Leafless

Exactly. I see that you understand it's important to support your views. Now, care to support all the statements which you made earlier. If you re-read my posts in this thread, I've already pointed out quite a few. While you're at it, do you want to answer the questions I asked in my previous post (or any post before that if there are unanswered questions)? I've always supported my VIEWS, NOT STATEMENTS with INTELLIGENT rhetoric and I don't need you to tell me that. Instead of asking me to support my allegations or views, how about rebutting them with your own intelligent rhetoric to form a debate. Only trouble is, you can't. You OBVIOUSLY know multiculturalism and all aspects concerning it is badly flawed and there is no way you can support Liberal B.S. I will continue to bash all aspects concerning multiculturalism when the occasion arises or the topic calls or initiates a confrontation concerning any aspect regarding multiculturalism.

The protester was half his size, too. And what was he supposed to do? Punch out the Prime Minister? PM Chretien (brave man) was in no position to loose, with his squad of body guards. This act of violence towards the victimized protestor shows a total lack of intolerance concerning a free democratic society and the right to protest. This highlighted the hatred directed to anyone who dares protest in the way or around Mr.Chretien.

Those might be your rules but there not mine. I think your simply trying undermine free speech. You don't need a qualified source for everything that's said. I think you cannot defend Quebec ideologies as an alternative independent of Canadian nationalism and patriotism. This is why IMO was the main reason the Charter was implemented was to force the rest of Canada to succumb to the same nationalistic ideologies Quebec bases it's overly religious sentiments to linguistics and culture rather than Christian nationalism. Christian nationalism got Quebec nowhere pertaining to political power. The all wise Liberals remedied that, by creating a political power base built on language and culture and resulted in viewing Quebecer's as a minority rather than being part of the whole group being Canadians. This topic of this thread has been initiated with a media article relating to the subject and continued from there into aspects of multiculturalism related to the subject. I suggest you go ahead and post your suggested topic "Christianity fans the flames of racism and bigotry" as it sounds interesting and you will create a debate if you can and are able to support your views with reasonable dialogue when confronted by others.

Your interpretation of Canadian nationalism is different than mine. Nationalism is simply a more intense feeling of patriotism and they are both created like I mentioned previously from (in this North American country) majority Christian nationalism and democratic federal support.

Prior to 1982 is the answer to the question when Canadian nationalism and patriotism did exist. Canadian nationalism and patriotism is what forms the backbone of a united country based on Christian nationalism relating to North America. It's not only immigrants that are contributing to the decay of Canadian nationalism but Quebec is the leader in this area with the twisted emphasis on it's own nationalistic pride devoted to it's own language and culture rather than Canadian nationalism and patriotism derived from Christian nationalism.

Any member can reply to that statement anyway he or she chooses. A smart member would research information to dispute that claim or to counteract that statement if he or she chooses to do so. This is how a debate is initiated. This is a forum not parliament.

Yet another bold statement from Leafless without a single argument/example to back it up. Another tounge lashing reprimand from the peanut gallery! If you can read it reply either to it, don't reply to it, or report it to the moderator. If immigrants and Quebec are NOT steering Canadians away from THEIR majority culture developed solely by Christian nationalism , maybe you can explain the absence of Canadian nationalism, Canadian patriotism and loyalty to the country of Canada? Canada's rich cultural and linguistic heritage is already spoken for, by guess who?

Now I really don't know exactly know what you mean, when you make a statement like this. Is this supposed to be a good thing or bad thing? In Canada most Canadians cannot even define what constitutes a Canadian. But can you blame them, as the Liberals for years have been trying hard to separate the important factors that make Canadians nationalistic and patriotic. If the Americans are affluent as well as religious, explains why Americans are so nationalistic and patriotic compared to Canadians. Then what is it the important factor Canadians are lacking compared to Americans? That important factor is 'Christian nationalism' something the Liberals have been trying to bury in Canada. But notice, it is perfectly acceptable to allow Quebec to be an extremely nationalistic province. But rather then Christianity, the premise now in Quebec to account for this strong sense of nationalism, is based on language and culture, an extremely divisive component when trying to harmonize the Canadian masses to work together. Canada and the U.S. have evolved utilizing the same solid 'base' being Christianity to spiritualize the country that has worked hand in hand with past governments to create a great civilized, advanced country. Unfortunately to-day Canada is lost and struggling with a major identity problem due to the loss of 'Christian nationalism' and replaced with floundering, troublesome 'official multiculturalism' which is a poor excuse to create a strong nationalistic sense of pride and along with a unified patriotic attachment to Canada. Be critical of the U.S. all you want, but the fact is they are leaps and bounds ahead of Canada concerning nationalism and patriotism something Canada tries to mimic with 'devastating to unity' and 'divisive' multiculturalism which robs a nation of a single unified force and weakens the national mind.

