Signals.Cpl

They have been able to control them just barely and that would last only as long as Hamas says they are determined to destroy Israel, the second they start talking about longterm peace with them someone else steps in and continues the "struggle". If done right Fatah and the West Bank could serve as an example to the Gaza Strip and with proper motivation from Israel it could lead to the palestinians themselves removing Hamas. Negotiate with the west bank, show the people in Gaza that your choices carry consequences, vote moderate and negotiate with us and you gain a lot, vote extremist and you watch as the west bank progresses and gaza stays at the same level. Great, and when Fatah shows results and funds and investments start flowing in to the West Bank what happens then? Better services, better opportunity and a much higher quality of life. I think the people of Gaza can put 2+2 together or they don't deserve a better life style. And Hamas can be seen as a counter productive organization, if Israel rewards negotiations and moderate groups then Hamas will benefit no one and will be useless. Hamas is strong only as far as there is a conflict, no conflict no Hamas. So? Just because the Arab League is talking to them does not mean its the right thing to do. You can't have peace with Hamas, the second they say we support Israel's right to exist and we want peace is the second that organization dies as its foot soldiers will join other groups that favour their current tactics. Get the people on your side and you win, win over Hamas and when they are overthrown you have the same problem with a different name. Iran might be Isolated, but they still play a major role in this as it benefits them to have an ongoing war in the region. The solution needs to include the Moderate Palestinians not the extremists who benefit from continuation of the conflict. They need to change the fundamental basis of their organization which will not last long as I mentioned there are Terrorist groups waiting on the sidelines for any opportunity to pounce on them and take over.

And if that comes to pass we will deal with it, at this moment the threat of those weapons should not derail any potential peace solution.

One of the most, not the most... Deal with those groups that are moderates, and that recognize Israel's right to exist. The point is for everyone to get a fair deal, the Palestinians are allowed to form their own country, Israel gets the live in peace and everyone else minds their own business. And Israel has been fighting them for the same amount of time, how is that working out for them? Albert Einstein Albert Einstein Give the Palestinians a reason to fight, and let them fight those who want to bring them back to this position. Show them that negotiation is the way to go and rein in the Israeli extremest.

And that is Syria's problem and should not derail any potential peace negotiations.

I'm pretty certain that Egypt would be more then willing to participate in this endeavour as they would benefit greatly, Syria is a non-issue as they have their own problems to solve and should they try to fight Israel in the future they will be alone. Turkey is another non-issue nation as they are a NATO member and I can't see them going to war with Israel anytime soon. The only other solution is the status quo, which is not something I think most people in the region want as the Palestinians are living in one of the most impoverished area's in the world and Israel is essentially in a constant state of war with rockets raining down on them daily. If Israel does not make the first move, Hamas most definitely will not make the first move and the moderates have been ignored. Show the Palestinians that peace and moderate leadership brings results and they will deal with Hamas and the other organizations like Hamas all on their own. If you have nothing to lose you will lash out, give the Palestinians something to lose and let them remove the threat or face losing it forever.

Because if they want peace they have to make the first move, as I said before Hamas and their very existence is based upon conflict, no conflict no Hamas as someone will take over thus Israel has to make the first move and build up the Moderates by giving concessions. Give moderates a concession and suddenly it begins to look like negotiating is the path to go. Wait for Hamas to make the first move and you will be waiting a long time.

I agree 100% with that, Israel needs to make the first move, and this seems like the perfect way to do so.

There are terrorist groups on the sidelines waiting for Hamas to soften its position on Israel and they will pounce on them and take power from Hamas and as such Hamas has nothing to gain from peace. The only possibility here is for Israel to talk to moderates who can benefit from peace and give them the means to convince Palestinians that further violence will bring nothing but destruction for thing and loss of their newfound gains. You can talk to the moderate groups and give them the chance to prove that negotiating could bring about results and Palestinians could get freedoms they have only dreamed about up to that point or you can try to negotiate with Hamas and the other like them who most likely will turn this in to a victory for them and use it as "proof" that violence brings results, once the people are convinced that the "victory" is because of the violent means of Hamas and decide that they will push for more concessions at essentially gunpoint we will be back in this position of worse.Between January and November of this year over 2,200 rockets have been launched from the Gaza strip in to Israel, negotiate with Hamas and they will twist this in to a victory, negotiate with moderates can and will bring peace while discrediting Hamas and their actions.

