betsy

https://www.gaychurch.org/homosexuality-and-the-bible/the-bible-christianity-and-homosexuality/ Here's the rebuttal: https://www.gotquestions.org/arsenokoitai.html

Irrelevant.

This is the thread to discuss whether homosexuality indeed, is not acceptable to God, or if it is. One of our posters is very much into this discussion, so I think it best to have a separate thread for it. I had looked up some arguments being made for homosexuality - that basically says, "it's all a misunderstanding, something was wrong with the translation and context." I would like to tackle some arguments from GayChurch.org. In the Creation Narrative of Adam and Eve, https://www.gaychurch.org/homosexuality-and-the-bible/the-bible-christianity-and-homosexuality/ Adam and Eve narrative is not merely given as a procreation story. It goes well beyond the physical union of a man and a woman. Genesis 2 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Why do you have to leave your parents if it's just to procreate? It's a whole lot more than just that. Adam and Eve narrative, is given as the history of the institution of marriage (the union between a man and a woman ), and family. To become one flesh - meaning to be one spiritually, emotionally, financially, intellectually. https://www.gotquestions.org/one-flesh-marriage.html To be continued....

How are homosexuals reviled? By adhering to one's religious belief? If that is discrimination to you - then it's Christians that are actually victims of discrimination. What businesses are being sued? Those owned by CHRISTIANS! Why are Christians being targeted and forced to cater to something that goes against their conscience? How many times have we read any Muslim bakers getting sued for the same reason? It's mostly - if not only Christians! There is DISCRIMINATION against Christians!

Have been reading the Queen's Bible, have we? I'd like to take you up on that, but it will have to be on its own thread. Let me just brush up on it.......

Talking about yourself? Didn't you revile Christians who try to adhere to their Scriptures as, "fake Christians?" Whose tone drips with contempt??? You definitely fit the definition of a reviler, according to Google: Revile - criticize in an abusive or angrily insulting manner. synonyms: criticize, censure, condemn, attack, inveigh against, rail against, castigate, lambaste, denounce; slander, libel, malign, vilify, abuse Don't use words you don't know. It could backfire. Since you seem to have latched on to that word, "revile," you should read and memorize this..... Jesus talking to His followers: Matthew 5:11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. If any non-religious ever imagine you can shame a disciple of Christ into conformity to your own ideas.....nix that silly ignorant assumption. Jesus had already foreseen that ploy, and has already equipped His followers against it!

Again, who's reviling anyone? You......... make no sense. You think murder isn't a sin? You think we shouldn't call murder a sin? Is that what you're saying here?? YES or NO!

Oh boy. Let's not get so overly-dramatic and get into comical exaggeration! Anyway..... Are you confused? Who's reviling whom????

So why are you arguing here? It's the same thing as an atheist arguing whether Jesus is God Himself! What do you understand about a faithful trying to adhere to his faith? You don't know squat about faith since you don't believe in it. Just look at your comments! They really add nothing to the discussion, but to show more about you......showing us what you know, and do not know. We know your jar is empty on this subject. Because your words sound hollow. Like I said.....a lot of non-religious cannot give substantive comment on faith issues like this one..... .........largely due to ignorance.

Well.....we just found out - thanks to the Reader's Digest - you're dead wrong. If there's the likelihood of truth, and genuine concern - trying to alert the public is something positive.

Going by the title of this thread..... .........luckily, some judge(s) have the good sense to uphold our freedom of religion.

Are they all nuts? Depends on the theory and what they say about it. The Dalai Lama, a CIA agent? https://www.rd.com/culture/conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true/

That's his business. :shrug:

I'm not forcing you to accept what I'd given. I referred to the New Testament. There are several verses (from the Old and New) that are consistently talking about homosexuality - along with the description of the sexual act! Take it, or leave it. Let's get back on topic. No matter how you want to interpret the Bible - your belief is yours. That goes for every Christian. If you're a baker - no one is trying to force you to not cater to SSM. How you want to practice your belief is your choice. However......it's not for you to dictate how others should practice their belief.

We don't need emojis to indicate we're emotional. I could tell by your language, and your tone. Your emotions overcome you, that you even failed to read the snip I gave you. Homosexuality is lumped there with all the others that are mentioned in the Commandments. 1 Cor 6 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. Romans 1 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

You're too emotional to discuss rationally right now. I'll give you time to compose yourself and read again.

