Goddess

You believe the Iranian government is Muslim? Do you believe that the Iranian government exemplifies Islamic values, then?

You are comparing things that are universally wrong and harmful to things that are universally good. Are you saying that an uncovered woman is like a smoker or a liar? That is a judgement on your part. Other Muslims say it is not a command. No. They came there to hear his opinion on that. They basically ask for that information by attending. It would be rare exceptional circumstance where you would be entitled to tell another Muslim what they should or should not be doing. Do Muslims lose their right to privacy and self-determination when they join the religion? I told an experience of a friend of mine who worked with quite a few Muslim women and one did not cover. The others harassed her mercilessly for it and my friend supported her. I was told that that does not happen and that my friend was lying. Now you are saying that Muslims have a right to harass each other for what they do or do not do. ??? You don't know what I know or don't know. My attitude is critical towards all religions because I have dealt extensively with the damage it does to people. Religions all use the same tactics with slight variations on the details. Your's is no different. Well, you and the other one here assume all the time that because some of us are critical of Islam that we randomly go about criticizing and yanking off hijabs....... Is covering a choice or not? If it's a choice, then a woman who is uncovered should be allowed to be uncovered without anyone shaming or humiliating her or telling her she must cover to be saved.

You don't have a right to say that to individuals. When you say they "should" cover, you're automatically making a judgment that being uncovered is inferior. If YOU feel that YOU should cover, you are free to do that. You are NOT free to tell other women that they "should" cover - even other Muslims. Now, "some" people here will accuse me of telling women they should NOT cover. I do not do that to individuals. Here, we are on a discussion forum discussing the very subject and I am allowed to have and express my opinion. The same as you do - HERE you can say that "Women should cover" but you should be prepared to say why and have others disagree. When you tell individual women that they "should" cover, you are both making a judgment that uncovered women are not doing something they "should" be doing AND you are pressuring others to follow what you believe. Have your opinion or belief. But keep it to yourself unless you are asked. Or are on a discussion forum.

Yes. If you convince them they are morally inferior without the thicker coat and that they will burn in hell for not wearing the thicker coat. By doing those things, you have essentially taken the choice out of their hands.

By a woman, too Too bad Islam took a left turn after that and started oppressing women instead.

From your first link - it's odd that the German authorities created this education program in response to events that some here claim never happened and are not happening. Or if they ARE happening, we should ignore the events and not talk about them because talking about them (and not the actual Muslims doing the raping) is "inciting hatred of Muslims" :

Insults and vagueness. She still can't figure out how my military friends who were stationed in Afghanistan got "free".

Compliment/Slap Islam is also a cult-like religion that women/everyone needs help to escape from. It's really one of the only ones that has an actual death penalty for leaving (actually death penalty is for a lot of things in Islam - from perceived insults to their book, to a woman with a tress of hair poking from under her scarf or refusing to wear it to homosexuality to apostasy, etc.). Most others will just shun those who leave. It's also one of the few that proscribes wife-beating and polygamy. It really is one of the worst for women.

Yes, yes. Anything in the news that is unflattering to Islam is propaganda, misinformation and lies. Pot, meet kettle. Stuff like "Islam deals harshly with homosexuals." What is that - propaganda, misinformation or a lie? Stuff like "Islam is a very misogynistic religion". Propaganda, misinformation or lies? Stuff like "Women should not have to wear burkas to go out in public." Propaganda, misinformation or lies? Stuff like "Islamic terrorism is a real problem in the world." Propaganda, misinformation or lies? No, my dear - it's YOU who doesn't want to hear these things, have them discussed or known. Unfortunately, your bullying tactics cannot prevent all this from becoming known about Islam. People have figured out it's not the "religion of peace". You can fight it all you want, but people know.

Funny and bizarre. Bizarre that these two throw their full support behind a religion that kills/imprisons gays while demonizing those who point this out as wrong. Weird how one of them says "There is no punishment for homosexuality in Islam" and the other says, "Yes, there's a punishment, but no one in Islam actually hates or kills or imprisons gays and any news reports that say gays have been executed are propaganda." What an easy way out - all Islam's atrocities are just "fake news" and propaganda. What kind of person closes their eyes to these things and insists on supporting the rights of the perpetrators and oppressors over the rights of those they are oppressing and killing?