That was a quote from a cartoon, now let me rephrase that: I don't know if there is a solution to the Middle East problem, but I do know that the decision to find a peaceful solution should be in the hands of those who would most benefit from that. Hamas has nothing to gain from peace and everything to lose from peace, so excluding them and negotiating with moderate groups will bring more progress then negotiating with one of the groups build up from the conflict and its power and existence is based upon a never ending war. Hamas benefits if no solution is found while the Palestinians in general suffer as a result.

First off I would like to state that I understand that there are dozens of topics on this subject but all of them revolve around the same issue and few if any of them that I have seen discuss options on how this conflict might end. At the end of the day we can argue who is right and who is wrong and use history to support our position but in 20 years we will most likely be seeing the same events playing out on a different day. Ultimately the cease fire between Hamas and Israel is no more then a ceasefire and has no chance of succeeding beyond that unless a long lasting solution could be found. I would like to ask of people to discuss positive options for a long lasting solution rather than bring the arguments from the other threads in to this discussions. For a long lasting peace I believe the solution has to come from Israel rather then the Palestinian side, mainly because in that conflict there are 3 sides the Palestinians, Israel and the terrorist organizations(Hamas etc...) and Hamas to destroy Israel and their existence and power comes from the fight against Israel and thus they do not benefit from peace. Israel can defeat Hamas militarily but with every defeat suffered by the terrorists they engineer it so that many civilians die in the conflict so as to guarantee a level of hate against Israel and a substantial pool of manpower for rebuilding and future conflicts. My belief is that the Palestinians are backing Hamas and other terrorist organizations because of the above mentioned actions where Hamas provokes Israel and hides behind civilians thus guaranteeing the everlasting hatred for the Israelis but also because they the Palestinians have nothing to lose but their lives and everything to gain even if the chance of victory is minuscule. For Israel to have peace they need to in a manner of speaking defeat the Palestinians and their will to fight while largely ignoring Hamas and the other terrorist organizations. Now there are the obvious options to defeat the Palestinians, ethnic cleansing and genocide come to mind but they are drastic and monstrous “solutions” that solve nothing when the dust settles and in fact will most likely expand the conflict significantly. My belief is that Israel needs to give in to some of the requests of the Palestinian people and attach consequences for failing to stop the violence against Israel by Terrorist organizations, essentially have a carrot and a stick policy. To accomplish this there needs to be an arab nation willing and able to assist in this effort and the best nation to do that would be Egypt mainly because they are affected by this conflict, they could benefit tremendously by being part of the solution and they have great power to stop the flow of weapons in the area as they are the only other nation bordering the Gaza Strip. By giving Palestinians something to lose, something they have not been able to gain through other means might just be the way to destroy their will to fight because they would have real results and can see a better future for themselves and their children and as a result would most likely do anything within their power to prevent the terrorist organizations such as Hamas from destroying it.

