Yzermandius19

Democrats are already hemorrhaging support in key battlegrounds states, and Trump hasn't even gotten started on them yet. By the time the finally have a nominee and Trump is focusing fire on them, their campaign will already be doomed.

It did help Obama too. Obama 4D Chess to plant a clearly false story to be used as bait to make his political opponents look crazy when they brought it up, another example of others abandoning the center to him. The Obama Derangement Syndrome Republicans played right into his hands and helped make it a lock that he was re-elected in 2012. Trump didn't give a shit about the Republicans winning in 2012 though, so he helped throw them under the bus by getting them to focus too much on the birther thing, while helping himself.

Obama actually started the birther thing himself, claiming he was born in Kenya when he ran for the Illinois Senate, even wrote it in a booklet to promote his candidacy. Clinton then tried to use it to little effect in 2008, and only then did Trump pile on a few years later, and the media tried to front like it was all a Republican conspiracy the entire time after they ran with it after he was elected. The media's selective memory bias on display yet again.

Which they cannot do, because they play right into hands by being driven nuts by his antics, and refuse to adopt a strategy that could actually beat him. Of course they don't have candidate who could execute the best strategy to win, because the entire primary field has already strayed too far from center to recover. So the best strategy for them at this point, is to admit defeat, just phone it in and tank, pick Warren or Sanders, get smashed and discredit the far left by showing they can't win the EC, then come back in 2024 without the far left baggage, if possible. If they wise up in the short run and run Biden, that could lead to learning all the wrong lessons from still losing, thinking that they only lost to Trump because they ran candidates closest to the center in the primary fields of 2016 and 2020, and they need to embrace the far left even more in 2020, because moderate Democrats can't win because they don't energize far left voters who they will continue to mistake for a much larger portion of the American electorate than they really are. Blaming it all on Clinton and Biden's centrism. If that happens, they lose in 2024 as well.

If you took out the subsidies they'd be raking in $167 billion in profits. Jacee of course wants to believe that fossil fuels aren't profitable without subsidies and green energy would take over without them, but as usual, she is wrong due to engaging in wishful thinking. Thankfully her solution to is to level the playing field and allow the market to sort things out, based on that delusion, so it all works out. One thing this poll shows is that even Canadians do not support giant government power grabs to address the climate change issue, fake environmentalists using the threat of climate doomsday to push far left extremist policies should take notes, their strategy is failing miserably. Even NDP and Liberal voters don't want to give up more than $500 a year to the government to "fight climate change", this attachment to the "climate crisis" angle to try and guilt people into giving more power to the government is an anchor around the neck of the environmentalist movement.

With counter-productive enemies like that, Trump doesn't need friends, he can simply rally the enemies of his enemies to vote against the crazy Democrats by voting for him.

Trudeau winning with a lower approval rating than Trump should be an indication that Trump's approval is clearly not a sign of his doom, as the wishful thinkers wish was the case.

Except they aren't taking him seriously and are doubling down on fail. The Democrats aren't smart enough to take him seriously.

We were just talking about the dynamics that resulted in "america under president trump" and that's somehow off-topic? /shrugs Whatever. I'm done discussing it with someone like Boges who refuses to argue in good faith on the subject, and in this thread in general, so I'm just going to drop it anyway, as per your request. But it's 100% on-topic.

Whatever.

Trump is further left than McCain and Romney. 2016 Clinton and the 2020 Dem Field are further to the left than Obama. Those are facts, you are the one who doesn't appreciate facts.

Obama is to the right of all the 2020 Democrats. Trump will win no matter who they nominate, they have conceded the center to Trump. Trump is not far right, he has moved the Republicans left of where they were in 2008 and 2012, while the Democrats have also moved to the left since then. The result is that Democrats are moving further away from center while Republicans are moving closer to it. Trump is a New York Liberal who hijacked the Republican Party, he didn't win by moving the Republicans to the right, he won by moving them towards the center. McCain and Romney are both further to the right than Trump.

McCain was too far to the right, conceded the center to Obama. Gore was too far to the left, conceded the center to Dubya. Not revisionist history, follows the model exactly. The idea that Dubya was far right and Obama was far left, is just incorrect, they ran to the center, and that's why they won. Compassionate Conservatism, No Red States/ No Blue States. Wake up. Like I say, you don't know what American center is.

The pejoratives the right used to slander Obama are irrelevant, has nothing to do with reality, clearly Republicans weren't selling voters on Muslim socialist tip, or they would have won. Clearly Obama Derangement Syndrome was a clear example of Republicans moving too far to the right and conceding the center to Democrats. If you go back to every American election in the last fifty years, the party that was the closest to the center won the presidency, and it goes back further than that. You can act like it's impossible to predict who the president will be, but it's actually really easy, some people just suck at it.

It's clearly apparent. You just don't know what the center is in America, because you are used to Canadian politics where the center is clearly on the left. Hence why you think the Republicans are way out there and the Democrats are closer to the center. Democrats are closer to Canadian Center, but further than the Republicans from the American center. When Obama was running, the Democrats were closer to the American center and Republicans were too far to the right, now that Trump is running, the Republicans are closer to the American center and Democrats are too far to the left.

