blackbird

" 1 Peter 3:16 - Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. Exodus 20:16 - Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 1 Peter 2:1-12 - Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, ..." For a lie to be told, it has to be willful. There is a difference between a lie and an incorrect statement. I never willfully lied. I don't even know what statement you are talking about. But you constantly accuse me of lying. That is your only rebuttal, which is no refutation. It is more an admission you have nothing to counter me. However, I forgive you. I don't think you can help yourself. Cdnfox can't help himself either.. I will say a prayer for you folks.

That's an example of your wrong-headed thinking. We live in a civilized society where government and charitable organizations do what they can to help the less fortunate. Why do you think we have a public health care system? It's to ensure people who can't afford to pay for doctors and medical care receive a certain level of care. Why do you think we have old age pensions and a CPP? It is to ensure that seniors can afford to make ends meet after they retire. Why do you think we have social assistance programs for people in desperate need? Same as above. To help those who can't help themselves. The whole reason of having community and country is to maintain law and order and help those who are less fortunate and need help. There is no such thing in civilized society where we just kick people to the side or in the case of migrants, just kick them out and destroy their families. Everything has to be done with a humanitarian point of view at the forefront. It's as simple as that.

What are you talking about? I thought the discussion was about how to deal with undocumented migrants. So what payment or fixing are you referring to? I never said people were not responsible for their own actions. There are many homeless people in Canada and the government spends a lot of money to try to find low cost housing and provides income assistance. Millions of dollars are spent by government to try to help people in need in Canada. That's is the cost of having a country and maintaining order in society. But I wasn't talking about paying undocumented migrants money or finding homes for them. We were talking about how they should be treated as far as whether they should be allowed to stay in the country. There are many circumstances where they should be allowed to stay if they have a spouse or children with U.S. citizenship. You are wandering way off the subject of how to treat migrants. They have to be treated humanely and not just arrested and deported. Deportation may not be the best option for them and their families.

BS. You are inventing phony arguments as you usually do. You divert to all kinds of silly, ridiculous arguments and comments. Waste of time with you. You are not a serious poster.

Another nonsensical statement. 1. It is not a question of fault of the American public. 2. Running a country costs money for every department. That's the price of having a country and a government. 3. Nobody is saying anybody's illegal actions should be "rewarded". That is you using a fake claim.

You are in no position to say what is right for a wife and kids. That is up to the authorities.

False information. " Rubio said the number of people in the U.S. illegally is "upwards of 20, 25, maybe 30 million." The number of immigrants living illegally in the U.S. has increased under Biden’s administration after remaining stable for years. But it is not as high as Rubio says. Most immigration groups that estimate this population agree the number ranges around 11 million to 12 million people, despite differences in methodologies. The highest estimate is 16.8 million. " PolitiFact | There aren’t 20 million to 30 million immigrants in the U.S. illegally, as Sen. Marco Rubio claimed False again. Write to federal government Minister of Justice if you don't believe me and ask them. They will tell you that in Canada anyone who is being deported for whatever reason has the right to due process. I assume the U.S. is a law-abiding country and everyone has certain rights in the Constitution, even undocumented migrants. Of course, but what does that mean? The government also has a duty to follow the Constitution and laws. Your statement is a broad generality and not a legal statement and it does not address individual rights which are enshrined in the Constitution. quote Right to Due Process The Fifth Amendment to the Constitution states that “no person . . . shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty or property, without due process of law.”² In the simplest terms, due process means that a person cannot be deprived of their legal rights without proper application of the law. That is, a person cannot have their property taken away from them, or be placed in jail without first going through the legal system to determine if they are guilty of the crime they are accused of, and determining the applicable punishment. In other words, proper application of the law means treating an undocumented immigrant just the same as a natural born citizen before the court. unquote Undocumented Immigrants’ Rights Under the United States Constitution I explained that very clearly but you ignored it. I am not repeating it. Go read it yourself.