The point is the power he has, nobody is suggesting giving the PM any more power, you seem to be the only one who is arguing even though no one else in the thread is arguing the opposite point. If the NDP were to get a majority I would expect the next 5 years to be following the NDP agenda and the PM whoever that may be can push his own policies only as far as his/her caucus is willing to go even when it is against the wishes of the constituents. The PM can do a lot as long as his own caucus supports him/her, should they say enough is enough and stop supporting the policies then the PM has little power. You seem to have an agenda to argue and you ignore what anyone says and argue your point without regard to how relevant it is to the points in question. Sure they are in an imaginary world, but in the real world not so much. Only if you actually believe that Heads of State are above the law. Sure they are, if his own MP's do not support the PM, he can do very little. If his MPs have unwavering support he can do a lot, he can do only as much as his MPs are willing to tolerate, no support, he loses the majority and he has to play nice with the other parties to get thing done. It makes you a tyrant wannabe, someone does not agree with you, and you try to force your will on them through the use of words and phrases you know nothing about. As opposed to calling people traitors to shut them up? Read back that rant you gave and tell me it is not saturated with your self-delusions of grandeur because you seem to believe your opinion carries more weight then anyone else. Your opinion does not carry any more weight then anyone else's and thus you have no right to spew insane, idiotic BS and accuse people of disloyalty and treason when you seem to lack the basic understanding of those terms. You made a post that made you sound like you were insane, accusing people of outlandish crimes simply for disagreeing with you. You make insane comments or idiotic comments and I will call you out on them. So lets recap, you don't agree with Argus and call him a traitor and you cannot provide any comments to support your accusations because there were none made to support them. He stated how he saw the power of the PM which is apparently not the same way you see it... I guess he is a traitor as you are the all knowing god of politics and anyone who sees things different should bow down to you or be a tratitor for all eternity.

And as long as the PM remains within the bounds of the constitution he has tremendous power.

You have that magic touch... Its a sh*tty job, but someone has to do it. Explain how any of the things that Argus posted constitute "Treason" or make him a "traitor" , "corrupt" and/or "disloyal". Having an opinion different then you does not make any of us traitors, corrupt or disloyal, it makes us people with different opinion then you. A Prime minister with a majority can get away with as much as their party is willing to accept, the Queen may use any power assigned to her only as a last resort and will thus let the PM do just about anything before the Queen interferes. It does not erase the fact that a PM with a majority government has as much power as his MP's are willing to give him/her. Please inform me as to where anyone even suggested that the PM was above the law. Again, nobody suggested that the PM is immune from prosecution. Sorry, you live in a make believe land where everyone must be of your opinion or they are traitors. corrupt or disloyal. The fact is that at this point in time, the CPC MP's are the once who decide how much power the PM has and it will be a loon time before the Queen or the GG even contemplate any interference in the internal affairs of this country. To be fair, your post sounded insane besides I am not a qualified practitioner of medicine hence I cannot make a judgement either way And what does calling people disloyal, corrupt and traitors make you? And where have I shown any lack of support for the Charter of Rights? Gee there you go with the insane accusations again. You are not normal if you accuse people of crimes against this country simply because they hold an opinion contrary to your own, it is not a dictatorship people are entitled to their opinions, fi you don't like that Argus or anyone else holds a different opinion the you should keep that to yourself and make scarce with the accusations.

I think you need to learn the law as that tirade sounded a tad insane.

Its the same person starting the same thread with the same argument every other day.That person who now most likely has 2 accounts should receive a warning every time he recycles the same argument and if they don't stop they should be suspended as all others who break the rules. One way to deal with this is to make popular topics a sticky so that they remain at or near the top of the forum this way the same topic could be used over and over again and if someone opens another topic for the same issue they better have a different aspect to discuss or that topic is merged with the main thread.

The Heroic Hamas is using the media as human shields http://news.national..._medium=twitter And if you look at the picture the IDF is doing a great job avoiding unnecessary casualties with such precision strikes. If they were the blood thirsty oppressors of Hudson Jones's bud's dreams they would have levelled the building and a couple others around them. Hamas sends unprovoked attacks against civilians, and when the IDF comes knocking they hide in Heavily populated areas in order to cause mass casualties and cry about brutal Israel to the fools who support terrorist scum like Hamas, the same organization that is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Palestinians are in their current position because of their own idiocy not because of Israel, they had a choice and they made the wrong one and paid for it, are paying for it and will continue paying for their wrong choices for the forceable future.

You are right, I come to your house and kill your family but you are the brital one for defending yourself and your family. I have not heard any of you say anyhting about the Palestinians stopping their rocket attacks. Seems to me you would like Israel to stop defending itself while letting Palestinians kill Israelis with impunity because as an entity they are stupid enough to let others use them as a pawn in their own agenda.

