Leafless

FTA Lawyer You wrote- " Leafless you are taking a very naive approach to this issue." I think I am taking a realistc view of this issue. Supreme court judges bend to appease parliament and the Charter. In your case it helps you earn a living. We never did have the conditons in Canada that Sparhawk reflected on with his famous quotations. This Charter was implemented long before the emphasis on immigration occurred and in my opinion and many others was for the benefit soley of Quebec. Without proof you must contemplate the theory that perhaps the Liberals did have a hidden agenda with fastracking Quebec's closed society jocking them to a political postion based on linguistics to possibly take over Canada. Now the Charter is redirected and Canadians sidetracked with dubious rights issue's while Quebec slowly inches on realitively unnoticed acquiring more and more federal power and federal real estate. I think the whole Charter situation is dispicable to a democratic Canada and to reflect the realities that successful countries are not created with the government playing robbing hood to feed other jealous socities and give away rights like candy to undeserving individuals and groups. Canada has become a police state built and manipulated by the Liberals utilizing not guns or physical force but with the outward appearance of an all good Charter. Time for an immediate change of government if you ask me or it might all ready be to late.

Sparhawk You wrote- " What constitutes charter is a matter of opinion not fact." I am sure anyone looking for a Charter escape route would agree with you. As with the case of racial profiling by police authorities. Is the Charter in this case actually aiding and promoting criminal acts and behavior or is it a legitimate tool to fight off those potential racist or presumed racist police officers. This of course depends on what side of the fence your sitting on and in reality most police officers are just doing what they are paid for and the individuals who get interrupted by police mostly are sore losers and simply won't admit that vehicles are stopped for many different reasons or groups hanging around street corners questioned by police concerning loitering or possible offences. You wrote- " I would not want to see the Charter scrapped because I don't trust governments elected with 40% of the population" Good point but I would not direct that to the Charter but am concerned concerning the legitimacy of the government itself. We need reform in this area also. I think all provinces should be responsible for the administration of rights similar to what Quebec has. They seem to be the only province to not only not sign the Constitution and use a discriminatory language Bill that contravenes even their own Quebec Charter but still get full federal Charter protection and actually more than any other province in Canada while still being in confederation. This enforces the view that the federal Charter discriminates aginst other Canadian provinces by not allowing the same rights as Quebec to be provincially responsible for their own provincial rights legislation.

Sparhawk You wrote- " The charter does not exist to protect criminals -it exist to protect law biding citizens through no fault of their own are targets of unjust government/ police actions." There is no direct evidence to suggest what you are saying is true. All the federal government does is administer those rights on what the government of the day (mainly the Liberals) FEEL is an issue. This of course could be done for primarily self political gain and could even be considered a hidden agenda and this is where the danger lies. There is no proof that the Liberals who initiated the Charter have not a long term plan to steer the country with Liberal ideologies The Charter is being abused by, groups, indivduals, criminals who lean back on interpretations of different sections to suit their individual requirements and the federal government is basically sitting back and letting it all happen. Even the wife of Pierre Trudeau used the Charter to beat a possible impaired driving charge which I understand is being appealled regardless. Is this what you want to see in our society with the legal system bogging down the courts with expensive Charter rights escape issue's and a government setting up the country for it's own self interest.

Does anyone see our federally administered Charter of Rights and Freedoms not a good thing for Canada, or is it a good thing for Canada. In my view charter rights are administered to the good and bad, deserving or undeserving, to the loyal or unloyal concerning dedication to our country Canada. This is why I think the Charter should be scrapped as no governmnet has the right to hand out legally binding rights that could be used to protect individuals that are a national security risk, criminals, that use these rights in an anti-Canadian fashion to develop their own society, individuals that use the Charter to help defeat a criminal charge or related to immigration deportation etc.

BubberMiley You wrote- " There are regular public English schools, but immigrants and francophones are not allowed to attend them." The 1982 created Constitution Act required English provinces required English speking provinces to provide not only French language education but also separate schools and schoold boards for the miniscule number of Francophones outside Quebec. There IS NO similar obligation put upon Quebec for the English speaking people in that province. Also mostly all schools in Ontario provide French emmersion while in Quebec there is none or for that matter no English emmersion courses in officially bilingual New Brunswick even though there are over 70,000 Francophones who cannot speak English.

Liberals pals are always using gun associated killings statistics comparing Toronto to New York City. Toronto has an area of 3,646 sq.miles housing 4.6 million people. New York City has an area of 309 sq.miles housing 8.1 million people. Social conditons do not compare and is unfair to make comparisons to a highly congested city like New York. We will wait for Toronto to stuff approx. 10-times the population into it's present land size to equal congested conditons as in New York and then compare statistics.

