PolyNewbie

I will explain what the motivations are for the US government to do the terror attacks on 911, the invasion of Afganistan and Haiti as well as all the other wars and how it fits in with globalization, the new collectivism & the police state and give proof. I want someone to tell me how OBL could benefit from 911 and what his motivations were.

Where ? I have never seen these. I have looked at a lot of building collapses. The buildings stood fine after the explosions and withstood a small wind load. Common sense shows that if you damage half of the building its going to tip over just like if you cut off one leg of a 3 legged stool.

See Scott Forbes Scott Forbes See Andrew Richard Grove Andrew Richard Grove Also see 911 Mysteries: Part1 Demolition. This is the seminal film on 911 for the truth movement. You should look at the evidence collected in this film. 911 Mysteries

Andrews Air Force base had fighters and they were not launched to protect the white house after two jets hit the wtc's. This is where the stand down order came in. The idea of the excercises was to provide the necessary level of confusion.

(1) The earliest photos after the Pentagon crash show a clean lawn with no debris whatsoever. Subsequent photos show debris added. I believe the debris was added after the missile hit to make it look like an airplane hit it. Although many truthers maintain that an airplane hit it I do not because an airplane would not go through 3 walls that were all at least 3 feet thick and there would be holes in the walls where the engines hit. (2) 93 was shot down against orders and that pilot was discharged. I do not have a link for that. The physical evidence of the scene shows that there was no airplane crash. The debris field would have been much smaller and there would have been lots of debris visible. There is no way the plane would have buried itself into the ground like the interviewee in DemocracyNow regarding 911 said it would. (3) Many people have come forward, not many would have to be involved in the demolition placement. I suspect that foreign nationals were brought in to place the explosives during the suspicious shut down described by Scott Forbes and others (see 911Mysteries: Part1 - free on Google video) Do an internet search on Scott Forbes. The wiring could have been put in place by contractors who had no idea why the cables were being installed or could have thought it was for something else. Bomb sniffing dogs were removed from the building a a few days before the collapse - I suspect this is when the bombs were installed. (4) If it was a conventional demolition this is explained in (3) but I do not speculate on how the controlled demolition was actually done. I do not agree 100 % with any of the theories brought forth by Wood, Reynolds, Jones, Hawkings, or anyone else. I know for a fact that the buildings were demolished because I have seen the videos and heard many demolitions experts say they thought it looked like CD. Wierdly, a few had changed their minds a few days later by 180 degrees - they were sure then just changed their minds. Strange. More coverup. Also, the 911 commision report was a white wash. Here is a summary of mainstream media reporting lies and cover up. If things are what the gov says they are then why all the coverups and white wash ? White wash / coverups If I am wrong, I would never be ashamed of the position I have taken in all of this because it is the actions of a responsible citizen to always be skeptical of governments because all governments are corrupt - its what happens when you get a concentration of power. Even if you do not think 911 was an inside job, a responsible citizen would be asking, why did it take 441 days to start an official investigation ? Why is the camera footage of the pentagon crash being kept a secret ? How is it that the terrorists names were not on the flight manifests when they were released after 911 - the explanation that they don't put terrorist names on the manifest proves they let it happen on purpose because if they knew they were terrorists and didn't put them on the manifest, why did they let them on the planes in the first place ? On the other hand if I am right and 911 was an inside job then the people here posting to blindly support a government that has lied to them regularly should be ashamed of themselves. 911 was not investigated properly - twice the budget was allocated to Lewinsky / Clinton. 441 days before official investigation. The normal authorities that investigate such accidents were not used - FAA/Fire Marshals. No computer animations of building collapses. Much significant evidence goes unexplained. In my world the vote would be taken away from you. Your job as a citizen of a "free" country is to question government, not blindly support it. Your thinkings leads us to tyranny whether 911 was an inside job or not.

I never said NIST was lying. I reject their hypothesis of the buildings collapsing straight down in a controlled manner due to fires & damage. They certainly do not prove it - I suspect because it cannot be proved. Right but I do not make the claim that wind was involved only that the buildings had to be built much stronger than to withstand gravity forces alone. Its common sense that the buildings cannot collapse straight down because collapsing straight down is the path of most resistance because the top part of the building has to go through the rest of the building instead of just air. Also, looking at the film footage it is easy to see that the buildings were blown apart starting from top to bottom. They did not pancake, it was a progressive explosion. If you cannot see this plainly then explain how parts were ejected upward during the collapse. A graviational collapse would not cause this. The video looks like the buildings were blown apart but people are told they pancaked so they believe it becasue if you believe that the buildings were blown apart then you must believe it was an inside job and some people reject that automatically without giving it any considereation. I'm not going to do this unless some other poster asks me - in which case I will look for it. I have heard a few interviews with top justices that explain what Ron Paul says. They say that anyone can be legally dissapeared and that anyone who discusses these dissapearances can be legally made to dissapear as well. The laws in the USA are much worse than anything Stalin or Hitler committed to paper. They do not say "we can take part in genocide" but they do say they can make people dissapear forever and that Habeus corpus is gone. When habeus corpus is gone - that is it. They can accuse you of whatever they want and lock you up for as long as they want or kill you. I have posted links to congressmen, senators, multiple Phd engineers, brigadier generals, colonels,ex heads of intelligence agencies (FBI/CIA), scientists, ex heads of intelligence from other countries, & ex cheif presidential advisors. According to CanadianBlue these people are all nutjobs. I say CanadianBlue is the nutjob and this will be the last question of his that I answer.

