betsy

Our society's mind frame too, .....is quite dangerous to have assisted suicide legalized. This is the time of the "ME" generation! Self-gratification - preferably instantly - is the order of the day.

That would depend on an individual's belief. Some Christians would leave it in God's hands if there is no other way to save the life of a person. There would be reason to protest - not necessarily for religious reason. Like everything else, euthanasia can be corrupted......and people could get away with actual murder (through euthanasia). Giving power to anyone to be able to take away a life, is dangerous. That's why there's protest from the disabled groups. http://notdeadyet.org/assisted-suicide-talking-points https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/09/legalising-assisted-dying-dangerous-for-disabled-not-compassionate https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/euthanasia-a-choice-for-people-with-disability-its-a-threat-to-our-lives How do we know everyone who's euthanized had genuinely chosen to do so without any coerscion from anyone? How do we know his state of mind at the time? People can change their minds, too. People love the IDEA of being able to chose how one would go, of being in control.......but the idea is far different from reality. You are not really in control when someone puts the idea of assisted-suicide as the only solution to EVERYONE'S problem (the disabled and the family who's providing the care). If assisted suicide legally exists...... .......and becomes an option - you are presented with that option, period. That in itself, can provide psychological coerscion. How does it feel to get a hint (whether imagined, or real): "You are the problem. You're draining our energy caring for you. You're draining our financial resources. You're going through what should be our inheritance, dad. Only you can solve this. Remove yourself." You are not in control when you're made to feel and think that only you can end everyone's hardship by opting to commit suicide. There is pressure. We're talking psychological here. People can get easily manipulated, psychologically.

Here's the details about the Colorado case: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2017/12/06/forget-about-the-neighbourly-approach-the-same-sex-wedding-cake-case-should-be-debated-in-supreme-court.html A ruling is expected on June, 2018.

Never mind hoping for some Muslims to buy it. See if your shop is still open - or even existing - a week later. Maybe, you'll have a fatwa over your head and you'd be in hiding! You'll be the bakery version of Salman Rushdie. If you're in Canada....you'll be dinged for Islamophobia. Trudeau himself, will slap you with blasphemy! Depicting an image of Mohammad is an offense to Muslims. Why do you think the Muslims protested and rioted, and some even killed over those cartoons?

It's the fact for some of the cases! Some gays have been long-time costumers of the baker. One was even friendly with the gay couple.

Your life is not yours. You can only imagine, or fool yourself into believing you have a say when it ends, and could even plan ahead for it (like giving don't resuscitate instructions, etc). Some folks can't even get themselves dead by suicide! https://www.dorriolds.com/face-to-face-—-a-mothers-story-of-her-sons-attempted-suicide/ https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-two-left-paralysed-brain-9743705 You'll be dead only because God has allowed it.

What a load of rubbish! I bet your buddies here won't even realize that! You don't make any sense. If there is no God...... ..........whom are you referring to who's "okay with gayness, and being omnipotent and omniscient?" YOU?

No one is preventing them to be gay - therefore, nothing tampers to their freedom to be what they are. Therefore, your "bottom line," is irrelevant. Right now, this court had ruled in favor of the Christian. In this case, the person's constitutional right to practice his religion, is upheld and protected.

Maybe to you, it isn't. Hey....you're free to believe what you want.

Yes. Artistry is ruled as a form of expression - so the baker has the right not to express anything that goes against his religious belief. MH is wrong. It is about both - expression and belief.

Correction. That's not quite true. You're not getting it. Concentrate, MH. Focus: If a gay person asks a baker to bake a birthday cake for him, I don't think a Christian would refuse to. But, making cakes that celebrate the union of a gay couple, is another story. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. Anyway, what isn't a sin to you......may be considered a sin by the baker. You don't have any authority to dictate to anyone what they should or shouldn't see as a sin (after all, you lack knowledge of the Scriptures in the first place)....and, most importantly, I think you don't believe Jesus Christ is who He claims to be, according to the Scriptures. You and the baker aren't on the same page, so to speak.

Hahahaha You responded too fast. I edited.....and read you like a book. I anticipated you'd be asking that. Read my response to you above! Never mind....you'd most likely be lazy to scroll up. here is my statement above: Mankind is the only creature that's been created in the image of God. Lest you tax yourself mulling about that and wondering what gender God is - we don't mean PHYSICALLY (after all, God is invisible. He's a spirit). You're not a spirit, are you? Don't take my word for it. Ask a stranger on the street if he can see you.