I don't think Canada's a democracy. We are a parliamentry democracy but don't receive any MP representation instead the party creates the issue's and MP's fall in line with party policy. This is a form of totalitarian government powered by a charter that has created issue's away from normal politics again with no direct Canadian participation. Phoney telephone polls are a way for government to establish political issue's that might not be of national interest but of party interest. In fact I would say we are at complete mercy of full government control and this is why it is so important to obtain a change of government especially a Conservative government to try to break this Liberal government anti-democratic hold on the nation.

America1 We have existing gun laws and they are simply not enforced along with a problem of not allocating immigrants to where they are needed or insuring Canada receives only quality immigrants. Large Canadian cities are now becoming problamatic with certain types of crime because of failed, short sighted Liberal policies equated to poor leadership. We are ten years behind the U.S. in social conditions and with our Canadian charter our traditonal values and morals and democratic lifestyles are becoming non-existent. I am not looking forward to see what Canada will become during the next 10 years.

eureka Concerning minority rights- I might be wrong but do English taxpayers pay for their own schools in Quebec or are English minorities fully funded by all Quebec taxpayers like the French are in Ontario to fund their schools?

Bubbermiley You wrote- " The majority is blisfully agnostic." I DON'T think so! Stats Canada for 2001 pegs Canada's population at 29,639 035. Here are the stats for religious affiliation. Catholic- 12,936,935 Protestant- 8,654,850 Christian Orthodox- 479,620 Muslim- 579,640 Jewish- 329,995 Buddhist-300,345 Hindu- 297,200 Sikh- 278,410 Eastern religions- 37,550 other religions- 63,975 No religion- 4,900,090 Looks like your blisfully in the minority!

BubberMiley You wrote- " You seem like you might enjoy having your own mini-society where sex and porn are banned and people speak freely in run on sentences." I belong to the MAJORITY who think religon is a good thing and part of Canadian society who will one way or the other reclaim the country to restore it to it's previous conditon -minus the Charter which in the hands of a totalitarian anti-democratic government is an extremely dangerous piece of legislation. You are the one that belongs to a small aggressive secularist mini-society that think you can bestow corruption with drugs and adverse lifestyles thanks to the destructive charter and present government that agree with allowing and flooding the country with corruption which is nothing new with the Liberals anyways. I have ask you before and you did not reply to name me one successful society where everyone is equal??

BubberMiley "SSM just gives rights to a minority"- At the expense of Canadian democratic society with rights based on the CHARTER. " Official bilingualism was based on the concept of two founding cultures." Call it what you want but the legal mechanism to enforce it is CHARTER RIGHTS-Equality Rights and Official languages of Canada Sec. 16-1. " The only major religion in Canada is secularism." I think you are a very confused individual and debating any further you does not make any sense.

I think the feds know the gun registry serves no real purpose but was created specifically to add another level of federal bureaucracy and control that produces employment, buys liberal votes with 600-800 more employees at an estimated $25-million with Quebec controlling it's own gun registry with unknown expenses all at the expense of the Canadian taxpayer.

Kimmy You wrote- " If that ever happens that ethnic enclaves start proclaiming their jurisdiction, Iam going to be there with my own torch and gas can to start burning shit. Absolutely unacceptable. Not in this country. Never." Well, the charter almost guarantees the frationation of groups and cultures. Some will argue the main reason The Charter of Rights and Freedoms was initially implemented by Pierre Trudeau and the Liberals was to ensure Quebec would never have to be assimilated. This has allowed Quebec along with the NWC the status of a distinct society something Meech and Charlottetown was never able to do and will basically allow ethnic and diverse groups to do the same. In fact the Aboriginals, Quebec and now the start of ethnic and probably soon diverse groups to live a segregated lifestyle consisting of societies or mini-socities.

BubberMiley Thanks to your Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Great charter, eh Bubber!

BubberMiley Two examples, sure. (1)-SSM (2)-Official bilingualism in the federal public service. (3)- Religious freedoms in which a certain religion is able to obliterate certain religious customs pertaining to the major religion of the land Christianity. (4) Mobilitiy Rights concerning allowing Quebec to disallow the gaining of livelihood pertaining especially to advertising in English in that province. (5) Forcing provinces to adhere to minority rights when the other official language does not reciprocate nad has it's own linguistic legislation.

