Goddess

How is that working for them, do you think? I'm not sure it's a good response to fears of Muslim extremism - becoming more extreme.

I waffle on burka banning, but I sometimes wonder if banning it would give women at least one more weapon in their arsenal against it. If the vast majority of Muslims are against the burka, as you say, then those who wear it by choice shouldn't have a problem with a ban. A certain percentage of those who are forced to wear it, their family will think twice about continuing to enforce wearing it, if it's against the law and that law is enforced. But I agree with you that a certain percentage of those who are forced to wear it will be held captive by their family. This is where the law would be able to step in and start charging them with forcible confinement or something. By your own admission, this percentage would be miniscule. I say that, even though even one woman being forcibly confined by her family for not wearing the burka is still wrong. But they would at least gain a bit of strength by knowing they have the law on their side. It would suck for them, yes. And I do understand the personal fortitude it takes to defy family and culture. You mentioned women who had been kidnapped and held captive sometimes for years because no one knew they were being held anywhere. (I'm thinking of the Cleveland girls, maybe you were too.) They had to finally rescue themselves. But when they did, the outpouring of support and resources from others was there. I'm confident that if a woman was being held captive in her home for refusing to wear the burka, if she is able to get out or let someone know the situation, it would be the same.

WHO lists 9 things governments can implement to reduce crime: "Bringing in more immigrants" doesn't even make the list.

There are a lot of different reasons why crime rates fall: focus on prevention, getting rid of repressive policies that interfere with youth education and skills, introduction of targeted programmes, gun control, targeting the inequality that leads to crimes and violence, initiatives to target organized crime, initiatives that tackle drug abuse...... All of these things taken together and worked on together will reduce crime in any given country. To say bringing in lots of immigrants is how to solve crime is so overly simplistic it's idiotic.

Sometimes I "like" a post if there is something in it that gives a different perspective, even if I don't agree with all parts of it. I don't put much stock in "likes" or pay much attention to who "likes" what. But I suppose if you have a large negative number under your profile, you should prolly re-think some of your views.

I don't know what you do for work, Betsy, but I hope it's not counselling rape victims.

No, no. I wasn't directing it to Betsy. It was just a general comment. I've noted that women sometimes accuse other women of lying about being raped. I think that's worse than victim-blaming.

Also pretty sad when a woman is raped and other women call her a liar.

Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I just meant I'd like to hear Altai's explanation, since it was Altai's statement and it was a very bold one and left quite open-ended.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/edmonton-terror-suspect-had-been-deported-from-us-in-2011/ar-AAsSfZR Deported from the US in 2011, came to Canada as a "refugee" and started spouting extremist views but none of that raised any red flags?

We have discussed it before. Please research for it in old posts. No, it's not.

Well, I guess I am the monster you think I am, then. I'm a "maybe" on a burka ban, mainly for security reasons in this day and age. There was a burka'ed lady who used it to hide a giant knife in a Canadian Tire store here recently so she could stab people. And being a frequent traveller, I've noticed burka'ed ladies do not get searched before getting on the airplane, barely questioned or even looked at, which is disturbing to me. The hijab - I don't care for the messages inherent in it (political support of Islam, denigration of women, "I'm modest while other women are whores", I have to hide my filthy female body because men can't control themselves, etc) but I suppose if those are their beliefs and they're proud of them, it's their choice.

Actually, I was interested in hearing what Altai (as a real Muslim) had to say, as it was her/his statement.

The answer is no. I'm not the monster you think you am.

Men look. As women, we get that. What is not appreciated is prolonged leering after you see we're not interested. Then it just gets scary and creepy and uncomfortable. That's what I'm talking about.

Including Islam?

FYI - when women tell men to stop gawking at them, it has little effect. What we need is more MEN telling other men to knock it off. My boyfriend confronted a man who was sitting behind us at a concert a couple weeks ago. Leaned over and said, "Quit leering at my girlfriend. It's disrespectful to her, disrespectful to me and disrespectful to your wife who is sitting next to you." The man didn't argue with him by denying he was leering. But he did leave me alone after that. (It likely helps that my man is 6' 4" )

You've asked me this several times and I've given my answer several times.

Yes, I agree. It's nice to see a man stand up and acknowledge that the veiling thing is an insult to the male gender, too. I don't think that would have gone over very well - Westerners coming into Muslim countries and telling them women have rights or forcing them to adopt women's rights. I'm not certain that Women's rights in Islam are abyssmal solely because of Western influence. But it's something to think about. I thiink the religion itself is pretty adamant about not changing, which obviously has affected any kinds of reforms or developments in Muslim countries. I think this has retarded development more so than Western influences, but I understand you disagree and that's okay. This is why I think it's imperative that we make it clear we will not go along with Islam's mysogynistic views on women, including coverings, segregation and rights. We have worked too hard to go backwards. It distresses me that so many Muslim women are using the freedom in Western countries to return to the view that women must be covered, either partially or completely.

This is a freaky site, but apparently one of the top sites to answer questions on Islam in all languages. Details the "health benefits" of FGM. From a Muslim doctor : https://islamqa.info/en/45528 It's really about controlling women's sexuality.

Because he produced a link that showed that the crimes were mostly minor - graffiti and racist comments mostly. No different than other minorities.

Isn't that what Islam is trying to do in Muslim countries? Edge out every other religion? Make it difficult for them to practice other faiths there? Burn their churches? Whether they do it by sword or by forced conversion or by political policies that discriminate against other religions. This is what I'm talking about - they may not agree with the sword method that ISIS uses, but to insist that mainstream Islam is tolerant and accepting of other religions.....I don't even know what to say about that.

Yes, you have accused me of this before - that I would actually join in with someone ripping off a hijab or that I would stand there and laugh and egg on the harrasser. Because I don't help you with your pitchfork and torch in defending the great religion of Islam - the greatest religion ever! There's no in between for you. Either a person thinks Islam is the greatest religion ever and defends it from any and all reproach or else they're an evil bigoted racist, just waiting for their chance to kill Muslims. Your "Muslims as victims" narrative allows no place for people who would stand up and defend a Muslim being harrassed or attacked, but who refuses to defend their wonky religious beliefs.

Baloney. Some Muslims get harrassed occasionally by idiots, like everyone else in a minority but I highly doubt it's all day, every day, causing them to "snap".