Goddess

Not sure if I'm getting your drift.....but I'll try: Dog's position is that violence is inherent in Islam - through its holy book and through its history and through the way the majority of the world's Muslims behave. In no way has he ever said that ALL Muslims are violent. His stand is that there is more violence in Islam than normal because of the verses explicit in the book, the history of the religion and its effects on its adherents in general. Dia diagrees - to her, the book is just being wrongly interpreted and only by a tiny, almost miniscule, "You're an Islamophobe if you have any concern about Islamic terrorism" portion of Muslims. To her the religion is a beautiful record of peace and love and anyone who doesn't believe that is morally bankrupt, in her opinion. So in order to disagree with Dog, she must re-word everything he says by following him around the board and making sure that everyone sees HER interpretation of what he's posted, in the hopes that others will eventually only see HER interpretation and not what he's actually said. Mudballs. If you throw enough of them, eventually something sticks. She will be so happy that you have accepted her interpretation of what Dog posts, picked up that mudball she created and thrown it at the target she has chosen for you.

Ah, I see. You've picked up one of Dialamah's mudballs. She'll be so happy.

And I was assaulted by a Muslim man at my work because I told him No about something - he got 6 months for throwing an object at my head, which I deflected with my hand and needed stitches. And I had my hand slapped and was shoved by a Muslim man for handing some food tickets to his wife, instead of to his 5 year old son. What's your point?

You're not the boss of me and you're not this forum's police, who gets to tell others when and what they post. It's a discussion forum, everyone is allowed to post their thoughts and I am not obligated to you to attack the posters you want me to, nor am I obligated to respond to every post I don't completely agree with. I am not going to re-write people's posts just to find something nit-picky to argue about like you do.

You answered your own question: Whatever your issue is with the Dog, leave me out of it.

**sigh** You are so busy searching for indications of Islamophobia or something not worded exactly how you think it should be that you miss the point almost 100% of the time. No one is saying that violent jihad is "acceptable" for Muslims. But I think you know that and are just mud-slinging again, as usual.

For instance, you say the Koran clearly states jihad is internal. This Muslim scholar disagrees with you. And he quotes the actual verses and explains them. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nabeel-qureshi/is-the-quran-the-roots-of-jihad_b_9594484.html This is why I don't jump all over everything Doggo says, as much as you would like me to. Because much of what he says is the same as what Muslim reformers and ex-Muslims have to say. You frequently advocate the opposite of what Muslim reformers advocate. people have to filter the traditions to produce a peaceful Islam ^^^ Is that not what Doggo always says, too? ^^^ You may not like it, you may not like how he presents it, but his view on this is perfectly valid and supported.

Is that what it SAYS or is that another interpretation of what it says? Doggo at least provides the actual verses.

Yeah, YOU can. But apparently the rest of us are not allowed to. Because every time we do, you show up name-calling and insisting that we talk instead about what Christians did 500 years ago.

She can't differentiate when people are talking about Islam in general and insists you only speak about individual Muslims. Then when you talk about individual cases, she insists they don't represent all Muslims, which we all already know. Basically, she just doesn't want anything bad in Islam talked about.

nevermind. I just figured out what you're trying to do here.

I understand. Because I feel the same way about your claims of objectivity and fairmindedness if I had noticed you chastising Altai when it posts all its shit.

"Rings of Peace" is a great gesture, but frankly it's the easy way to be against anti-semitism if you're a Muslim. The hard way would be to take a stand against things like these Al Qud demonstrations and imams who preach hate. And Dia, don't even start with me about how I don't have any right to say that - because I am a person who took a stand against what was going on in my church and I am very well aware of how difficult that is to go against your community and what the costs are.

That may be how you "perceive" what is being said, because you are hyper-sensitive to the issue. When I'm talking about Islam, I'm talking about mainstream Islam - how it is practiced in all Muslim majority countries and the fundamentalist agenda that is currently being pushed on Muslims all around the world. That there are individual Muslims who don't agree with or don't practice extremist Islam is obvious. You often bring up Nazi times to show how white people jumped onto that bandwagon of hate. The difference between us is that I don't believe Muslims are somehow exceptional people who are immune to following their own crowd down paths of hatred. I think they're just like the rest of us. So when I read about anti-semitism growing at astronomical rates all over the world and see Al Qud festivals being held in Canada (and I believe I actually witnessed one of these hate-filled anti-Jew demonstrations but didn't realize what it was at the time), I am concerned about it. I am also concerned that Muslims In Canada think there's nothing wrong with these demonstrations because it's other religions that are calling them out on it and they are not willingly ending it on their own. https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/reevely-ford-promises-to-ban-al-quds-day-protests-somehow I understand that you do not like this being discussed and will use any excuse to justify why this is only a concern to racists and Islamophobes and your new favourite insult - xenophobes. Sorry, but I'm not waiting until the Jews are in the ovens to say something about this.