You obviously didn't bother reading what I said. I said if there are crimes and punishments for illegal migrants, that punishment can be done in the U.S. like every other criminal case. Everything should be done to avoid destroying that family. Keep the families together if at all possible so the breadwinner can support them and the kids don't grow up without a father or mother in dire poverty. Not only is democracy under assault now in the U.S., but the family structure of undocumented migrants is also under assault like never before.

There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that are the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ and believe the Bible and those who are non-believers and heading for a lost eternity of damnation. Humanitarianism is a long word for "love thy neighbour as thyself". Everyone should strive for what God says.

It is not as simple as you try to make it sound. Most crimes probably don't involve murder for one thing. And there is no simple solution that is perfect. But it is the government's job to do the least harm with its decisions. Deporting the father in many cases would cause more harm to the family. The place he would potentially be deported to might be a poor place where there is a lot of crime. So sending him and his family there would cause a lot of harm to the family. If the government just sends the man and lets the family stay in the U.S., that would be breaking up the family and be very harmful too. So the state should do the least harm. Perhaps the criminal offence might result in only a few years in prison or perhaps a suspended sentence which is often the case in Canada. So he could remain with his family and it would be intact. The point is the government must do the least harm to the family and act in a humanitarian way. Don't get your shirt in a not. I know the truth sometimes pricks a bit, but it must be told. Everyone will be held accountable by God for their decisions. There will be no escaping that judgment.

You missed the point entirely. If one of the parents is deported and the spouse is not deported because he or she is a U.S. citizen and/or the children are also U.S. citizens, then definitely deportation is attacking the family structure and destroying it. That causes great harm to the children and spouse. I know you have said you are not a Christian and don't accept the King James Bible as God's word. That would explain your inability to understand the sanctity of the family. You need to rethink all of that. You cannot understand the importance of this unless you become a Christian and read and study the KJV Bible. You are opposing God and are in fact alienated from Him. Everyone is born with a fallen, corrupt nature. The only way to reconcile that divide between you and God is through being born again by accepting Jesus Christ, God's Son, as your Savior and Lord. Read the gospel of John. " The Bible emphasizes the importance of family in countless ways. From the very beginning in Genesis to the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament, family plays a crucial role in shaping our spiritual and social lives. Whether you’re exploring the Old Testament or diving into the Gospels, you’ll find that family is a recurring theme, underscoring its significance in God’s plan for humanity. Family as God’s Design God’s design for family is evident right from the creation story. In Genesis 1:27-28, it’s clear that family is fundamental to God’s vision for humanity: “So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, ‘Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.'” This passage highlights a few key points: Creation of Man and Woman: Both were created in God’s image, establishing the foundation for equality and partnership in family life. Be Fruitful and Multiply: This command underscores the importance of procreation and the continuation of human life through families. Stewardship: Families are tasked with stewardship of the earth, indicating that family units are integral to societal and environmental responsibility." The Importance of Family in the Bible - PowerfulJesus.com

Children of illegal migrants who are born in the U.S. are, according to the Constitution, automatically U.S. citizens. So if an illegal migrant has a spouse who is an American citizen and/or has children born in the U.S., that changes the whole picture and such illegal migrants should not be deported. It is not the children's fault that they have a parent who is an illegal migrant. So on humanitarian grounds, such migrants should not be deported. Even if a migrant committed a criminal offence, if they have a spouse or children who are U.S. citizens, they should not be deported, but they should be punished in the U.S. in the area in which their family lives for any crime. Children should not be punished for the faults of a parent. Deporting a parent of an American child is both inhumane and may be breaking up a family. The family structure is a kind of sacred structure that must be protected and respected.

