betsy

Science is saying something's wrong with the brains of psychopaths hence they can't distinguish right from wrong. Who's to say that psychoanalysis is right? Let alone amateur psychoanalysis? Most of Germany rallied behind Hitler, and approved the persecution/annihiliation of Jews. They saw the same "good" in that....they derived from what Hitler was saying what they wanted to say!

Doesn't only apply to the religious. AlQaeda's motivation is faith-based, but I don't think Hitler's was. The Rwanda massacre, PolPot, etc.., these are not religion-based....

That's the whole point, isn't it? Choice. That's why I'm glad you got it.

You didn't read the whole analogy. You didn't read the story about the salesman. There's more before that part which you quoted. I'd gladly re-post that here...but have to fix dinner now. Maybe later.

deleted. double posting.

At last! Somebody saw the "light!" Well I'm glad you and Cybercoma both agree with the analogy. At least you guys actually understand that there's no reason to be so irrationally angry everytime somebody spouts religion....treat it like any other salesperson. The way some carry on you'd think they're getting prodded by a pitchfork. You don't like it, don't buy. Is all. No need to go through all the histrionics!

I'm not referring to the existence of God in this excerpt. Ignore that part about Pastor Price's conclusion regarding the existence of God. I gave the excerpt because it talked about evil. Don't you agree that no one says "I'm going to do evil." There is always a justification of good. Why is there always a need for good?

I know YOU think that no one has the right to tell you what to do with your body. You've defined society's justification for the murder of babies. It's a woman's right.

Quite timely and right on cue, Charles Price started a 6-part series called KNOWING GOD. This transcript excerpt from part 1 Existence of God....which started yesterday, incidentally talked about Creation. This might somehow help with this discussion. http://www.livingtruth.ca/pdf/transcriptions/KNG/KNG_1.pdf

Who? Don't know the guy. Re: Jesus Camp, how did I "fly off the handle?"

Timothy17 has it pretty well summed up! Just some further advice - if you're concerned about a bad tenant, check out the landlord and tenant act! And if you don't want someone in your romb, keep the door closed.

Thanks for getting it back up.

And I do sincerely apologise - again - for confusing you with someone from the link. I don't deny that I was angry with those comments made by those people directed to an 8 year old girl. I have legitimate reasons to be upset. Any normal person - I hope - would be upset reading those vicious violent fantasies/comments directed at a child. The child in question was not anonymous. She got a name and a face. But it depends on what you mean by "fly-off-the-handle." Did you mean because I kept on posting about it? Sure I did....BECAUSE you kept downplaying the comments. You were in a way trying to justify the viciousness of their comment. Did you mean because I end up giving insults too when arguments get downright nasty? My dear, we are in a forum....we tend to get carried away when we debate. The more we are prolific in debating, and depending on the subject too...the more likelihood of getting into those debates that spiral down to trash. I'd say Jesus Camp was actually mild. Anyway I don't see what's your point whether if ever I do have "anger issue." By equating me with a wild-eyed dude, and by your other adhominem ...you already see me as a "lunatic religious fundamentalist." What I'm saying is that YOU ARE JUST LIKE ME. But obviously you missed my point about the "anger issues" I'm talking on this thread God vs Science. I am talking about irrational anger. Irrational reactions. Actually, by bringing up the dead Jesus Camp....another irony had occurred. You only illustrated...and supported what God vs Science is all about. The only difference is that we called it by another name then: FANATICS. It emphasized that there are wing-nuts in both the religious and non-religious camp. Zealotry. Collective frenzy (displayed by some voodoo practitioners), hypocrisy and intolerance....all the usual things that made you abhor religion - it's also here, displayed by you. Thus I see atheism as just another religion (for some atheists)...because of their own behaviour/reaction. This thread is merely another mirror that I hold up, 5 years later...so you may see your own reflection. Is all. PS. And you do have anger issues. You were actually "grilled" about that in Jesus Camp by other posters who noticed. Go back and re-read the whole transcript. Sometimes it helps in hindsight to see the picture from a different angle. Anyway, I don't hate you, Kimmy. I was upset...but I bear you no anger.

Yup. Ressurected. I must say, it was enjoyable. Sure there were some insults flying....but that's part of heated debate sometimes. We managed to get to page 16 without trashing the thread.

Well, actually that Jesus Camp was a very interesting debate. I want to re-read. Some views then are still relevant to this topic. Jesus Camp http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7231&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1 A lot of interesting posters we used to have then that no longer are here today....where are they?

Sorry, I cannot hand-guide you every step of the way. You've got to read back if you must to understand. Look Pinko, you went off-topic in another thread posted by Jonsa. Nobody made a big deal out of it. It was just ignored. IF you find I'm off-topic here....kindly just ignore me.

Just so to point out what the comments on you-tube were all about: Jesus Camp http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7231&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1 http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7231&st=45

Of course it's still very much on topic! Kindly review what this whole topic is all about. Anyway, that's actually been put to rest. This touched on a past issue - brought forward by Kimmy - but along the same point.