This poll is flawed by the fact it ignores the volatility of world wide religions in which you would receive different answers from different countries of the world. For instance in an affluent society religion is not as powerful pertaining to belief as in countries that are not affluent and religion becomes a very powerful entity. Is this not the very problem associated with the difference between Christianity and Islam? Islam projects a powerful dominating force identified with it's religion as compared to Christianity which basically if compared in the way power is a moral supporter and reaffirms the existence of God, albeit in some countries more powerful than others.

Build a graph. On the Y access, put the numbers of those who are "uncomfortable", as you put it, with different cultures. Now on the X access, put the number of "others" who are coming into a given area. You will unquestionably find a diagonal line running up the graph. In other words, discomfort with the otherness of foreigners rises with the number of foreigners around you. Many people are okay with a few people of different cultures. Far fewer are comfortable with large numbers of foreigners among them. The more you bring in, the more anger, resentment, and racism and bigotry you will find. This is basic human nature. You can dismiss them all as bigots, if you like. That is an old tactic of the Left, who are, after all, morally superior to mere mortals, but it doesn't change reality. You didn't really address my argument. You could easily build a graph, but put intolerance on the y-axis, and put 'how much do you believe that others should not be allowed to have their own culture' (ie opposed to multiculturalism) and you'll see that the people opposed to multiculturalism are opposed to it because they are intolerant. Or better yet, take a group of people who believe that others should be entitled to their culture, and then plot your graph, you will find that the number of people "uncomfortable" with different cultures is zero no matter how many "others" are in the area. Take a group of people opposed to multiculturalism, and plot the same graph, you will get a slope as you described. Our society is a mixture of those two types of people, so average out those two plots and yes you will see a diagonal line but that has nothing to do with multiculturalism. Once again, it's not multiculturalism that is the problem, it is people opposed to (ie intolerant of) multiculturalism. Canada is a multicultural country and I don't believe anyone would argue that fact. Show me a link or proof that the federal government doest NOT want immigrants to assimilate? But the problem appears to be to what DEGREE are immigrants and even Quebec permitted to drive or steer the country away from the lifestyles and associated cultural aspects of the majority of Canadians. This is what the problem is and this is where the federal government to date has failed, by providing little or NO leadership in this area. This federal lack of multicultural leadership has contributed to promoting bigotry and racism among Canadians.

"Unless a country completely capitulates and voluntarily decides to accept all terms."=EQUALITY. How much longer are Canadians going to continue to buy 'official multiculturalism'. I think drastic measures are in store for many countries while we still have a inkling something could be drastically wrong with present immigration policies and this could even be applicable to over abundant of rights and freedoms becoming abnormally abused rights and freedoms.

Where is the proof what Mr. Arar went through and what was the alleged torture? How do you know Mr. Arar has not worked out some kind of deal with his alleged torturers? How do you know if Mr. Arar's whole issue is not some sort of conspiracy or just a plain lie? As far as I know the man could at the time he returned to Canada, could talk, walk, see, understand and looked perfectly healthy. What amount of money are you referring to? Your staement is unlogical asking: "I do not how many of you would be willing to go thru the same for the same amount of money.'' You probably know the answer to that just as well as I do and I would estimate thousands of Canadians would be willing to go through what Mr. Arar went through as it seems it did not affect him physically or psychologically and appears to be fully coherent. There are many unemployed Canadians like Mr.Arar who have also suffered greatly from failed government policy, but get nothing. Mr. Arar should be thankful he has a safe, free country to live in rather than to try to milk the Canadian government and the Canadian people to what could be equivalent to the life style of a very well off affluent Canadian.