BubberMiley You wrote- " If we really want to prevent an influx of pedophiles, we could concentrate on raising the age of consent." Oh, you mean paedophiles. I really don't think hard core paedophiles care about the age of consent. You also wrote- " I don't care what consenting adults do." That's part of the problem. Sex and porn is like drugs , some people tend to go on to new sexual adventurers, some include paedophilia.

I Miss Trudeau You wrote- " Give one good example of either. I won't hold my breath." The Charter of Rights and Freedoms has removed the right of majority rule. This alone has resulted in allowing minority diverse groups to impose their will of concerning rights associated with linguistis, marriage, religion, immigration. The charter has allowed the federal government to dictate social policy under the guise of minority rights and has produced a pecking order of who gets what. The Charter is a very powerful socialist document and like previously in other posts I advocate it's removal since the federal government can use this charter as a tool not only to attain perpetual power (votes) but to run the country as a cheap banana republic. Rights were always previously associated and protected by provincial law with nothing written into the constitution.

Concerning Muslim intergration or are Canadians intergrating into Muslim society. I think Muslims in general do not intergrate outside basically buisness dealings. Proof is now is that they do establish there own Muslim sections of cities and provinces, mingle among each other and have their own temples of worship. Add to this Islam clashes with Cristianity and our government supports outright condemnation and open critizism of Canada's major religion Christianity from members or groups of Islam religion. Islam in itself certainly has no track record as a peacful religion and has been rooted world wide events concerning genocide linked to "honour killings", murderer suicide bombers, throat cutting, wife beating. This in turn could or partly has to what degree no one is quite sure to foster or create feelings concerning Islamphobia, xenphobia or just plain distrust against Muslims in general. I think this is the last thing Canada should be doing as a country especially after it's experiences with enforcing it's concept of a dual linguistic Canada and now interfering with Canada's major traditonal religion basically selling it down the drain in favour of supporting a not so peaceful imported religion which will or has created animosity in many Canadians towards our federal governmnet and Muslims who canot seem to intergrate in a normal sense.

err You wrote- " so both the CPC and the Liberals." NO, sorry err you have never heard public comment from the CPC praising Christianity as a triumphant statement concerning a successful political nomination. Apparently the remark in question was made by a Markam councillor who grabbed the microphone out of Mr. Alghbra hand and shouted " The results tonight is prove for Muslims unity and a victory for Islam and that Arab mean Muslim and although Mr. Hazineh (the riding president) keeps telling me he is a Christian, Iam telling him he beter be a Muslim." He also said this is the begining to trake over other ridings in Mississauga and later take over Canada. He also added do not vote Conservative they are against Islam and Muslims. Mr. Alghbra then got the microphone back and thanked the A.S.N.A. for supporting him BUT did not denounce one word Mr.Osman said. http://canadiancoalition.com/forum/messages/12181.shtml This is the result of seeds planted by Liberal policy and is this the kind of politics Canadians can look forward to??

Clopin I had the greatest respect for Canada before the Liberals removed the criteria necessary to be dedicated or loyal to this country for Canadians like myself whose family has resided in Canada since 1875. I am no way trashing this country, I am trashing Liberal mangement that has destroyed this country. Sorry you disagree. You sound like a person who has never resied for long in any country very long and concerning this country you simply don't know Canada's true history. Many immigrants also agree with your line of thought.

tml12 You wrote- " Can anyone say this is really a bad idea." I am surprised Mr. Harper would even contemplate this being an issue as Canada firstly must aquire a military before even considering such an option. I'd leave this one to Paul Martin.

Clopin Do you not agree the current leadership in this country and past leadership from the Trudeau era onwards is lacking the leadership necessary to properly steer the country out of it's perpetual constitutional problems that continue to worsen with our federal government in effect continually giving in to constitutional blackmail while creating a constitutional democratic deficit concerning national interest for the rest of Canada? Argus- Try www.rottentomatoes.com and type in the search title, ilsa she wolf of the ss It appears to be avialable on DVD for $18.99 U.S.

America 1 You wrote- " If they did break away would the Candian military get involved." Our Canadian military had a hard time controlling a relatively small native uprising in Quebec a while back. In the event of some type of social uprising involving Quebec I would suspect Canada would be asking for U.S. assistance immediately as our Canadian military not only small but would be dysfunctional with a large portion of it in Quebec which was a dumb thing for the military to do initially in a province that continually threatens separation.

PocketRocket You can trivilize my posts all you want on this board since for the time being we still have the right to free speech. The only government that works in this world is one based on majority democratic political ideologies. Enjoy your country while you can has it is destined to the garbage bin and only has a limited life span remaining. And I couldn't care less what you do in your bedroom PR just keep it the hell out of public buildings as a buisness in my neighbourhood.