Surely you don't think it's only the 10 Commandments that are to be followed? Homosexuality is right up there alongside adultery and idolatry! A sin is a sin. It is an offense against God. https://www.gotquestions.org/New-Testament-homosexuality.html

I can say the same thing: We should not allow evil people to mislabel Christianity and claim it as their own, as this has caused others to think it's an ugly hateful agenda and it is in reality quite beautiful. Contrary to what others who hadn't really read the Bible try to sell, there is nothing hateful about not wanting to offend God, and trying to adhere to His stipulations. OBEDIENCE is right up there with the very first commandment! Here. Read it! Jesus Christ did not change anything about the law! Matthew 5:17-20 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Christ had expanded, more like it! Matthew 5 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Did I say you're not allowed to express your opinion? I'm responding to your OPINION! Surely, I'm allowed to do that? I'm saying your opinion is silly, irrelevant.....since it's not about what you think, or what you resent. What you think is a fake Christian, or not - is your opinion reliable? NO! Because, it's clearly based on ignorance! Furthermore....... ......this isn't about how a Christian should interpret the Bible. It's about what the individual believes! You may not agree how the individual interprets his Bible - but that's none of your business. It's his religious belief - not yours! He has his right to both his religious belief, and his freedom to express! Read the article. That's what I'm saying.

Irrelevant! Furthermore..... We're not talking about HERITAGE. Or, inherited faith! Enlighten Perma Chodron, that Christianity, isn't achieved through inheritance. Just because you're born and raised by a Christian family doesn't automatically makes you a Christian. This is about PRACTICED faith! Judeo-Christian faith, that's being actively practiced. Having compassion, doesn't mean one has to throw away his God! COMPASSION SHOULD WORK BOTH WAYS. It shouldn't be seen as a one-way street! The Christian having compassion in his heart over someone with the burden of a grievous sin, and is living in direct conflict with God (we all have our own crosses to bear)...... ..........and the homosexual couple having compassion over a religious person, who's trying to balance tolerance with his religious belief! This baker had even referred them to particular establishments (his competition), as a way of helping them out! Good grief - people and their sense of entitlements! Anyway..... There is harsh judgement at the end of everything - whether you see it or not: that's what a Christian believes. That's why a Christian will not want to participate in idolatry, or anything that would offend God. What do you think all those warnings by God is all about? You think, hell isn't harsh enough? Oh boy...... all these la-la platitudes by those whose heads are up in the clouds, will get you all twisted too. Cutesy, feel-good words won't help if they're not consistent with the Scriptures. Not good, if one is trying to adhere to Christianity. Although the anti-religious want to sell it that way, or ignorantly think it is.......it's not about hating. It's about adhering to religious belief - which of course, the non-religious would find hard to understand. How can one understand having religious faith like Christianity....when you haven't even experienced it, don't know much about the Scriptures........ or, don't believe in God?

Just like there are also many bakers who cater to SSM, by choice..........there are also many doctors who perform abortion by choice. It's those that are being force to go against their religious belief - that's where the problem lies. For the life of me.....why don't these homosexual couples go to bakers who would gladly bake for their wedding! Who in their right mind, would dampen the joyous spirit of their union......by forcing an unwilling to take part in it? It seems the marriage becomes just secondary to the ideology, huh? Having a petulant fit.... and forcing someone unwilling, seems to have taken priority. Not a good way to start a marriage.

Let's not get all tied up in a knot over something that's not about us, personally. Even if we are gay! Like as if the world hangs on our personal "wisdom," and every word we say. What you think.....and what you resent......... isn't the issue.

Christian bakers don't refuse selling to homosexuals their already-baked stuffs that's sold to the public. So, there! This baker, also gave referral to a competition, to help them out.

If cakes are already baked and for sale to the public - yes, the baker cannot refuse to sell to anyone. The ruling is about custom-made cakes.

If the cake is already made, and is for sale - the baker can't exclude anyone from buying. Here's the explanation by the judge: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/the-stuff-of-tyranny-christian-baker-scores-major-victory It is frivolous. And, bullying. Anyway, who would force someone to prepare something they're going to eat? Only a dingbat! Ever heard of cooks spitting on food when they're pissed about someone? I know - having been in business that deals with restaurant cooks - I've been told about those! If I'm a guest at a wedding, and I know the legal battle that went on between the baker and the couple (and the baker is under duress) - I'll skip the cake. Why mar what should've been a joyous occasion with.......lawsuits? It's not like as if there's only one friggin' baker!