LOL This is all you do here! You re-write posts using nothing but hyperbole. You're a GD master at it! Riiiiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhht. Your worst insults, accusations and threats are all aimed at those who criticize Islam. You have nothing but empathy, excuses and compassion for wife-beaters, gay-bashers, anti-semites, welfare bums, FGM practicers, promoters of burkas/hijabs, etc. Oh yes - if pushed - you will will say you disagree with all those things. But none of the people who practice the above things ever receive your outright condemnation, scum judgments, name-calling and scorn. Only they are offered your empathy and concern, understanding and tolerance. You reserve your caustic tongue only for critics of Islam. You reserve your poisonous verbal attacks only for those who don't show Islam the proper respect you feel it deserves. No you don't. You make excuses for them. You deny what's going on in Islam until you absolutely HAVE TO admit that something is a problem. And then you try to change the subject - to another religion, another group, another anything, just as long as Islam isn't critisized . Every. Time. You don't care about the plight of women in Islam. You don't care that Islam hates Jews and gay peopleand it's followers are causing problems for these groups. They are nothing to you. Only Islam. That is what must be protected.

Meh. It's good to be positive and give people the benefit of the doubt. Just not when it comes to whether women should be covered every time they're in public. Not when the belief is that women are trash and should be treated as trash. Not when it comes to homophobia. Not when it comes to anti-semitism. At some point you have to stand up for what is right. She thinks I'm a monster because I don't believe women belong in burkas. I'm sorrynotsorry. They just don't. I don't care that some Muslims think they do. It's wrong and I'm going to say it's wrong. They're wrong and I'm going to say they're wrong. This is a discussion forum, is it not? According to Dia - who last I heard, has no ownership or authority on this discussion board - I am allowed to say "I don't care for burkas." But I'm not allowed to say WHY. I'm not allowed to give examples of why they are harmful and I'm not allowed to talk about the damage they do to women, to men, to children, to society. If I do give my reasons, I'm told I'm an Islamophobe and a racist. Her only concern is clearing Islam's name - concern for women, concern for girls, concern for gays and Jews - those all have a very low priority and making Islam into the "religion of peace" - not by reforming it, but by demanding it be called that - is all she cares about. She is willing to throw all those groups under the bus, just so Islam isn't talked bad about. Disgusting.

I notice you do this every time a Muslim comes here and talks about their beliefs. You "explain" what they are "really" saying. I notice they never confirm what you say they say, though - they just let you defend them, neither confirming or denying what you say. Why do you feel the need to speak for Muslims? Why not let them speak for themselves?

It's a lie, nevertheless.

It also doesn't sound like anything I would actually say. It DOES, however, sound exactly like what YOU say every time you re-write someone's thoughts. Waiting for your proof.

"From time to time." SMH You are the master of understatement when it comes to Islam. Again, since these countries don't keep records of who they execute for homosexuality, there's no way of knowing the number. From blogs and personal accounts (which you of course, discount) there has been a lot more than 1 (one) homosexual executed in Iran. They also hide them under other laws and most gay people in Muslim countries cannot be open with who they are. You want to argue numbers that you pull out of your ass, while denying the reality of life for thousands of homosexuals under Muslim rule. It does no good to just say, "OK, I guess there may be a SLIGHT problem with homophobia in Islam" , then demand no one talk further about it and bury your head in the sand.

No. I disrespect anyone who outright lies. "Islam has no punishment for homosexuality" "I don't know of any Muslim countries that punish gay people." Do you imagine that I am the only one here that sees these are lies? Lies for Islam.

We all know this is a lie. You are a liar for Islam.

No, they wouldn't. I told you I have friends in the military who suffer from having to watch little boys be raped repeatedly in Afghanistan and you asked how my friends got free from Afghanistan. Deliberately stupid? Or just plain stupid?

And why is it bad for me to say I don't like the burka and I don't agree with them but okay for you to say it?

No, I don't remember saying any of that. Especially this, which you put in quotes as if I did say it: "We don't want these kinds of people in Canada." Provide where I said these words or admit you are a liar who rewrites what everyone says.

You know why you can't determine it? (Although it didn't stop you from throwing numbers around to "prove" that homosexuality is NOT a problem in Islamic countries and that gays are loved and treated well by their families and communities except in "rare" cases. Does anyone here actually believe what you vomit out - that Islam cares for and loves gay people?) Because they don't keep records of it (not prior to about 1990). Because other laws are used to punish homosexuality - such as "debauchery" or "contributing to delinquency of society". (Egypt does this.) Because the majority of gay people in Muslim countries do not "come out of the closet" for fear of imprisonment or death. Meanwhile, while you defend Islam, plenty of gay Muslims are in jail or dead. Almost all of them are in hiding or pretending to not be gay. Lots of gay people in western and European countries are being attacked by Muslims - the very people you claim are tolerant and loving of gays. You don't give a rat's a$$ about gay people - only interested in protecting their oppressors from criticism. Same as burkas - you have zero interest in women's rights and 100% interest in ensuring Islam's stone-age beliefs are respected and accepted by the rest of the planet.

Again - who do you think you are that you can order me around? Your question was answered in what I wrote, making your question truly ignorant.

I can't decide if you're just really, really stupid or just pretending to be.