Reap the wind; sew the whirlwind. If you care to be more explicit or I would interpret what you say as B.S. Sorry for my brevity. My poin tis that they wanted the host of people from Cameroon, Mali, Senegal, Algeria and similar venues. Now, if they don't like their Francophone imports, tough luck. Yes, this sounds reasonable, but it is also to bad all other Canadian provinces don't have the same legal privileges to pick and choose immigrants from countries their provinces consider compatible with the MAJORITY of it's provincial residents.

Please understand this. The man was travelling to the U.S. during a time of high terrorist alert. He must bear some responsibility for this since if he was ONLY a Canadian citizen he would have been deported back to Canada ...no other country. The man was also a citizen of Syria. The RCMP had a file on Arar as a possible terrorist suspect. No one knows how Mr.Arar responded to U.S. authorities when detained by U.S. authorities which could have contributed to his deportation to Syria if he was indeed arrogant or behaved with an indignant attitude or manner with U.S. officials. BTW- I think it was extremely foolish of the RCMP to admit to being incompetent in this matter as there is a fine line that must be drawn (instantly)in a case like this with the suspect being actually involved with wrong doing or was completely innocent which was impossible to determine at the time. I suspect the RCMP was used as a scapegoat in all of this. But I really get a chuckle out of the 22 recommendations that the RCMP so readily accepted (almost a charter in itself) that will more than likely add even more confusion in the future and probably end up as a disservice to Canadians in the way of protecting the Canadian public. IMO Mr. Arar should be should be not given a federal apology nor should he be given a single penny in the way of possible compensation. Mr. Arar acted in an irresponsible manner with his choices of acquaintances and now is blaming Canadians for his problem including poor judgement concerning travelling at a time of high terrorist alert as also a citizen of Syria.

Reap the wind; sew the whirlwind. If you care to be more explicit or I would interpret what you say as B.S.

Tolerance must be based on reciprocality. If a group is tolerant to others they must be tolerated. If a group is intolerant to others they must not be tolerated. Good advice. I only wish the government of the land have these sort of convictions.

It's not children that will be dying in the streets, it's the children that have turned into adults and many are now or soon will be anywhere from 35-55 yrs. old, when their parents pass on who had been providing an artificial lifestyle by subsidizing their existence. Mostly these people who have been denied substantial employment and have been perpetually handicapped by artificial bilingualism requirements, have been working ALL ALONG in minimum wage jobs, so they don't reflect in any statistics. These people will be left with no experience outside of unskilled minimum wage jobs and will not even be able to find a minimum wage job due to their age factor and the artificial bilingualism factor. The artificial bilingualism factor which has been going on for a long time in Ottawa and is the main factor why many of Ottawa's young people have been trapped in minimum wage jobs from the start right into their older unemployable age bracket. Politicians have failed Ottawa's majority unilingual English speaking taxpayers by failing to provide or protect the employment base for their majority tax paying English residents who were and are still presently continued to be attacked by unofficial artificial bilingualism. The data you won't be holding your breath for doesn't presently exist and like I said has nothing to do with real employment numbers. The type of data reflecting to the situation I am talking about would incriminate political bodies and for that reason you will probably never see this type of data.

If the same type of third world oppressive discriminatory language Charters and use of the 'Notwithstanding Clause' to enforce language legislation existed in other provinces, yes. But you know for a fact all other provinces in Canada don't care what language you speak. For commercial purposes the provinces use the universal language of the world English, the majority de facto language of Canada.