Paint analysis by NIST shows most steel never got hotter than 250 deg C. Steel begins to lose strength around 600 deg C. The buildings are overbuilt to withstand the 150 year storm. Wind is the biggest load on 'scrapers, not mass. There was no wind that day.

BlackDog: You are right- I completely missed that. Please find more and I will answer them tonight.

Michael Hardner, I agree that the Chertoff thing can never be proved or disproved. Its never been central to my arguement. I will answer your post wrt US News & World Report later tonight. I have to read it first and I'm busy right now. If you think PrisonPlanet is being dishonest you can call Alex Jones during his show and if you tell the operator that you dissagree with him you will be put to the front of the line of the callers. He does not filter his calls before answering them and if you think that he is doing such a great disservice to the country then it should be your patriotic duty to call him and discredit his information. You have a chance to put Alex Jones on the hot seat any day you wish and he will get no warning of you comming. So if you want to criticise him, do so on air with 2 million people listening.

When ? I believe I responded to all of his questions or comments. Name one that I didn't respond to. Maybe I missed something.

No, they mis represent the claims of the truth movement then do their debunking based on the misrepreresented claims. This is how CanadianBlue argues on this forum. Its called "straw men".

So you consider Benjamin Chertoff as a more reliable source than the links to scientists, bigadier generals, Pentagon colonels, congessmen, senators, heads of FBI, headsof CIA and Phd engineers. You think they are all crazy because Benjamin Chertoff from Popular Mechanics says something different than they do. re: Picking arguements from Popular Mechanics and 911Myths, CnadaianBlue says "All of them." I say you pick whatever you think is their best arguement and I will show you how its a lie or a straw man arguement. I'm not going to go through all of them with you.

from:http://mrspickles.wordpress.com/2006/12/05/military-commissions-act-a-precursor-to-tyranny/ "In an interview with nationally syndicated radio talk show host Alex Jones, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas recently discussed President Bush’s support for the Military Commissions Act. During the interview, Paul said that “the law officially allows for citizen concentration camp facilities.” Paul also warned that “the Military Commissions Act and the Defense Authorization Act . . . essentially wipes out Habeas Corpus.” Paul continued by noting, “Right now we don’t have concentration camps, but . . . the authority has been given so that concentration camps can come without Habeas Corpus.” He then said, “If they can lock you up, what good is freedom of speech or what good is a gun?” Couple the implementation of the Military Commissions Act with the already-passed USA Patriot Act and all the legalities necessary to completely eviscerate America’s constitutionally-protected liberties are in place. Think of it. Without firing a shot or dropping a bomb, President George W. Bush has done more to strip the American people of their liberties than all the world’s despots and dictators combined! Consider further the recent statements of former house speaker Newt Gingrich. According to the (Manchester, NH) Union Leader, “Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich yesterday [Monday, Nov. 27] in Manchester said the country will be forced to reexamine freedom of speech to meet the threat of terrorism. "

You keep repeating this in hopes that someone will think its true. Most of your posts are just lies and propoganda. Where is the college drop out in this link OfficialsQuestion911Report or this link Scholars for 911 Truth ? When have I ever used a link to a college droput ? You are exposing what you to any truth seeker that may be reading your posts. Your lies and techniques of misinfiormation are well known and you are not fooling anyone. All the links I have used in this arguement, both here and elsewhere reference top people in government and in scientific fields. Your post is just garbage.

As I have stated before: Raise any point in PM's arguement or 911Myths arguement and I will prove its a lie.

