betsy

The poet does not say this is the only planet. The poet does not say this is the only inhabited planet. The poet asks why with such vast amount of space with universe/galaxies exposed to us by science, not a single one of the ZILLIONS could even come close to being similar with that of earth. After all, if we are in a "habitable zone" - and obviously we are - how come then are we the only one existing in this habitable zone? Yes. And universes and galaxies! We've already taken a look OUTSIDE our zone! And going farther. Other than with all these ZILLIONS of heavenly bodies both in our habitable zone and way, way out there....there is nothing like Earth! The poet is not even looking for something identical to Earth. She's merely questioning why....why there isn't even a single one that shows definite life! Why with life TEEMING on Earth....science need a fine-tooth comb looking for anything that would suggest even just a hint of life from the ZILLIONS out there? Nothing wrong with being wishful. Optimistic. Hopeful. Through the alleged EMPIRICAL EVIDENCES provided by YOUR SCIENCE, of course! Not unless you doubt your science.

Poem. Amateurish perhaps...but a poem nevertheless. Is that your alternative poem? Very short.

This thought was inspired by Psalm 104. Not as poetic yet let it please come as another psalm….that of praise to and glorification of my Creator. It comes from the heart. When I look around, down and above me, all I see is an existence so finely-tuned that it can never be the result of pure chance. Why does everything follow a pattern? Why does everything have a function? From the complexities of the heart…to the intricacies of the human brain? Why do we rely on plants to live? Why do we need water? Why do we, and plants and other animals rely on the sun? Why do some rely on darkness? Why do we need one another? Each other? Why is everything we need provided? Why is there life and death? Why is there a beginning and an end? Huble discovered that universes and galaxies also begin and end. Even out there, there is life and death. Science gave us something to behold. I see a beautiful earth from the photos taken from space. Why is earth the only planet in the vast universe that looks so vibrant and so very much alive? Teeming with life! Why does not it look like a barren rock? That only offers a hint…or miniscule traces of life? Why…why is it that with such vastness of discovered universes and space, not even one other heavenly body even come close to the way Earth looks? Why is the recurring theme of existence that of being a puzzle piece in the grand scheme of things… ….of reliance… ….of life and death? Even science plays its designated role. It offers empirical evidences for all to see! It is the vehicle of knowledge and understanding. Its duty is to magnify….to emphasize….the works of our Creator. Reminding us of our purpose. Of our reliance in our Creator. Life and death so prominently underlined….. So it can only be, by our own free will, that we can decide if we want to live forever.

What is your explanation as to the cause of the universe? Of course I know it won't be your explanation....but it should be the explanation you support. This is the issue and you haven't provided an answer. Avoiding providing an answer isn't an answer. "End of story."

Which one from your list do you want as your alternative? Once you decide, support it.

So, sticking within the context that pertains to that particular atheist man Bill and I were talking about....how does your statement relate to what we're discussing? Can you expand what you mean by that.

I would also like to add.... Another important and beautiful connection between The Old and The New is the Tree of Life (which means immortality). The Tree of Life was mentioned in Genesis 2:9 and in Revelation 22:14...in the beginning and in the end.... thus it can be seen from a Christian point of view that of Paradise Lost (Genesis), and Paradise Regained (Revelation). It is also important to take note that The Old Testament was actually for the Jews (take into consideration the customs of the time), which are the Chosen People of God. The laws and strict stipulations given by God to the Jews were such because they were supposed to be a holy people...a "nation of priests," supposed to spread news of God to the outside world. The Old Testament shows that through generations, the Jews went on in a continuous cycle of defiance, punishment by God, repentance and forgiveness by God.

Human nature. All have the same instinct to know what is right and wrong. Regardless of religion. That statement somehow seem to support...or runs along the same vein...with the Christian interpretation/belief that we've all been "hardwired" by God to somehow know the difference between right and wrong....regardless whether one's been introduced to religion or not.

