easily say it must be a fluke or a coincidence. One thing though, Oscar's patients are suffering from dementia or alszheimer so we could assume that they're unaware of what Oscar's sudden friendliness would mean.

Laboured breathing? Rotting flesh? Dogs have been trained to detect cancer using normal scent-hound training techniques. Yes, the kitty providing sympathy and warmth for patients in their final moments is an interesting, unusual, and sort of touching story. But we know of many instances where the exceptionally acute senses of our furry little friends can detect things that are undetectable to human sense. I see a scientific explanation as being a lot more likely than something the supernatural. Animals using their senses to detect human medical conditions has been documented; I'm not aware of any documented cases of animals interacting with the supernatural. Oscar might be a Very Special Kitty, but I'm not prepared to believe he's a Magic Kitty just yet. -k Yes, I've heard of dogs being trained to detect illnes...however, we're talking of training. As to how these training are done I have no idea. How many percentage of accuracy I have no idea. But Oscar is a natural. 25 cases - that's a track record hard to beat.

I too think that there might be some scientific explanations....the same possibility that it might be supernatural or spiritual. The spiritual/supernatural expalanation may provide proof of life after death. Who knows, perhaps scientific research may end up supporting the theory of life after death. The thing is, not all dogs can detect impending death nor did I ever hear of any particular dog showing the same skill/prowess several times. And this cat is the only one so far with this uncanny ability and incredible track record. So there is no way we can say this was just a coincidence. We're talking about death coming within 4 hours. Do the dying emit some sort of a scent? If it is the scent that attracts the cat...then it would only be reasonable to assume that the cat would be sniffing...and that gesture would've been noticed by the staff, especially when this cat's ability is well-known and quite intriguing. Why does this cat - who is normally aloof - would wish to cuddle with someone who's dying? Something attracts the cat to the dying. Something that makes the cat wants to cuddle. Therefore, whatever it is, is something that feels pleasant for the cat.