Kamala is running to the far left, Pete is running to the far left as well. Buttigieg and Biden are least far left Democrats running with a chance of winning the nomination, but they are both running to the far left. All the Dem candidates are running further left in 2020 than Clinton was in 2016. The Dems are much further left in 2020 than they were in 2016, and they were much further to left in 2016 than they were in 2012, and further to left in 2012 than they were in 2008 as well. This constant leftward movement is a dumb strategy, and it will cost them in the general.

The Dems should just run Warren or Sanders, because if Biden wins the nomination and loses to Trump, which he will, they will probably think that is a sign they need to go even further to the left in 2024, misreading another election loss yet again, and that will cost them 2024 as well. Better to tank with a candidate running as a far lefty now and see how dumb a strategy that is in 2020, instead of trying it in 2024 and losing yet again. They have no one who can beat Trump, and running the candidate who will fail the least will likely result in them taking the wrong lessons from 2020, just like they did in 2016. If I were the Democrats, I'd rather not take that risk, just tank for the good of the party long term, and discredit that far left nonsense dragging them down like an anchor.

Trump is a better liar, Democrats don't have liar that skilled. Another reason he's going to win in 2020. The narrative that Clinton lost because she was too far to the right is exactly why the Democrats will lose in 2020, they have it exactly backwards. Obama won the Rust Belt by playing to the center, not running to the far left. Clinton lost the rust belt playing to the far left and abandoning the center, thinking that's why she lost to Obama because Obama outflanked her on the left in the primary, and that was why Obama won the Rust Belt in 2008 and 2012, but she had it backwards, and her overreaction cost her dearly. The Democrats are now doubling down on her failed strategy, thinking there is nothing wrong with the strategy, it's all Clinton's fault, the strategy is unstoppable without her running. But they are simply buying their own press releases, trapped in the bubble of their urban cantonments, projecting their views on the rest of America.

Voter perception is what matters, not fine policy details most Americans don't even pay attention to. Clinton ran to the left of Obama in 2016 and now Democrats are running to left of 2016 Clinton in 2020, doubling down on the exact strategy that cost them the Rust Belt in 2016. You give Democrats too much credit in learning lessons from 2016, they learned nothing and are doubling down on fail. Open your eyes, enough of the wishful thinking that Democrats can't be that dumb, when they clearly are being that dumb and more.

You think people care about fine policy details? Funny. Another reason why Hillary lost, she thought they cared about that too. Clinton ran on Open Boders, Obama was the Deporter in Chief. She ran on having a vagina, and it being her turn. Obama ran on no Red America, No Blue America, just America, Clinton thought Blue America was so supreme and Obama was proof, so she didn't need to campaign in swing states Obama won. Open your eyes. Clinton ran to the right of Obama in 2008, lost and then overreacted. In 2016 she ran to left of Obama in 2012 in a failed attempt to rally the base because she thought she didn't need swing voters. That's what happened.

They are doing it as we speak. They are running even further to the left in 2020, that doesn't play in the states the Dems lost in 2016. Swing states are in the center, not the left. Corporatist Democrats can be woke too, lots of woke corporations out there. Identity politics do not fly in the rust belt without Obama running against Republicans conceding the center to him.

She ran to left of Obama though, pretended to be more woke than him to try and get the woke left out to vote for her at a similar rate as Obama, but they didn't show up and it backfired spectacularly. That's why she lost. Obama ran to the center while the Republicans conceded it to him, and now the shoe is on the other foot with Trump.

Insane by running to the far left and conceding the center to Trump. If Hillary had run to the center instead of embracing woke politics to try to pander to minority voting blocks that didn't show up in the same numbers they did for Obama, and never were going to, she would have won. She thought she had the center in the bag when she was alienating them by running to left instead to center. Now the Democrats are doubling down of that failed strategy and have no candidate who can beat Trump, these 2020 chumps will lose far worse than Hillary did, especially in those states they need to take back to beat Trump.

Well if the Blue Team hadn't gone insane, Trump probably wouldn't have won, but they did, so he won. Now Blue Team has doubled down on the insanity that cost them 2016, and Trump is going to win again in 2020, surprise surprise. Like I say, with enemies like the Democrats, Trump doesn't need friends. He's not running a race against Usain Bolt, he's running against political opponents who can barely crawl, therefore he just needs to walk at the speed of a leisurely stroll to beat them with ease.

The argument isn't between those who think "we should do something" versus those who think "we should do nothing". The argument is between those who think government central planning is the only acceptable version of "doing something" versus those who believe the solutions that work the worst are government central planning. Don't let the envirocommies take the high ground by making it about "doing something" versus "doing nothing" that is the only way they can sell their central planning government power grab trojan horse to the rubes, under the guise of environmentalism. Feeling like you are helping the environment, and actually helping the environment, can be two completely different things. The fake environmentalists are often unable to understand the difference and support doing harm in the name of helping because they don't even realize they are being counter-productive. In other cases it's just a ruse, they know they are being counter-productive to the environmentalist cause, but they are just using that cause to push their extremist policies because the extremism sounds better when cloaked in environmentalism. Make the argument about them being fake environmentalists, who care more about government control over people's lives and derailing free market capitalism than they care about the environment, whether that is their direction intention or not, because those are the outcomes of their plans to "do something". If you don't agree with their counter-productive public policy proposals, they act like you are a science denier, as if their policy proposals have anything to do with science.