There is something else I wonder if you even think of. Children of illegal migrants who are born in the U.S. are, according to the Constitution, automatically U.S. citizens. So if an illegal migrant has a spouse who is an American citizen and/or has children born in the U.S., that changes the whole picture and such illegal migrants should not be deported. It is not the children's fault that they have a parent who is an illegal migrant. So on humanitarian grounds, such migrants should not be deported. Even if a migrant committed a criminal offence, if they have a spouse or children who are U.S. citizens, they should not be deported, but they should be punished in the U.S. in the area in which their family lives for any crime. Children should not be punished for the faults of a parent. Deporting a parent of an American child is both inhumane and may be breaking up a family. The family structure is a kind of sacred structure that must be protected and respected. It would clearly be fascist to attack the family by deporting one or both parents when the other spouse or children are U.S. citizens. Also, if they committed a criminal offence,and their family are U.S. citizens, it may be preferable and more humane to punish them in the U.S. as near as possible to their family. This is for the benefit of the family who are U.S. citizens and are innocent in all of this. That is what being humanitarian means. That is government's responsibility in a civilized society.

I am not talking about those who have been convicted of serious criminal behavior, but I am talking about those who are following the laws. You seem to think most of the undocumented migrants are engaged in criminal behavior, which you can't prove. You are making false assumptions. Coming into the U.S. illegally because you are in poverty and you are desperate to help feed your family or find a safe life for your family and escape a crime-ridden country, is not what could be called a crime worthy of deportation. It is simply being human or a humanitarian. Do you understand the Bible teaches that Christians are to have a humanitarian attitude to those less fortunate and in poverty such as migrants from other countries who are trying to provide a better life for themselves and their families? Your attitude of condemning them and supporting deportation of them without question seems to go entirely against the humanitarian teachings of the Bible and love of thy neighbour. People should not be deported without a good reason such as proven criminality; they should be allowed to stay on humanitarian grounds if at all possible.