You said you've read the Bible. Looks like you only read the first sentence? I know atheists - who are of course evolutionists - associate themselves with animals .......... Maybe...... at least.......you ought to read Genesis 1. Here is part of it - the part when God started creating creatures: Genesis 1 20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day. 24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. EXCEPT for MANKIND....... ...........when God created other creatures - do you see anything specifically mentioned about their genders? Mankind is the only creature that's been created in the image of God. Lest you tax yourself mulling about that and wondering what gender God is - we don't mean PHYSICALLY (after all, God is invisible. He's a spirit).

Why are there born crippled and malformed people? Does that mesh with a loving God? We do not know why - nor can we fully understand God's thinking and purpose. We don't have the full capacity to think the way He does. The Pastor Charles Price tells of the day he was leading the prayer thanking God for the recovery of a sick child. He caught sight of a woman who stood up and left the church. He saw the woman again outside and asked her why she left - if everything is alright. She said she just lost her son a week ago. Two Christian mothers - one had gained her son back, while the other had lost hers. Why? Years later, Charles Price received a letter from the bereaved mother, who informed him that she had founded an organization (I forgot what it was), and that her faith is strong as ever. We don't know God's plan. Usually, we only begin to understand through hindsight......when we look back, and see what had transpired from it. The testimonies by millions of people - telling of God's presence in their lives, and how they were transformed - is all the evidence we need. Why is it easier for other people to take the life of another human being? Did He create murderers? Why do some have the tendency to stray from marriage? Were adulterers created by God? If God had created homosexuality - would He call it unnatural? What about people who practice bestiality - would He have created bestiality too? Man is easily drawn to sin. That's a fact. God had given us a conscience........and, free will.

Every gesture has to have a sexual connoitation with you? Nothing is innocent anymore? Two girls holding hands are automatically lesbians? An older man rubbing the shoulders of a boy must be a pedophile! Two men sharing a bed are gay! Male-bonding must be an orgy to you? You see sex in everything? The beloved is believed to be John. He is what you'd call, the best friend. You think Jesus didn't have a best friend like any other human being? Jesus even entrusted His own mother in John's care just before He died. https://www.gotquestions.org/disciple-whom-Jesus-loved.html

No it's not nonsense! It's a form of entrapment. The baker explained his position. What's the big deal about going away, and finding another baker? This baker even gave a referral of his competition who acommodate SS weddings.

We're talking about a court ruling. Hello? How is that affecting others' conscience? Do you understand - or, do you have any idea at all, what a conscience is? Maybe I'm not seeing it from your angle - care to explain how that affects others' conscience. What human right are you on about? You mean the "human right" to force someone to do as you please? Because you "believe" it's how it should be? Wakey-wakey. This isn't about YOU!

No, not because their customers are sinnners. Who doesn't sin? A Christian will readily admit that we are all sinners. They refuse, because of the occasion for which the cake will be used. In this case, they can refuse service. For that reason: the constitutional right to practice your freedom of religion. You shouldn't be forced to go against your conscience.

I don't know why some can't seem to get the difference. Let's try to simplify, elementary-like: The bakers sell their already baked stuff to everyone. They don't refuse to sell what's already available to anyone - and that includes lesbians and gays. No one is getting banned from the establishment! The bakers refuse to cater specialty cakes (custom-made) to same-sex weddings simply because it is deemed to be a participation in the celebration of a union that goes against their religious belief. I bet you, if the gay couple will buy a cake that's already made and for sale to the public - there would be no problem buying it, and using it however they want to use it!

Why..........what service requires participating in the act of adultery? You should ask: will they sell "divorce" cakes - celebrating the divorce of a couple? I can't answer for them. If I'm the baker, I won't. Eh? What are you on about? Get a grip! No one is banning anyone! BANNED! BANNED! EEEEK! NOOOOOO! Hahaha - remind me of someone getting hysterical in a horror movie - this would be the part when they slap some sense into her!

I advice you to study the Bible, if you're interested. You can't simply jump in in this kind of discussion without understanding some of it.

Because of the title, and the OP, it's not about any ideology.....it's about a religious belief, particularly, Christian. Wedding cakes, cupcakes, muffins or rolls.......this is not a baking thread, too.

In other words, you're lost! Go find your way to the science section and discuss your "faith" there. Btw, do you need help to get there? This topic is about the Christian faith!

No. Some commands are meant only for Jews (Lev and Deut) - because they were supposed to be a holy nation - a nation of priests! I'm saying your opinion is irrelevant. That's all it is - your opinion. Your mention of bacon and eggs, even makes it all the more obvious - why do you think Christians can eat bacon and eggs? Do you know? Why do you merely rely on Leviticus? Am I arguing for Jews? Have you seen what I gave in the OP? Read the verses that are mentioned! If you want to discuss the difference(s) between Jews and Christians - create your own thread!