I can relate to him. I felt a void. I was restless. Something was missing. His testimony answered the uncertainty I've mentioned to Jonsa. An atheist who's been raised as an atheist all his life, by family that's hostile to religion at that....could also feel the same way I do, who's been born and raised a Christian. It may be false light to you....but obviously for this man, it's not. He found what he's been longing for all these years. He spoke of his longings being filled by Christ. If he says it was Christ who filled that "longing,"....and even still speaks about it publicly years after it happened, then why is it so hard to accept ...or why is it so hard to just leave it at that....that what he is saying is true? He was the one who had the longing. He was the one who was feeling it. Obviously, he is the one who can decide if he is satisfied or not. He's the one who can say if the longing's finally filled. He's the one who can say if he's found his answer. He is, after all, talking about himself.

My husband says Lee Strobel's books are good. He is a journalist and he does his books in the form of journalistic information. Btw, have you read the book, "Who Moved The Stone?" by Frank Morrison? I have not, but Charles Price talked about it...if I'm not mistaken, Morrison was trying to de-bunk the Resurrection (with it proven false, it would've meant the end of Christianity). He got converted instead.

Oh okay. Thanks. It's just because of the introduction to this thread about Lucifer/Satan in that context.

No, I have not read any of these books. I learned of Lee Strobel while engaged in a debate here on this forum. The title of the thread is "Rejoice on This Day." It gives a list of prominent atheists who ended up converting to Christianity, and provided the link to my sources. Lukin, for me it is heartwarming to read of those people mentioned on that thread. Some of those former atheists set out on an investigative mission to debunk the Christian Faith....only to find themselves believers. I listen to the Pastor Charles Price of the Living Truth Canada, based in Toronto I think. It is an ecumenical ministry. He makes it seem so simple to understand the Bible....speaking in our present day language. His sermon doesn't sound like a sermon. It's more like an in-depth workshop. His emphasis is on reading and sticking to the Bible and having a personal relationship with Christ. Inviting Christ in your heart. Letting Christ do his work through you. My attitude and views changed dramatically. There are different series touching on different subjects. He's on every Sunday on CTS and CTV. The website got lots of resources....including transcripts of his series which you can access. http://www.livingtruth.ca/Res-TRAN.asp'>http://www.livingtruth.ca/Res-TRAN.asp I recommend you give him a try. http://www.livingtruth.ca/

I was born and raised a Catholic but never really took religion seriously. I strayed away actually. At a later stage in life, I felt this void deep inside. Something was terribly missing and I knew I had trouble with my faith. I stumbled on to Pastor Charles Price (Living Truth Ministry) while he was talking about Abraham: The Rocky Road to Faith. The way he read and explained passages from the Bible seemed so easy and simple that I began reading the Bible. If I want to fear, love and obey my Lord, I have to know what He wants. I don't want to be misled. By that I mean by preachers or religion who inject their own rules and man-made laws and rituals to the doctrine. I find Pastor Price to be credible, and stays true to the Word of God. Maybe because I was born and raised a Christian that's why somehow faith is already in me...the spark already there, and it just needed some working on. I don't know about atheists, especially if you've been an atheist all your life. The next day after I wrote this reply, a man was being interviewed in a Christian radio station. I don't know who he is, or what he do (I think he might be a writer of Christian books)....but he said something that made me think of you. He grew up in an atheist family. When he was young (he didn't say how young), he found Billy Graham on tv. He said he accepted Christ in that living room, and became a convert. He kept this quiet from his family because they were very hostile to religion. He's married now to a Christian wife. He said the longing he'd had all these years was finally filled by Christ. He used the word "longing."

Another alternative is that there is no such thing as God other than in your imagination. That's what these folks keep reiterating. Pinko, are you saying this to me......or to yourself? You don't need to answer.

Okay. I guess a better question would be.....do atheists in this modern world use the word "evil" to describe something abhorrent?

And Jesus said in the New testament that He (Jesus) did not come to replace or erase laws of the Old Testament. He'd come to emphasize them....(not verbatim.) Actually, Jesus did expand on the Laws or the Commandments of God.