Clearly you don't know anything about the Constitution, laws, and court rulings. You just pull your ideas out of thin air and post them. Non-citizens do have legal rights, even if their rights are not always respected or adhered to. quote What constitutional rights do undocumented immigrants have? Politics Jun 25, 2018 5:08 PM EDT On Sunday, President Donald Trump tweeted that undocumented immigrants should be immediately returned “from where they came” with “no Judges or Court Cases.” This, along with the administration’s “zero-tolerance” immigration policy and the recent spike in family separations at the border — a practice President Donald Trump ended through executive order — has called attention to the legal rights of immigrants under U.S. law. What rights do undocumented immigrants have to a court hearing, to an attorney or to free speech? What rights do their children have to education? How those rights play out in practice is more complex. To answer those questions, we must start with a more basic question–does the U.S. Constitution apply to undocumented immigrants? “Yes, without question,” said Cristina Rodriguez, a professor at Yale Law School. “Most of the provisions of the Constitution apply on the basis of personhood and jurisdiction in the United States.” Many parts of the Constitution use the term “people” or “person” rather than “citizen.” Rodriguez said those laws apply to everyone physically on U.S. soil, whether or not they are a citizen. As a result, many of the basic rights, such as the freedom of religion and speech, the right to due process and equal protection under the law apply to citizens and noncitizens. How those rights play out in practice is more complex. Right to due process What the law says: The Fifth Amendment states that “no person … shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” The issue of due process is at the heart of many immigration cases, including Reno v. Flores, the 1993 Supreme Court case that has returned to the spotlight with the surge in family separations. The case led to an agreement requiring the government to release children to their parents, a relative or a licensed program within 20 days. In the ruling, Justice Antonin Scalia wrote “it is well established that the Fifth Amendment entitles aliens to due process of law in deportation proceedings.” How it works in practice: Immigrants have the right to due process. But in reality, says, Andrew Arthur, a resident fellow in law and policy at the conservative Center for Immigration Studies, “courts of law run the gamut.” In some cases, immigrants are not granted a hearing at all. When asked about the president’s tweet, White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders pointed to the process of “expedited removal,” which was created by the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996. “Just because you don’t see a judge doesn’t mean you aren’t receiving due process,” Sanders said. Under the expedited removal process, immigrants who have been in the country illegally for less than two years and are apprehended within 100 miles of the border can be deported almost immediately without going through a court hearing. The exception is asylum seekers, who must be granted a hearing. Those who are not processed through expedited removal have the right to due process in an immigration court, where the main goal is to decide whether a person has a legal claim to remain in the U.S. “In immigration court, you have very few rights,” said John Gihon, an immigration attorney who spent six years as a prosecutor for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement before moving into private practice. Gihon says the bar for what constitutes evidence is lax in immigration court. Documents do not have to be authenticated, and hearsay, a statement made by someone outside of the court, as opposed to on the witness stand, counts as admissible evidence. Hearsay is not allowed in most U.S. courts. “In the majority of cases, it’s a lock solid 100 percent guaranteed conviction because there is little defense, and most would confess they crossed the border illegally,” Gihon said. The right to legal counsel What the law says: The Sixth Amendment states that “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall…have the assistance of counsel for his defense.” The Supreme Court ruled in the 1963 case Gideon v Wainwright that if a person is too poor to hire an attorney, the government must appoint one. How it works in practice: Because most deportation proceedings are civil rather than criminal cases, the right to legal counsel often doesn’t apply. The Trump administration’s zero-tolerance policy now requires most illegal border crossings to be tried as criminal cases, the exception being parents who cross the border illegally with children. After public outcry about separating families, the head of Customs and Border Protection said Monday the agency has stopped referring parents for prosecution. Other immigrants will still be charged with a crime. Under the law, anyone facing a criminal charge has the right to counsel. However, the government is only required to provide counsel if the person is accused of a felony. Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. In recent weeks, people have donated millions of dollars to nonprofit groups to pay for immigrants’ legal fees. The Trump administration’s decision to criminally charge immigrants has overwhelmed the courts, as demonstrated last month by a leaked photo of a trial in Pecos, Texas. The image shows dozens of men in orange jumpsuits being tried en masse. In such proceedings, reports the Intercept, which originally published the photo, trials can last only minutes per defendant. The right to be with your family What the law says: Critics of family separation have pointed to the legal right to “family integrity.” This right is not spelled out in the Constitution but was established through court rulings in the early 20th century, Rodriguez said. “People have a right to be with and commune with their family. It’s a very basic principle,” she said. The government can split up families in extraordinary circumstances, such as in the case of child abuse, but it cannot do so without going through a legal process. How it works in practice: Before Trump signed the executive order Wednesday, the administration had divided families as a matter of course, without considering the individual cases. The ACLU sued, arguing the policy was unconstitutional. The court has not issued a final ruling, and the president’s executive order could change the case. But a judge did rule earlier this month that the case could proceed, saying immigrants have a right to “familial association” under the Constitution. Right to vote or hold office What the law says: The Constitution does not prohibit anyone from voting. Instead, it spells out who cannot be denied the right to vote. The 14th Amendment says men who are U.S. citizens and over the age of 21 must be allowed to vote, unless they have committed a crime. The 15th Amendment prohibits anyone from denying the right to vote based on skin color and the 19th Amendment prohibits denying the right to vote based on sex (aka being a woman). It wasn’t until 1926 that all states passed laws barring noncitizens from voting. Congress passed a law 70 years later prohibiting illegal immigrants from voting “for the office of President, Vice President, Presidential elector, Member of the Senate, Member of the House of Representatives, Delegate from the District of Columbia, or Resident Commissioner.” How it works in practice: If you are not a U.S. citizen, voting in a federal election could land you in prison for up to three years or lead to deportation. States can impose their own, sometimes harsher, penalties for breaking the law. However, because elections are largely a local affair, some states allow local governments to decide whether noncitizens can vote in local elections. In fact, noncitizens in Chicago have been allowed to vote for school board since 1989. New Yorkers who were not citizens were given the same right from 1969 until 2003, when local school boards were abolished there. Now San Francisco and Maryland are also giving noncitizens the right to vote in some local elections. The right to education What the law says: There is no “right to education” in the Constitution but two other sections do come into play when considering whether undocumented migrant children should have access to education. First, in the case Plyler v. Doe, the Supreme Court ruled that if children who are citizens have access to a free, public education, so should undocumented immigrant children. That is because the 14th Amendment says the government cannot “deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” What it means in practice: The court case means undocumented children cannot be prohibited from enrolling in a public school. But what if a child is being detained and, therefore, does not have access to a public school. That is where, once again, the Flores settlement comes into play. The settlement requires that facilities where children are kept must meet minimum requirements for providing health care, education, recreation and other child care services. Right against unreasonable search and seizure What the law says: The Fourth Amendment establishes the right “against unreasonable searches and seizures.” What it means in practice: While this law would generally apply to both citizens and noncitizens, there is a key caveat known as the “border search exception.” This exception dates back to the very first Congress, which passed a law allowing searchers at the border as a means to collecting duties. As a result, courts have long upheld that searches at the border are not considered “unreasonable” for the very fact that they occur at the border. The question courts have grappled with since is what constitutes the border. Searches at airports and other ports of entry for example are often considered legal. The Justice Department has also established a 100-mile wide “extended border” where Border Patrol agents can conduct searches if they meet certain criteria. unquote What constitutional rights do undocumented immigrants have? | PBS News