Was it under title "Jesus Camp?" I tried a search but it came back to say it's over the 200-something. Thank you for the post, Waldo. Btw, can you post the access link to it please? I remember it was a very heated debate. I think any sensible person here, especially a parent, would understand my outrage. What was happening to that little girl then was what we call CYBER BULLYING now. I cannot...cannot just sit by and "discuss" the issue without doing anything while that girl was being bullied before my eyes. That link to you-tube was there. I wanted to let the girl and her parents know that they were not alone, and someone else is saying that what was being done to the girl was just plainly wrong. If I mistook you for someone else in that argument....then I apologise. But that does not necessarily mean you're off the hook. It doesn't matter whether your assumption is correct or not. Whether you think it might have been an exaggeration on their part is not the issue. A little girl was still being bullied online! For what? For running around and saying...."Jesus loves you." So a gang mentality....mob mentality...a collective bashing by a couple or more of them, posting what they'd love to do to her. Just because her belief contradicts their own. That made it worse. It was also BIGOTRY! In this case, bigotry based on religious belief. Supposed-adults cannot even control themselves to ignore a little girl. Why can't they just leave her....move along, walk away....just as you adviced on your first post in Creation - an advice you didn't apply to yourself btw. That was in 2006. Now in 2011.....it's already been acknowledged that bullying - especially cyber bullying - is a problem. Actually it is surprising that you bring that issue up....and FAULT ME - ME!- for my reaction to that bullying. Obviously you went back to you-tube and continued reading the responses there....that's why you knew I posted an outraged reply. It was a stinging reply but nothing quite like irrational comments such as "I hate you!" or "I feel contempt for you!" And if memory serves me right, I only made one post. I did not keep going back. I said my piece and I conveyed my support to the girl and her parents. I did not continue to poke at those bullies....nor did I stalk....and harrass them. It might've served as a perversed kind of entertainment for some though, to follow a thread that was nothing more than a gang-bang on a little Christian girl online. In that case, what a truly pathetic society we've become. Did you post anything to rebuke the bullies' behaviour in any way? You criticized me for taking an account on you-tube just so I could respond to those bullies. Just because of the way you worded your statement regarding that issue, and the way you interpreted my reaction, ....I cannot help but ask, were you one of those who posted their hatred and venom? Were you really against it or were you actually part of it?

No. Just plain indignant about your mean streak, as any normal person should....regardless of religion or belief. As usual, you distort the truth how it really happened. I am but forced to make a correction. The original poster gave a link to you-tube. (Was that you?) It was about a girl (quite young...maybe 8 or 9 years old?) As I remember it, this little girl was going around to people saying something like...."Jesus loves you." Some people became outright angry towards the girl because of this and posted nasty things about her on you-tube. The parents of the girl expressed fear/concern for their daughter. Our debate on that topic got centered around the way people (adults) reacted towards the little girl in question. You said, had the little girl approached you, you would've slapped her in the face! There was only a few of us who found your answer so appalling. My outraged reaction was not because you wanted to slap a little girl for saying "Jesus loves you." My outraged reaction was because you wanted to slap a little girl for saying something so innocent....she could just as easily be selling cookies to you! I remember your statement of wanting to physically hurt the girl...irrational statement (of a violent nature at that) is not that easy to forget. It was surreal. It's like watching Clockwork Orange....the way you took that in and reacted! I went on you-tube to give my opinion of what I think about the way these supposed adults were reacting towards a little girl. My heart went to the little girl...because of her age...her innocence. I would have done the same had she been an atheist girl who's saying "there is no God." I searched for that particular thread "Jesus Camp" but it cannot be accessed. Perhaps a formal request to Greg will make it possible....just to settle this if need be. As for who really maliciously distorts....I think just a quick review of the discussion here, especially on the referred post numbers, is sufficient evidence enough to show who could lie so glibly.

You forgot to add proponents of baby-killing!

I saw tv W5 segment about a guy (can't remember name) who got cancer. A pill that's supposed to increase his chances of survival was just too expensive for healthcare to provide. He died. I don't have anything against anyone taking the Dorian pill if they can afford it....as long as we, the taxpayers, don't have to pay for it. I can't afford that! I'll just shrug it off and continue living what's left of my life.

Existence of other solar systems is a given. No new news here. Chance of life existing in planets in those solar systems is no better than it is for earth to have life by chance! Chance of impossible chance recurring twice must be doubly impossible. All this does is support the requirement for Intelligent Design.

As I've stated, there's nothing wrong in being optimistic and wishful. We've been all alone for eons...of course it's exciting to find new life! As for the new "Earth-like" planets, this is how it's been reported (in a nutshell): http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20100726/nasa-new-planets-100726/ This does not conclude that therefore, "we aren't." This is still using a "fine-toothed comb" ....that doesn't prove anything on top of that.