That's rich, coming from you. No, you googled til you found an example of a Canadian to prove that we are exactly the same as Pakistan, to apologize for Islam, to minimize what Muslim countries are doing. Except your example doesn't do any of that. You're an apologist for Islam, who doesn't want what goes on in Islamic countries discussed because you feel that if even one Canadian does something that Muslim countries do, then we don't have any right to call them out on their barbarism. You want everyone to shut up about Islam? If we did that, people would still believe the earth was flat, witches would still be burned at the stake, black people would still be slaves, Jews would still be burned in ovens, women would have no equal rights and gays would not be winning their own equality. (Actually that sounds like most Muslim-ruled countries) Should I continue? Or just shut up now and let you continue to be an apologist?

Why not just leave it at that: ridiculous and despicable? Because you must "defend" Islam by trying to equate an entire country wanting to execute someone for making fun of Mohammed with a one-off situation that neither the country, nor the mainstream churches in the country would ever go along with. That's how you constantly "defend" Islam - by trying to make it seem like what Islamic countries are doing, is exactly like what is done in Canada. It's not. By trying to make it seem like what's happening there is Normal behaviour for an entire country. It's not. Just leave it at ridiculous and despicable.

Your comparisons of one-off cases are ridonkulous. If the entire country of Canada was rioting in the streets to have this transgender person brought out of hiding and killed publicly, then you could compare. If the Catholic church of Canada was applauding this transgender person getting death threats, then you could compare. The difference is that the entire country of Canada is not rioting to have this transgender person brought out of hiding and killed publicly. And the Christian community at large, does not applaud death threats to transgender people. You can't see the difference between "there are a few fundie nutjobs in every religion" and "here is a country filled with fundie nutjobs, who have the backing of the government and the people." You can't see it because in the end, it really doesn't matter what is done in the name of Islam, you defend it.

Just because the economic health of the hosting country is bullshit to you, doesn't mean it's not a rational consideration.

It's actually a pretty good site, but when i clicked on the hijb part, it's very pro-hijab. Empowering and freeing for women and all that.

That is the part that is sorely lacking, I feel. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

I've already posted tons of links and info from people who know just as much as not more, that posits otherwise. You refused to read any of that, too. I read it all and I don't know one way or the other. And neither do you. So I go by 1. The history of the religion 2. How it currently operates in countries where it is majority 3. The actions, behaviours and attitudes it produces in its mainstream following. And that is why I lean towards the one I feel is more realistic at this time. It's probably one of the few times in my life that I have not completely accepted the "unicorns & rainbows" view of anything. Have a great Halloween - I'm dressed as a "granny on vacation" today

The problem is that to YOU - anything that doesn't flatter Islam is "demonizing Muslims". The other problem is that it is very easy for apologists, such as yourself, to pooh-pooh various individual examples of Muslim aggression and excuse them away. One by one, they are all explained and excused away by you - this person is a liar, that is a fake news report, those people are Islamophobes, tiny tiny minority, etc. etc. You refuse to see the bigger, world-wide picture. When you put all those individual examples from all over the world together, it's not so easy to explain and excuse away - unless you ignore the continual, increasing confrontation of Islam against the countries and people it did not conquer in earlier centuries of Muslim expansion. Islam does not forget what it believes is its greater mission. It unabashedly affirms that everyone should be Muslim. It does not hesitate to achieve this purpose anywhere it is not resisted. Terrorists are not some inexplicable fanatics acting for no conceivable reason - bombing, beheadings and trucks driven into crowds arises from a faithful reading of the Koran. They are not acting against Islam, they are acting for it and it's long-range mission. You can deny it all you want and castigate DoP for quoting the very passages that are being used to justify Islamic attacks, but that is a fact. You can deny that large portions of the world's Muslims agree with the passages all you want too - but that is also a fact. You are ignorant of any history of Islam, only basing your views on the emotional factor that your sister is converted to Islam and is now a Muslim. You have no more understanding of what Muslims truly believe or how they might act on that belief than anybody else. For that, we should be relying on the history of the religion, how it is currently being practiced in Muslim majority countries and how its followers act. You think Islam has reformed, but it has not. You think Islam has already been changed, into something it cannot be. What is happening is not Islam changing itself - what is happening is that it isolates itself into enclaves. It has learned to use democratic voting as effectively as it uses guns and bombs. Many, many Muslim leaders and followers have publicly stated that they are taking over gradually, with the help of demographics, one after another Western political system - country by country, city by city. Islam will be Islam for as long as the history of Muslim expansion is viewed by majority Muslims as definitive. So, in the end, we can agree to disagree about Islam and Muslim responsibility all we want. You interpret facts one way and I interpret them another. If the people, like myself, who are concerned about what we see happening in Islam, are wrong - it won't be for lack of Islam trying. If we're right, however - we already know what that future will look like.