So true. The Catholic church clearly violates some very important teachings: Christ is the ONLY way to God. He is the only one who can intercede for us. No saints, not the Virgin Mary. We do not kneel before any other graven images. No paganistic rituals and repetitous prayers! The blueprint for the prayer was given by Jesus - The Lord's Prayer. These are the only things that come to mind at present.

Don't get me wrong. I believe you when you say you've abandoned Christianity. I'm just pointing out that the usage of the term "evil" that you'd associated with an abhorrent crime clearly shows relevance of Christianity even now in 2011. You also seem to feel so strongly about it given the way you'd made a point of begging to disagree with the other poster. If I am mistaken, can you explain why you'd chosen that word.

I am not so sure I agree with you. I would like to use the example of the pedophile and the exploitation of children in such circumstances. In my view such conduct is clearly evil in nature. I would like to recommend several books written by M. Scott Peck. In addition to his book The Road Less Travelled he has written several books on the nature of evil. As I recall both he and his wife are psychiatrists speaking from a Christian perspective as well as that of clinicians. Just the way you chose to use the word "evil" to describe paedophiles shows that Christianity is not irrelevant. Paedophilia is so abhorrent that you saw it as evil. I agree with you. Even though you've abandoned Christianity....you have not "totally cut the ties." I agree with Michael H. said, it is still in you. Paedophiles are not called "evil" these days....I've yet to come across media who would use the term evil to describe pedophiles. They are "sick" people.

I agree, I'm not going to change any minds here. Outside the forum, I do not engage anyone in any religious discussion. I also try to avoid Witness knocking on the door, nor do I wish to be bothered by salespeople or telemarketeers. Do these atheists in question react so irrationaly hostile towards sales people, I wonder. I do not knock on their door. I do not twist arms forcing them to enter my topic. I do not do any false-advertising to trick them to come to my topic. And yet, they couldn't help but come anyway. Clearly, there is a deadly attraction to the subject, Faith and God. This thread is meant to show that certain types of atheists (like the rabid ones who actually do not wish to engage in a civil discussion) are either... having trouble with their own atheistic belief , that's why perhaps they like to silence me so they wouldn't be reminded of their own insecurity. Perhaps a tug-o-war is being fought deep inside. Image of a person covering both ears and yelling stop it! stop it! stop it! comes to mind. Image of a person singing a sing-song la-la-la-la at the top of his voice to drown out what he doesn't want to hear also come to mind. ....or they can be compared to irrational religious fundamentalists. That atheism is their religion. Protective of their own...and see me as "poaching" among its "congregation." Well I think I've already illustrated what I'm on about. It's time I put this topic to rest.

I could understand a "drive-by" comment. Make a statement then poof....gone! But that's just it. If someone doesn't like this proselytizing, hypocritical beotch....why keep coming back?

As you've explained above, you don't even like the way I conduct myself in discussions, and actually called me a troll. Of course, why shouldn't I roll my eyes like this... You went about the usual long, winded, merry-go-round of yada-yada...and yet you never answered the question: Why can't you keep away?

Some of the rabid posts that follow after my reply to Kimmy's last post conveniently overlooked or deliberately ignored how the episode between Kimmy and me started. Proving that to these types of troubled atheists.... ....truth is relative. ....they just see what they want to see. ....roundabout-usual twisting about - distorting - going off-except-to-the-point being presented....is just how they choose to engage. There is no real wish for objective discussion with this folks. The solution is so simple. Ignore me, and what I say. Keep away. Don't even bother coming to the thread. As Cybercoma had said, I am "irrationally immovable." So why do you bother? Why are these folks irresistibly drawn to the very thing they so loudly claim to abhor? Like nails to magnet? Moths to flame? As I've already vented out on Kimmy, I do not hate her. And I feel no anger towards Cybercoma or Gosthack. I say again....who knows. Perhaps God is knocking....but they aren't listening. Paul of Tarsus rabidly hated and persecuted Christians, to the point of pursuing them earnestly....and became an Apostle.

Jonsa, in your heart, have you tried talking to God? In your own words. Telling him about your quest....even as you say, to acquire faith. With all humility and sincerity, you might be surprised. Christians are adviced to pray for understanding when reading the Bible.

Whatever...