Your thinking is warped. People that have been in the country for years, maybe decades and are working in jobs that nobody else wants, are important for the economy. Just sending ICE out and arresting these people, who are not criminals, but are supporting their families, is crazy and inhumane.

Not if you're trying to protect and save your family. You are dumb. If you were in their shoes, you would be doing the same thing. There are many people who came in that way over the past 50 years and work in the U.S. The world is an imperfect place and people have to be dealt with in a reasonable way, not like a fascist. They're not criminals as you falsely claim.

If you want to be a fascist, you can say that. But you don't understand that is how people from places like central and south America have immigrated to the U.S. probably for the last 50 or 100 years or more. They are not well educated. Maybe very little education and don't know anything about American federal law. So you are talking into thin air. That is not how the real world worked for the past 100 years in the U.S. I have told you many times, they place the safety and well-being of their families first and don't know anything about the technicalities of laws in Washington. You really need to get educated. Millions came to America in the past 50 years, not in the last four years under Biden. They have worked and filled jobs in agriculture, hotels, etc. that nobody else would take. That's just how they survived. This happened under previous Republican and Democratic governments for many decades and no real solution has been found.

That is BS. Undocumented people who are desperate to protect their families have been coming into the U.S. for many decades from well back in the 20th century. The naturalization process is not easy. Nobody knows how many are criminals except some people like you and the MAGA type who seem to be saying they are all criminals.

That term sounds very hateful and fascist. People who are suffering poverty, crime, threats from gangs, and are trying to protect their family by going to a safer place are refugees, not "illegal aliens' from mars.

That is not true. You need to do some study of what has been going on. He and ICE have been deporting every undocumented person they could find and countless people who should not have been deported.

This sounds like you believe all or most undocumented migrants who are working in honest jobs are criminals. Most of the undocumented migrants being deported are not criminals by any normal definition of the word. Whatever happened to the basic principle of justice that a person is innocent until proven guilty? Have Republicans and MAGA people all rejected that principle?

These land acknowledgements that are being made frequently by politicians are not wise. It only provokes FN activists to demand more and the acknowledgements will be used by FN activists to make further demands and claims. White man will be paying forever.

What we have are people that post nonsense about arbitrarily depriving other people of their basic human rights. But if that ever happened to them, they would be the first to cry fowl. That would be ironic ...and hypocritical. Isn't it strange how everyone expects their own rights to be respected, but if there is an issue involving blue and red politics, they forget about human rights to try to win an argument. Respect for individual rights is not a party thing or a left versus right thing. It is pure respect for other people's lives and rights.

Unfortunately it seems you don't understand that people, documented or undocumented, have certain rights in the U.S. and Canada. Those are Constitutional rights and legal rights. What you are supporting is something like Hitler's Naziism or Stalin's Communism. Those systems did not recognize human rights of any kind and just crushed everyone they wished. BE CAREFUL FOR WHAT YOU WISH FOR. Loss of human rights and Constitutional rights may be coming sooner than you think.