Jerry, where are you? Have you lost your tongue? We need people to contribute their experiences concerning what the extreme social Liberal fantasies have done to this country. The situation the Liberals have created in Ottawa is deplorable. The city is majority English. The population of francophone's in Ottawa is 17.7% unlike other population statistics that is based on demographics and include Gatineau, Quebec. The Liberals have promoted a minority language (French) by inducing an artificial demand for the French language in Ottawa that has encouraged thousands of Quebec francophone's to cross the bridges into Ottawa every morning to TAKE from the English majority jobs that BELONG to tax paying residents of Ottawa. The mayor of Ottawa Bob Chiralli (a federal Liberal supporter) has actually promoted official bilingualism, with the city of Ottawa actually implementing a deluxe version of a bilingual policy that has resulted even with Ottawa's major hospitals being staffed by an large unproportionate number of francophone's. Liberal Premier Dalton prior to being elected had made a promise to francophone's to make Ottawa officially bilingual. Fortunately he has BROKE that promise. I wonder why? Where are the politicians to support the English tax paying majority who need English jobs in Ottawa. Where are the politicians who must protect Ottawa residents against the massive influx of francophone's who pour into Ottawa every day who remove massive amounts of dollars from Ottawa's economy only to return to Quebec and spend it there. Who pays for the destruction of Ottawa roads caused by this massive influx everyday? Ottawa the Capital of Canada does NOT belong to the federal government nor the province of Quebec. It is a municipality like any other municipality supported by the tax payers of Ottawa. Somebody must do something. I would not ever want to ever see the Ottawa and the region region turn into another BELFAST. People are angry and dumbfounded over the entire situation. http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:jf7vmh...t=clnk&cd=2

And this is news? Well, tell me Jerry, I haven't heard much in the way of sabre rattling from English minority groups in the Montreal area. Have they all thrown in the towel? I really don't blame them though when they get absolutely NO support from OUR federal government. If the feds have any integrity they would offer all English minorities who are unable to leave Quebec for financial reasons a job in the federal public service and pay all cost pertaining to setting up in another more civilized English province. I know in Ottawa many people are going to be in for one hell of a problem a few years down the road. We have tons of francophone's pouring into Ottawa every morning from Quebec taking all the jobs that 'artificial bilingualism' has created, courtesy of 'a la federal government'. Ottawa's English kids, many have no jobs or unskilled minimum wage jobs and are living with their parents who provide cheap or no charge room and board. But what's going to happen Gerry, when their parents pass on and they will be in the average age bracket of 35-50 and totally unemployable. What kind of unrectifiable social situation will this create? Who will pay for the high cost of welfare coupled with a possible high suicide rate? Society will say 'what has caused this horrible situation and who is responsible? To late though ...isn't it. Many Liberal supporters don't think of these things when they go out to vote ....with their wallet in mind. Well all I have to say is English society better think twice before voting Liberal if they don't want their children dying in the streets of English Canada.

There are three people replying to to the same issue's, so I will try to reply to the main concerns the best I can. You can post all the numbers you want pertaining to English-French population numbers in Ottawa, Ontario. Even at that the only reason French numbers grew in Ottawa was due to the relatively new amalgamation of some small townships around Ottawa including Eastern French townships. BTW, I fully believe part of the reason for amalgamation was to increase French numbers in Ottawa for political purposes. It certainly wasn't to save money as was the original sales pitch. Ottawa mayor and Liberal freindly Bob Chiralli would certainly know all about this finer point. The FACT is city of Ottawa nor the province of Ontario are NOT officially bilingual. But UNLIKE anywhere in discriminatory Quebec, Ottawa, Ontario does have a civilized bilingual policy and did for many years. Canada does have two official languages English and French BUT they ONLY pertain to federal government entities and are NOT official PROVINCIALLY throughout the provinces of Canada, not even Quebec. I presume you are NOT so totally misinformed that you that you did not know this or were purposely trying to mislead, like you have virtually every other point I have posted. The only reason I carried out this (debate, cough, cough sputter, sputter) to this point, was to ensure SOME of the real facts were properly addressed. What you are doing is trolling and is against the rules in this forum.

The airways are not rented from the CRTC or FCC. What is bought is a license which among other things also permits the broadcastor to transmit 'information signals' within a certain frequency. No one as an exclusive right to 'air space'. If a providers scrambling methods fail to halt 'signal piracy', then it's up to the provider to come up with an alternative method or simply like they have been doing previously, issue a receiver access descrambler card as often as it takes to rectify the situation if they are so worried about piracy.