He is actually the cousion of Michael Chertoff, and this was debunked by the 911 "debunkers" and leter found out to be true quite recently. I erred in saying he was Bushes cousin. He is in fact Michael Chertoffs first cousin. I will find a link for this for you. This should further discredit your beliefs. So you are saying that it is perfectly natural for buildings to collapse straight down into their own footprint ? Do you know of any scientist that agrees with that because I can list a pile that dissagree with that. Jeff King, Stephen Jones, Jim Hoffman, David Hawkings, come to mind immediately. The twin towers did not collapse like a conventional controlled demolition. They were obviously demolished but not in a conventional way. We know they were demolished because most of the concrete was atomized and many large parts of the building were ejected like arrows and penetrated other buildings. Parts were blown upward during the collapses, but again, this demolition (wtc1 &2) was not conventional. Add that to the fact that there is no single characteristic or group of characteristics of the wtc7 collapse that is not exactly identical to a controlled demolition. Many people use this as more proof of CD citing conservation of momentum as the logic - things do not simply stop rotating like that. The top part of the building was starting to rotate as it was toplling. Another force had to set it right.

Name one difference and I will post a link of a demolitions expert saying wtc7 was demolished for each valid point you make. See Videos of wtc7 collapse see Summary Of Multiple Polls NIST is the government - the "n" stands for "national", Michael Chertoff is a first cousin of Bush the PM writer Benjamin Chertoff. What does WalMart, Aliens and the Jews have to do with this ?

You have never been able to dispute one of my claims. I can find this and post it but I want you to go away when I am done because you have done nothing but attempt to distort this subject because you don't like it. You have used Elvis, Aliens,the Never Ending Story and Anti Semitism to distort threads relating to this topic. You must because any link sup[porting the official story that you post can easily be shown to be a lie. This is particularly true wrt building construction of wtc's by people who are "debunking" the conspiracy theories. Wrt wtc7, the official claims have been fire damage, structural damage, exploding diesel fuel to name three. Yes, all cencorship is a form of thought control. That is the idea behind it. No. You keep saying that but that doesn't make it true. Yes, many are linked by rail and have asphixiation facilities and equipment to dig mass graves. Yes, HR 6166 and the military commisions act make it legally possible to do mass exterminations. No one in history has ever codified this in law. Many legal professors have said that this is worse than Nazis or Russians and they have experessed their surprise that a country would actually codify this. I do not know much about LaRouche but I will know a lot more soon. He isn't a fascist. Yes. I do believe that and his name was Larry MacDonald. He spoke up against this New World Order quite often and was re-elected many times. He spoke of an incredibly evil comspiracy being lead by the Rockefellers.

No, over months and years. The official explanation for wtc7 collapse has changed more than three times. If I show you the three times (plus - I think its five now) will you go away? Typical neocon fascists techniques of arguement. Make stuff up to discredit your opponent. Your posts are full of it.

If the North American Union was good for people it would not be such a secret. Its a way for corps to remove borders and take us closer to fascism. It will make orderly executions that much easier. Some members of the CFR are callingt for 100 % population eradication for persons over 12 years old.

Maybe the air craft controllers but the guys who heard the stand down order didn't. no its well over 30 % that say MIHOP, another 40 % say LIHOP. Yes it looks like a demolition. Good point. What exploded in wtc7 ? Where ? The NIST report doesn't investigate any of the collapses and I can show how Popular Mechanics and others are lying or misrepresenting the truth movement. No they don't. Thats another idiotic statement. What does controlled demolition of wtc7 have to do with aliens ? Are you now trying to bring aliens into this ?

If I can show that the official reasons for the wtc7 collapse has changed more than three times will you promise never to participate in another 911 diswcussion with me ? - your posts are foolish.

(1) Too many of us. Well over 30 % of the populous thinks its an inside job. You can't kill off all those high level people like senators, congressmen, Phd engineers, generals, majors and ex heads of intelligence agencies without people noticing and the comming to the conclusion that 911 was an inside job due to the very active cover up. (2) Lots and lots have come out to say it was an inside job, most notably two independent people that were in the room with Cheney have come out to say he gave the stand down order in their presence and recently air craft controllers have come out to say they tracked the planes to target. (3) For a building to collapse into its own footprint all sides & supports would have to collapse simultaneously - unlikely with asymetrical damage. There is no consensus to say this was natural. Your consensus is people like the American Society of Civil Engineers which probably did not contact a single member before releasing their position. In actuality there are many more engineers and scientists that say this was an inside job than actually support the details of the official version in a scientific way. I have issued a challenge for anyone to present an arguement from Popular Mechanics or 911Myths that tries to debunk the 911 conspiracies. I can show any point to be misleading or an outright lie. If this is true, why all the lying to make the official version sound more plausible. Even the building construction itself has been mis represented in the first addition of PM to debunk conspiracy theories. If you believe wtc7 collapsed like that from fires you are working with the secret police. wtc7 videos

Not true. It can be shown to be outright lies. It doesn't matter who is doing it. All of the Popular Mechanics and 911Myths attempts to debunk 911 conspiracy theories can be shown to be based on lies. Thats all that matters.

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