So please tell me what should Israel do? Should they stop any and all retaliation? Put down their arms and let the rockets rain in? Would you advocate for the same thing if it were Canada? If rockets were raining in any major city of Canada we should sit by and let it happen? Or would you support retaliation?You ignore the actions of Palestinian terrorists and blame the whole mess on Israel, neither one is completely innocent but at the end of the day one side is defending itself while the other is sacrificing its people to further the goals of it "allies" nations that dont care one little bit for them.

Axis of Evil? Iran, Iraq and North Korea? I highly doubt Israel plays with those guys...

In this case it has nothing to do with the spoils of war, the Arabs gambled and lost, then used Palestinians as a perpetual crisis to be brought out when war is desired. At the end of the day Israel does not want to be in the Gaza any more then the Palestinians want them there.

The 1948 Arab-Isreali War was instigated by the Arabs against the Israelis, now when either side lost land the losing side did their best to evacuate their people out of the area, be it the Arabs or Israelis except for the Palestinians, the one group that was left out to dry by the Arabs. Why you ask? Because the Arabs believed that with better preparation they should be able to defeat the Israelis shortly and in the meantime it does not hurt to use the Palestinians as an excuse, unfortunately for the Palestinians the Arabs were and are no match for Israel even when they outnumbered the Israeli military 3,4 or 5 to 1 and the Arabs were never able to defeat Israel, in fact they just kept on losing more territory in every war they started. The point here is that the Arabs used the Palestinians as a casus belli and could not care less about them and Israel is just defending itself. The Palestinian people need to realize that the Arabs are not looking out for them rather they put them in this position in order to further their own goals, the Israelis don't care about them because Israel has to protect it's citizens from outside aggression and this leaves the Palestinians to wake up and realize that they need to look out for themselves and distance themselves from the Arabs and prosper, or stick with the Arab cause and remain a casus belli until either the Arabs give up on the destruction of Israel, or they succeed...either way it will be a long wait. And you are blaming Israel for retaliating and "killing" innocent children even though Palestinian terrorist organizations are using area's with plenty of children to store their weapons in order to cause just this outcry? If the Palestinians stopped attacking Israel or stopped using children as human shields then the Israelis won't be killing anyone but the deserving. The main difference is that Palestinian terrorist TARGET civilians while the Israeli military targets TERRORISTS who just happen to use children as human shields and then fools use that as proof of how "evil" Israel is. Read up on history and see who the real aggressor has been over the last 50 or 60 years, and then read up on who wants to destroy who. Do you believe that Israel should put down their arms and let terrorists launch rockets at their civilians without retaliation? Would you be satisfied if someone started launching missiles at Canada and the government did nothing?

highly doubt that, neither country will risk a major war in order to protect Iran just like Russia will not go to war to protect Syria.

Thats argument would have made sence if there was no violence in the streets of Toronto but saying this BS after the violence we saw makes me laugh. You are saying we did not need as much police because the protestors were so peaceful? Were you here during the G20?

1.Challenger Jets- There was no context to why they were used it was thrown out that they were used and it cost x number of dollars without ever explaining that the majority of the cost is there wether they are used or not. 2.F-35's- Seems to me that majority of the media is jumping on the F-35's because the government "lied" about the total cost while ignoring the fact that the same method was not applied to other recent purchases. 3.The whole bullshit of complaining about the Federal Government paying out the severance pay that was started well before their time ignoring the fact that they also cancelled it and thereby saved billions of dollars in the future. 4."Harpers war in Afghanistan"... how many times have I opened a paper and had to read some bullshit about how Harper is responsible for getting us involved in Afghanistan. No matter who is at fault it will always be turned around to being Harper's fault one way or another.

The republicans created this mess and have worked for most of Obama's term to sabotage any progress without any regard for the people of the country. Romney is promising to get the country out of the mess the Republicans created by offering a vague plan that has little hope of success... at least for the non millionaires.