1.- English is the de facto language of Ontario, NOT official like Quebec chose freely to make itself. In fact I think even though Ontario has the legal right to declare itself 'officially English' it would have a hard time or even be impossible doing so due to federal interference. Windsor, Ontario if I remember correctly, tried to make it's city 'officially English' but ran into so many roadblocks it was unable to designate itself 'officially English'. But this raises an EXCELLENT question and that is: Why has NO other province in Canada ever attempted to do what Quebec has done and officially designate their majority English provinces 'English'? 2.- Canada is NOT 'officially bilingual' and neither is 'OTTAWA' 'officially bilingual'. 3.- The problem is that the federal government actively promotes bilingualism in Canadian provinces especially 'Ottawa' Ontario. Like I mentioned previously it now hard for a majority English resident of Ottawa to find employment in English only, in their own majority English city because of federal government interference that promotes bilingualism within that city with various incentives. This has resulted in forcing the majority English in Ottawa to become fluently bilingual in order to gain employment. In other words the federal government has been successful in forcing it's version of 'federal official bilingualism' outside of it's federal jurisdiction into a private provincial municipality in which it has virtual no business in provincial or municiple concerns. But the federal government DISCRIMINATES badly against the English in Ottawa and the other Canadian provinces by not actively promoting bilingualism in Quebec. 4.- Quebec discriminates against English Canada by CONTINIUALLY every five years, renewing the 'Notwithstanding Clause' it uses to implement it's discriminatory 'French language Charter' and it's language laws. The federal government 'has continued to look the other way' when Quebec comes around every five years for renewal of the 'Notwithstanding Clause' since it requires a 'substantial reason' to continue to use this clause. By doing this the federal government again DISCRIMINATES against the 'rest of Canada' since the 'French Language Charter flies in the face of the federal 'Charter of Rights and Freedoms' that has PRECIDENCE over Quebec's 'French Language Charter'. 5.- Pertaining to: "Official multiculturalism is fanning the flames of bigotry and racism by allowing so called minorities to advance their cultural and religious claims" It does just that. For instance Quebec being a sub-culture, federal charter rights and it's 'French Language Charter' allows Quebecer's who wish to choose to 'flaunt it's language and culture' in the face of it's cultural minorities, whether being English, Black etc. is a demonstration of 'intolerance'. Federal Charter right also for example in the case of Muslims and Islam to flaunt it's religion and associated internal religious politics in the face of Canada's major Christian religion. Examples of this is Muslim objection to traditional Christian holidays and customs etc. along with trying to impose it's 'Shariah Law' as a legal entity. There are many examples how bigotry and racism can be applied without anything in the form of written policy, as was the situation down in the American South, simply extreme unjust hatred against Blacks.

I don't see it as wrong either. Air space is full of different types of signals at any given time. It is different than water, telephone, hydro or gas being attached to your house by equipment that is owned by the company supplying that service. If I have the equipment to capture and decode those signals, whether AM or satellite in the privacy of my own home, it is my personal business. It is up to the supplier of electronic signals to protect their signal and scramble them in a way that would make it very difficult or impossible to unscramble. Now Figleaf, how about some decoding specifics?

Quebec language laws entitle Quebec to use it's language within it's borders. But what it did it is used the right to make it's language 'official' within it's borders something all provinces in Canada have the right to do, but to date none have and for obvious reasons. It discriminates. Can you imagine Quebec's reaction if Ontario designated itself 'officially English'. This is something I wish they would do for protection against artificial forced bilingualism, like what has happened in Ottawa, Ontario. Ottawa is not officially bilingual but federal linguistic interference promotes and encourages the French language in a province that is not officially bilingual and has spread to private business now making it hard to obtain employment in Ottawa unless you are bilingual. Ottawa is majority English. Another aspect of Quebec discrimination is it uses the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms while at the same time it employs it's own provincial 214-item or so 'French Language Charter'. This French Charter discriminates against federal Canadian Charter rights. Also in Ontario francophone's enjoy the privileges of Ontario tax payer funded services relating to the 'French Languages Services Act', something Quebec does not give Quebec English residents to enjoy similar services in Quebec dedicated to it's English component.