Truck plows through a crowd - "He's just mentally ill, you're all racists if you think otherwise." Man beats his wife - "He didn't know it was wrong to beat your wife with a hockey stick for 1/2 hour." Man molests young girls at a waterpark - "Their stories weren't consistent, therefore he's innocent." Muslim leaders call for the death of Jews every year at Al Qud - "How dare you wonder why none of the Muslims at the event objected to it!! You f'in racist!!" Every terror attack - "It's the West's fault, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the religion." Don't agree with burkas? - "It's their choice to be treated like that. How dare you question their question their choice, you f'in racist!!" No go zones popping up in every country - "They dont' exist, it's just people demonizing Muslims." Anti-semitism on the rise, Jews leaving France in droves - "There's anti-semitism everywhere, so if you're worried about that you're a f'in racist!" Muslim Rape Game - "It doesnt' exist. Those women are liars."

Here's my post, without the links: Point out the "lies".

Yes, I do think moderates should be doing much more to combat extremism, as it is coming from within their own ranks. That doesn't mean that I "ignore everything they do". It just means that in this age of Islamic terrorism, I feel they should be the ones who are turning in imams and condemning these kinds of celebrations. Frankly, you are the one who is going against what a lot of moderates and progressive Muslims are saying - that other moderates need to speak up more. That's an unfortunate and unhelpful view and I really hope you are not speaking for all Muslims when you say this. I believe everyone - even Muslims - have a duty to speak up and not just sit back and say, "Meh....let other people handle it." The government can only deal with the effects of extremism. It is moderate Muslims and mostly their imams themselves who should be reasoning from the Koran with their mosque attenders to show the wrongness of such extreme views. Good grief, every influential moderate Muslim says the same thing - although I notice you frequently demand the direct opposite of what reformers say should happen. Maybe you should. Instead of ignoring them, making excuses for them and castigating everyone who sees that there are intolerant and hateful Muslims. I have never once said "All bad Muslims are representative of all other Muslims". Not once. But you continue to sling mud at anyone who sees that there are problems in Islam right now. Anti-semitism is growing in every country of the world. And many are connecting it to the migration of Muslim people - not that they are causing it, but that they are "awakening" the sleeping anti-semitism already present and emboldening others to the same. You can deny it all you want, refuse to read anything about what's going on in Europe. But you are wrong. Anti-semitism is growing and these Al Qud celebrations of hate fuel it further. I find it very odd that you continually have to make sure that no one here discusses these things, and if they dare to, you make sure you're here to sling the racist and Islamophobe mudballs until something sticks. Amazing how you see racism and prejudice against Muslim people in everything (who at 1.3 or 1.6 billion people are NOT a minority) but have excuse after excuse after excuse for Muslim intolerance and racism and hatred. In this case, your excuse is you don't like the way I presented the problem. Too bad for you, I don't care - you perceive anti-Muslim in pretty much everything anyone says. Unless it's praising Muslims. Nice distraction, though. Now no one will touch this issue of the hate-filled Al Qud celebrations in Canada now for fear you will latch onto them as a racist Islamophobe and follow them around the board, re-writing everything they say and demanding they not talk about Islamists unless they talk about <<insert Dia's favourite case of of the day here, anything, ANYTHING!! as long as we don't talk about Muslim extremism>>